Dicaplining your child?

[do21little]

 I have three very different sons. One is very obedient -5 yrs(most of the time), the other is almost unconsious that he is doing something wrong and does not understand why he gets paddled- 3 yrs, our last is a trouble maker and loves to pick on his brothers- 2 yrs. We use a paddle or belt but only paddle once and not hard. Just enough to sting. Sort of like (when you were younger) when you run through a pasture full of very long grass and it stings your legs as you run past them. I don't want my children to be focusing on how bad the pain is but instead on why they got paddled.We never ever touch the head or tummy or back. We go for the legs but so that we don't struggle to spank in the right place we will just grab a arm and tap it. We spank on the first command because the child is very smart and knows if you give him a mile before spanking them they will take it. Like if you say,"Put that down now, Timmy." Then "I said put it down Now Timmy." Then "If you don't put it down right now I'm going to get the paddle!" Then you get upset and flustered and go get the paddle or use your hand because you can't believe the child would not respect your command. Instead it is simplier to just get the paddle go over to your child (when thy first do the wrong act)in your already calm mood and calm voice and say at the same time you paddle them,"That is a no-no." Then if they are older and can mostly understand your words you can tell them why you paddled them. My 2 year old can understand very clearly why I paddle him. I can tell you that if you paddle them and they don't cry afterwards but are very alert to "oh what just happened?" You did good. Unless they are in a really bad mood(which does happen at least once a day) they should not cry after being paddled(but often they do because either they are embarrassed or tired), but when about to be paddled they might run or do a dance and fight you or scream to avoid the paddle. They are just like we are. When we do something knowing it is wrong(like overeating or driving way over the speed limit,etc.) we hope we can get away with the extra weight or ticket etc punishments. But we know in order to keep our environment peaceful and under control ,most of the time, we need these laws just as our kids need to know there are boundaries.

 

[Beckijhn]

I think discipline has a bad image (that of spanking, crying kids, angry parents). I think discipline is like training. It starts at birth and continues on until that child is grown.

It is taking the time to walk by your child 24/7 and train him/her. As a baby part of it is not allowing the child to control you by crying. You know when there is a need-cry a hurt-cry and a just-want-attention-cry. Then there is the toddle age where you start setting boundaries. Get on your knees and work with your child. Toys are picked up, certain things are not touched, certain drawers and cupboards are not emptied - but some are ~smile~

Kids are smart!!! When they are old enough to follow you around, put them to work. Kids LOVE to work next to you. Give them a spray bottle and rag (vinegar and water is a safe cleaner) and let them clean next to you! Folding washrags is cool!! Doing dishes is the BEST!!! Reward, reward, reward...

Willful disobediance is always unacceptable - even in a toddler. That look that is so funny at 2 is very sullen at 7. Don't laugh at disobedience - at least not in front of the kids LOL.

Redirection in good, but the most important part is that you reward good behavior. If you are ignoring the child and everytime they get into trouble you redirect them, they will see it as getting your attention. They should be able to play on their own without getting into trouble by the time they are 3 or 4 - maybe sooner. But you still have to be walking with them 24/7.

This is all harder if your child is in daycare or school, but not impossible if you start young and stay consistant.

I think the rod does imply spanking. It shouldn't be a last resort (after yelling and threatening and losing your temper) but if used correctly (consistantly and with love) shouldn't be required very often!

 

[minniemouse]

I believe in spanking. I will tell you that right off. I was raised that way and am raising my kids that way. This is not to say I spank them for every little thing. It is a last resort except in major saftey issues where the message must hit home quick. I also do it in a manner where it is of shock value not pain. It hurts their ego more than their bottom. I use time outs, standing in the corner, taking away toys, TV or other things they like first. When all else fails I will spank. I find that the threat of a spanking, in the manner that if you don't start doing what I have asked then you will get a spanking works very well too. I haven't spanked either of my children in over two weeks, so clearly it isn't necessary often.

As others have stated you have to start early so that your children learn as they grow that they need to listen and what type of behavior is expected out of them. When they are young and simply don't know what is right and what is wrong you need to teach them by telling them it is wrong and then redirect them to something that is okay to do. As they begin to understand then you can begin to think of punishment of some sort in response to behaviour they know is not right. And once full understanding is achieved then punishment of some nature is definitely in order when they misbehave. Each parent must decide what is right for them and their child(ren) in the type of punishments doled out.

My girls are very well behaved, that is not to say they never misbehave, but I never hesitate to take them places because they know what is expected out of them and they rarely cause a problem. At home is most often where the rebellion occurs and that is expected. It is part of their learning process.....they need to test limits and boundaries to realize what they can and cannot get away with and learn the consequences to doing thing they aren't supposed to in life.

 

[Eldons Wife]

Does anyone believe in a good old fashioned spanking? I dont mean across the face or legs ,but across the behind? Nobody believes in that anymore ,but boy did all of our parents.

-Eldons Wife

 

[Eldons Wife]

Sorry minnie mouse I didnt see your reply. I too do my children the same way.
-Eldons Wife

 

[Jones]

Thank you all for your replys!!

 

[Evening Mist]

I'll throw my very strong opions out briefly -- even though they are obviously different than many here:

I believe in gentle discipline. That is -- discipline that --
-connects me with my child and does not pit me against him.
-respects his ideas and his body.
-fascilatates self-discipline by helping him to learn constructive self-expression and good problem solving skills

I use these tools:
-redirection
-reasoning
-holding
-natural/logical consequences

This is a terrific article on discipline written by a Christian pediatrician:

http://www.mothering.com/9-0-0/html/9-5-0/9-5-trainup93.shtml



My favorite book on parenting is called "Kids are Worth It" by Barbara Coloroso.

The best book I've read on the effects of authoritarian parenting is called "For Your Own Good" by Alice Miller.

 

[Beckijhn]

I believe in gentle discipline. That is -- discipline that --
-connects me with my child and does not pit me against him.
-respects his ideas and his body.
-fascilatates self-discipline by helping him to learn constructive self-expression and good problem solving skills

I think these are a good idea in general. I've not ever felt that in spanking my child I pit him/her against me or that I've disrespected his/her body. Ideally I help that child to learn self-discipline and thereby learn good problem solving skills, but these are not inherent in small children and the most painless quickest way to deal with disobedience is a switch/swat.

By painless I mean that when the rules are black and white, the child knows the boundaries, the consequences are consistant, and there is not wishy washy-ness in handling issues, the child isn't confused and constantly pushing outward to find the limits/boundaries.

The strong-willed child is a bit more of a challenge (I only have one of those Praise the Lord) and I would suggest listening to speakers like Cynthia Tobias and Dr Dobson. They have a lot of insight - ways to head off the child before it gets to the point of getting swatted. That's another subject all together!

 

[Corky]

Every child is different, what works for one may not work for another

I have one sister 3 years younger than me and when we were kids we were both spanked, however I was probably spanked more severely, for example if my sister did something wrong she might have been put across my parents knee and been given a couple of slaps with a hand, and that worked, hoowever if they did that to me I would have just laughed it off so they, more often than not used a paddle on me (which I think is rare in England, however that's not the point), and very occasionally a slipper.

I personally believe that a paddle is the best way to disciplne a child, hands and arms should be used for holding and hugging, children might get mixed messages otherwise.

I'm not saying always spank a child, there are certainly other ways of discipline (time outs, removing privilages etc.) but keep it as a last resort.

God bless you all

 

[Evening Mist]

An interesting study:

http://www.psc.uc.edu/hs/HS_Spanking Study 10-99.htm

 

[Loki]

A question to those who wholeheartedly support corporal punishment: At what age does it become inappropriate?

 

[Beckijhn]

"An interesting study:

http://www.psc.uc.edu/hs/HS_Spankin...udy 10-99.htm"

I think I would check the references on this study but it does sound like 90% of what I hear from government and college sources these days.  I think it is sad that the world is trying to discredit what the Bible tells us.  I think this is just one of many many ways that satan is trying to chip away the foundation of the Word.  I mean when we can't discipline our children anymore (and they are under government control for meds, behaviours, etc) what is left?  If you have no authority, you have no leadership. 


Did you know that a majority of criminals ate hot dogs as a child? I kid you not. (there was a study on the eating habits of criminals a few years back) So stop feeding your kids hot dogs!!!

Loki what do you mean by inappropriate? I don't have to spank my 14yo and I haven't had to spank my 12yo in about a year. I think if they did something REALLY bad I wouldn't have a problem with it, but they are at the age/maturity that they make good decisions based on prior training.

 

[Loki]

The problem is when people connect two items which correlate and ascribe causation. A majority of criminals probably ate hot dogs because a majority of incarcerated individuals are from the low end of the socioeconomic spectrum, and hot dogs are cheap food.

People with bigger shoe sizes tend to score better on the ACT. That is, if you take the sample from people ages 6-12. There are correlations that can be made about anything, the trick is to get at the true root of the causation of the effect.

 

[Evening Mist]

Yes Loki, yes Becky. I would also be interested in what variables they controled for. Sometime when I have more time, I will look up the original study. One interesting thought would be to do the study and use religiosity as one of the operational variables.

I don't really think the researchers intended it to be "anti-biblical" however. I seriously doubt this is a conspiracy.

 

[Beckijhn]

LOL - no I don't think it's a conspiracy. That makes it pretty sad, though. It's society in general. Most mainstream beliefs are anti-Biblical.

Loki - that's what I meant about the hotdogs - I was joking reading typed comments leaves something to be desired.

I ate hotdogs as often as my folks would let me, and my son loves them, but we weren't/aren't from the low end of the socioeconomic spectrum. It's a normal food for kids. Anything can be twisted and used to prove any point.

 

[Loki]

I guess I should've clarified my original question to imply that I was asking if there was an age at which corporal punishment beceomes inappropriate, or, would you still use corporal punishment if a serious enough offense were committed by a 17 yr old?

 

 

[Corky]

a gut instinct in me says no, but let's wait till I have a 17 year old son/daughter

 

But almost definitely not - I think once entered into their early teens it is too old (13/14ish)

 

[Beckijhn]

That is my answer too! I would say no. I can't imagine spanking my 17yo and if I had to I'd think I missed something in my parenting skills. If my child at 17 needs a spanking it's more than likely something (heart issue) that I'll not be able to teach and have to leave that in God's hands.

On the other hand I know a few that need spanked and even heard people offer to do it!

Honestly I believe (with some exceptions I'm sure) that a child reaching the teen years should be losing the apron strings and stepping out on their own. The parent, having raised the child with good discipline/training from age 1 should be able to safely hang the 'rod' up and not touch it again.

 

[Loki]

I think if they did something REALLY bad I wouldn't have a problem with it,

But 14 is teenage years, and 12 is essentially also.  So if they screwed up badly at that age, corporal punishment is still appropriate, but not three years later.  So, where between 14 and 17 would you say you'd not spank anymore?

 

[Beckijhn]

I can't imagine having to spank my 14yo daughter. I've not had to spank her in years and I think I gave her a 'swat' in passing for lip she gave me a year or two ago. It wasn't a spanking by any means.

Same goes for my 12 year old for the most part. She plays on the edge of attitude with her emotions (my drama queen) but isn't willfully disobedient.

It really has a lot to do with who the child is, how mature the child is, and the situation. I can't really be more specific than that because there is no set of standards that covers every child. You don't know until YOU have a child that is that age and then you can only know about YOUR child.

I'm sorry it's not more clear, that's just the human condition. I will say that if your 17yo isn't trained well enough by 17 then using spanking as a form of discipline will probably only foster anger. There are heart issues (character) to deal with and spanking won't be effective at that age (IMO)