Did Adam and Eve fall?

[sentipente]

God did not THREATEN Adam with death, he said "you WILL surely die" no threat. Statement.

and your saying, Adam wouldn't die beacuse he knew what death is? I know what death is, I will still die.

I don't think I said that. It makes no sense. Threats are statements.

 

[sentipente]

The command to Adam was not to eat from the tree in the middle of the garden. Adam knew that there was a tree in the middle of the garden. I don't see the problem.

But if there was no death he would not know what it means to die or surely die. Why use surely if there was no death, anyhow? I think we missed something.

 

[OnlyBelieve]

Here's another thought with you, God had daily communion with Adam in the Garden. Do you think they did not talk, that God did not teach him things, Also Adam named every animal and bird. If he had no knowedge, how did he speak or remember all he named? He obviously had a vocabulary, given him by God.

 

[redeemedbychrist]

When Adam was in the Garden he had not other text to go by. We have to approach the passage from that perspective. We cannot interpret what happened to Adam in light of how it was understood later. Not if we are going to be true to the Scriptures.

Ahh but you are forgetting that Adam walked daily in the garden in the evening with God. We don't know any of the conversations held but I would imagine that may well have been one of them. The fall of Satan happened before creation.

However that is pure speculation on my part

 

[sentipente]

Do you have any children? I don't but I do work in a nursery. When I discipline a child I give them a warning-

1) Dont do this or this will happen.

Now if that child obeys me and never has to be disciplined they may not fully understand the concept of the punishment for they did not experience it. However they still understand the idea of it broadly.

. . .
I believe the same here in regard to Adam

That explanation does not work for death because he would be dead.

 

[Hentenza]

But if there was no death he would not know what it means to die or surely die. Why use surely if there was no death, anyhow? I think we missed something.

Once he ate from the tree of knowledge he knew what God meant which is why he attempted to 'hide" from God. The command was not to ate with a statement that he would die. Adam does not need to know what death is in order to decide whether to obey God or not.

 

[sentipente]

Here's another thought with you, God had daily communion with Adam in the Garden. Do you think they did not talk, that God did not teach him things, Also Adam named every animal and bird. If he had no knowedge, how did he speak or remember all he named? He obviously had a vocabulary, given him by God.

Why would the vocabulary include death if death was not already a part of life?

 

[sentipente]

Once he ate from the tree of knowledge he knew what God meant which is why he attempted to 'hide" from God. The command was not to ate with a statement that he would die. Adam does not need to know what death is in order to decide whether to obey God or not.

How would hiding prevent him from dying. I think we are trying to make our interpretations make sense instead of looking closely at the story we are interpreting.

 

[OnlyBelieve]

I don't think I said that. It makes no sense. Threats are statements.

If death came as a result of sin threatening Adam with death would have had no effect because he would know what it means to die.

This is your quote,

 

[Hentenza]

Why would the vocabulary include death if death was not already a part of life?

It was part of God's vocabulary.

 

[sentipente]

[/B]

This is your quote,

I should have said "he would NOT know what it means to die." That should have been obvious from the trend of the discussion.

 

[redeemedbychrist]

That explanation does not work for death because he would be dead.

Ahh but it was immediate death it was spiritual death.

 

[sentipente]

It was part of God's vocabulary.

But the word would make no sense to Adam unless he understood the event. There had to be death in the garden. Lions had to eat. And let us not suggest that plants do not die when they are eaten.

 

[OnlyBelieve]

Death Being SEPARATION FROM GOD. I'M SURE Adam would've understood, separtion from God. Seriously, God left him in the Garden.

 

[sentipente]

Ahh but it was immediate death it was spiritual death.

How does spiritual death feel? Well, spirits don't have nervous systems so it can't feel in any particular way. No one is trying to interpret the text. The goal is only to explain what is already believed.

 

[redeemedbychrist]

Lions ate grass or other kinds of vegetation; and the death of plant is different.

 

[redeemedbychrist]

How does spiritual death feel? Well, spirits don't have nervous systems so it can't feel in any particular way. No one is trying to interpret the text. The goal is only to explain what is already believed.

Spiritual death speaks of the main part of the Human being- the Soul. Where as we are all naturally alienated from God from the moment of birth Adam was not. He was in fellowship with God. He was able to talk face to face with God and walk with him. When he disobeyed God he felt shame and hid himself from God. He knew he had done wrong and from that point the relationship was broken.

 

[Hentenza]

But the word would make no sense to Adam unless he understood the event. There had to be death in the garden. Lions had to eat. And let us not suggest that plants do not die when they are eaten.

God gave Adam dominion over the earth and their diet was vegetarian. All animals were herbivores prior to the fall. Plants do die but that was their food.

 

[sentipente]

God gave Adam dominion over the earth and their diet was vegetarian. All animals were herbivores prior to the fall. Plants do die but that was their food.

If all animals were herbivores how did they get teeth designed to tear meat and digestive systems for digesting animal protein?

 

[Hentenza]

If all animals were herbivores how did they get teeth designed to tear meat and digestive systems for digesting animal protein?

Evolution.