Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day?

SuperCow said:

I answered quite plainly. All three of those people had covenants. Adam broke his. The other two did not. How is that relevant? You should learn from @ralliann. I don't know what his point is, but at least he can quote a scripture to support it.

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You agree they had covenants but do you agree they had laws?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Again, that does not negate anything I said nor does that negate that there were laws before Sinai, otherwise you think they were ALL just made up at Sinai and we both know that is NOT the case...

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Yeah it does. The nations were not commanded to keep the
jewish Sabbath, by Ezra, Nehemia, or any other Jewish teachers as Noachide.

ralliann said:

Yeah it does. The nations were not commanded to keep the
jewish Sabbath, by Ezra, Nehemia, or any other Jewish teachers as Noachide.

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Again, in your opinion, was the Sabbath made up at Sinai? Also, was Yeshua lying when He said Shabbat was made for Adam?

tonychanyt said:

I don't think so. Moses gave the Sabbath to the Israelites. Nehemiah 9:

14 You made known to them your holy Sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses.​

Deuteronomy 5:

1 Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the rules that I speak in your hearing today, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 Not with our fathers did the LORD make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today.​

Moses then proceeded to quote the 10 commandments,

12 “‘Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.​

The LORD did not command the Egyptians to keep the Sabbath Day. The Lord commanded the Israelites to keep the Sabbath because he brought them out of Egypt.

I don't think Abraham knew about God forbidding child sacrifice either.

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Agree 100%

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

You agree they had covenants but do you agree they had laws?

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Probably, but my point is that they are not itemized in the Bible until the time of Moses.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Again, in your opinion, was the Sabbath made up at Sinai? Also, was Yeshua lying when He said Shabbat was made for Adam?

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Scripture says it was a sign for the Sinai covenant. Which covenant was 430 years after The covenant of circumcision was given to Abraham.

SuperCow said:

Probably, but my point is that they are not itemized in the Bible until the time of Moses.

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The signs of covenants somewhat are.
Rainbow
Circumcision
Sabbath

ralliann said:

The signs of covenants somewhat are.
Rainbow
Circumcision
Sabbath

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True, but a covenant is an agreement, not a law.

A rainbow is not a law. Noah's covenant was a promise by God. Noah had already fulfilled his part of the deal. A second agreement was made at that time that allowed Noah's descendants to eat meat provided they followed his rules. (No eating blood and no murder.)

Circumcision was a covenant with Abraham. The fact that it was itemized in a covenant proves it was not a law previously. When Abraham accepted the covenant, he and his descendants were bound by it. and it was only for Abraham's descendants. (Or later those that wanted to live among the Israelites.) That's why the apostles in Acts thought it not proper to require it of the gentiles.

The sabbath was not itemized as a law until Moses. There's no evidence that anyone before Moses was required to observe it. (There's no evidence that it was not observed either. It just isn't mentioned between creation and Moses.)

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

You agree they had covenants but do you agree they had laws?

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See my prior post to @ralliann

SuperCow said:

True, but a covenant is an agreement, not a law.

A rainbow is not a law.

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It is a symbol of a distinct covenant period.... the Sinai covenant sign was keeping the 7th day of rest. To place it as law to Abraham is to delete it as a sign for any covenant.

SuperCow said:

Noah's covenant was a promise by God. Noah had already fulfilled his part of the deal.

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Noah's covenant sign is the rainbow. He was the heir of the righteousness by faith. A preacher of righteousness. the law of faith......

SuperCow said:

A second agreement was made at that time that allowed Noah's descendants to eat meat provided they followed his rules. (No eating blood and no murder.)

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No second Covenant made with Noah. We do see two made with Abraham however. One concerning the 4th generation, and the other concerning Abraham and Sarah, bringing forth "kings" Both Circumcised, and uncircumcised.

SuperCow said:

Circumcision was a covenant with Abraham. The fact that it was itemized in a covenant proves it was not a law previously. When Abraham accepted the covenant, he and his descendants were bound by it. and it was only for Abraham's descendants. (Or later those that wanted to live among the Israelites.) That's why the apostles in Acts thought it not proper to require it of the gentiles.

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Two covenants were made with Abraham not one. See the above. Which Paul considers also being the law.
Hearing the law....
Gal 21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

SuperCow said:

The sabbath was not itemized as a law until Moses. There's no evidence that anyone before Moses was required to observe it. (There's no evidence that it was not observed either. It just isn't mentioned between creation and Moses.)

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No, no observance concerning it. Rather it was for a sign of that particular covenant. That is what THE LAW says.....
Not only is there an attempt at shoving things prior to the Sinai covenant into the Sinai covenant, but the same being done after the new covenant, shoving the things of Sinai into it.

We have a new covenant because the promises in covenant made before Sinai, cannot be abolished by Sinai
And since the Sinai covenant cannot abolish the promises, Faith itself was never abolished By Sinai either.
Those things before nor after are abolished by the law. Rather the law works added for Israel were either by faith, or not. As james says a shewing of faith.

ralliann said:

Two covenants were made with Abraham not one. See the above. Which Paul considers also being the law.
Hearing the law....
Gal 21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

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Do you think the descendants of Ishmael and Abraham's 6 other children were bound by circumcision?
It obviously has been practiced by many Arabic nations down to this day, but I don't think it is compulsary.

SuperCow said:

Do you think the descendants of Ishmael and Abraham's 6 other children were bound by circumcision?
It obviously has been practiced by many Arabic nations down to this day, but I don't think it is compulsary.

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No, I am pretty sure Islam does not keep the 8th day circumcision. So where are getting the statement it was practiced by them? The Egyptians also had a circumcision.
But to think about the law of Sinai not abolishing what was before is kind of awesome. Noah his righteousness by faith, not abolished ever. His work of faith, building the Ark. Same with Abraham. His work of faith was going into the land, Sarah, giving her maid to Abraham, She believed along with Abraham what God had told him. Abraham, offering Isaac, a work of faith. Each of these works were not given to any others, they were independant to those individuals. All those promises and works of faith, not abolished by Sinai.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Baptism likened to the works of Noah by faith......
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
A work of faith like Noah....... Faith without works is dead.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
We shew our faith by what we do.
The Lord's supper...we do shew his death until he comes. We shew what we believe in these things...

SuperCow said:

Probably, but my point is that they are not itemized in the Bible until the time of Moses.

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Itemized lol? A law is a law. Does not matter if they are "itemized"...oy vey!
Shabbat Shalom!

ralliann said:

Scripture says it was a sign for the Sinai covenant. Which covenant was 430 years after The covenant of circumcision was given to Abraham.

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But the Sabbath was not somehow invented AT Sinai, it was already in existence before Sinai. It was to be used as a SIGN at Sinai...
Shabbat Shalom!

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

But the Sabbath was not somehow invented AT Sinai, it was already in existence before Sinai.

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Nobody said it was invented at Sinai.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

It was to be used as a SIGN at Sinai...
Shabbat Shalom!

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The form or figure was given at Sinai. Just like the true tabernacle heavenly was in existence, the earthly worldy was given at Sinai.
God finished it all and rested on the seventh day.
Just as we do not come to a mountain that cannot be touched in fear but we come to mount zion. The lamb slain from the foundation of the world. God finished it all in the beginning. We enter into that rest in Christ.

ralliann said:

Nobody said it was invented at Sinai.

The form or figure was given at Sinai. Just like the true tabernacle heavenly was in existence, the earthly worldy was given at Sinai.
God finished it all and rested on the seventh day.

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No, it was to be used as a SIGN in the Mosaic covenant.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

No, it was to be used as a SIGN in the Mosaic covenant.

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It was a figure, like many of the earthly, worldly things. God finished all in the beginning. He created Heaven, and earth, and all in them. Hebrews speaks of an eternal Sabbath, not just a worldly day like the Mosaic Sinai covenant is.

ralliann said:

It was a figure, like many of the earthly, worldly things. God finished all in the beginning. He created Heaven, and earth, and all in them. Hebrews speaks of an eternal Sabbath, not just a worldly day like the Mosaic Sinai covenant is.

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Hebrews does speak of an eternal Sabbath rest that remains for God’s people Hebrews 4:9 NIV and the Greek word in this verse translates into Sabbath-keeping. Hebrews points to the Sabbath commandment for this eternal Sabbath rest, which is on the seventh day. Hebrews 4:4. Hebrews 4:10. Exodus 20:10

God’s rest is different than the Sabbath-rest commandment and in His rest there is no rebellion to obeying God and His commandments. His rest there is just peace and we do that through keeping His commandments. Isaiah 48:18. Sin is the transgression of God’s law Romans 7:7 and there is no peace in sinning.

SabbathBlessings said:

Hebrews does speak of an eternal Sabbath rest that remains for God’s people Hebrews 4:9 NIV and the Greek word in this verse translates into Sabbath-keeping. Hebrews points to the Sabbath commandment for this eternal Sabbath rest, which is on the seventh day. Hebrews 4:4. Hebrews 4:10. Exodus 20:10

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No, Not ex 20. this where we differ (as does scripture). It is speaking of this

De 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.

Joshua will cause them to inherit it.....
De 1:38 But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.
tribes inheriting on the other side of the Jordon could not rest until.....
Deut 3:18 And I commanded you at that time, saying, The LORD your God hath given you this land to possess it: ye shall pass over armed before your brethren the children of Israel, all that are meet for the war.
20 Until the LORD have given rest unto your brethren, as well as unto you, and until they also possess the land which the LORD your God hath given them beyond Jordan: and then shall ye return every man unto his possession, which I have given you.

An inheritance to them in the Abrahamic covenant.
De 31:23 And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.

SabbathBlessings said:

God’s rest is different than the Sabbath-rest commandment and in His rest there is no rebellion to obeying God and His commandments. His rest there is just peace and we do that through keeping His commandments. Isaiah 48:18. Sin is the transgression of God’s law Romans 7:7 and there is no peace in sinning.

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No, it is a rest from war from all their enemies round about. the shadow of the rest in eternal inheritance........In Christ
Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

Not one good thing failed, the Lord had spoken to Israel....
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Jos 23:1 And it came to pass a long time after that the LORD had given rest unto Israel from all their enemies round about, that Joshua waxed old and stricken in age.
2 And Joshua called for all Israel, and for their elders, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers, and said unto them, I am old and stricken in age:

The reality in Christ...

1Cor 14:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

These things were all of the heavens, which God created in the beginning....
Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,