Devils are "right with God?"

[timewerx]

Price is not the only thing you must consider. You also need to fulfill your need for living in a developed society - proximity to work, to school, to hospitals, to dentists, to retirement homes of your parents/grandparents, veterinary... It must be large enough for a family etc. Of course there are cheaper and more expensive things, but even the cheaper ones are quite expensive.

Also, to go for the cheapest option is not always possible. Imagine for example a kid in a school. Everybody around them have mobile phones or clothes as a sign of their social status. Sure, you could buy your children some cheap old dumb phone from 10 years ago, but you would know they would suffer because of it, might be even bullied. You also do not want your children to be the only ones in town who have never been anywhere.

Figures. Ironically, we'll have to make a choice between who you will love more, your kids, wife, mom, dad, or doing what Jesus wants us to do. The wording on the Bible is pretty harsh "unless you hate your children....". I don't think that's literal but you get the point.

It's probably why Apostle Paul said it's better to be single - so you don't have to deal with these dilemmas. Even Jesus said it would be better not to be pregnant. Ultimately better not to have kids as we're probably in the last days and the days are evil.

But I really don't have a say or opinion on this matter because I've never been married, never had kids.

Living in a highly developed society forces you to keep certain standards of living and of acceptable behavior for your family and yourself.

James 4:4 - friendship with the world is hatred towards God.

Can you see the pattern now? What we do to the least of our brethren, we do unto the Lord (Matthew 25:40)

But if you seek friendship with the world, you won't be able to anything about least, thus showing neglect (and hatred) towards God.

I'm not trying to rebuke your or anything because I saw your status as "single" so none of this applies to you. This message is for somebody else.

 

[Strong in Him]

Even Jesus said it would be better not to be pregnant.

No, he didn't.

Ultimately better not to have kids as we're probably in the last days and the days are evil.

We've been in the last days ever since the ascension.
The disciples were certain Jesus was going to return in their lifetime - their "last days" were 2000 years ago.

 

[trophy33]

Figures. Ironically, we'll have to make a choice between who you will love more, your kids, wife, mom, dad, or doing what Jesus wants us to do. The wording on the Bible is pretty harsh "unless you hate your children....". I don't think that's literal but you get the point.

I do not think your interpretation is correct. There is no bible teaching that we must take care about somebody else before our own family. Your implying that Christian parents should ignore needs of their own children and prefer sending money to some foreign people is a bit absurd.

James 4:4 - friendship with the world is hatred towards God.

Can you see the pattern now?

No, I dont. Christian family is not the world we must hate. We are called to take care about those in our care and proximity first. Only if something is left, then the far away ones.

I'm not trying to rebuke your or anything because I saw your status as "single" so none of this applies to you. This message is for somebody else.

If I had a family, my money should go to the quality of their life, first. Bible says that, who does not take care about his own family, is worse than unbelievers.
The same applies to local church first, local charities first, own city before other cities, own country before other countries, own culture before other cultures etc.

Also, there is a good principle - "you must help yourself first to be able to help others". If we did not care about ourselves and our own, but would be sending money to bad countries instead, people here would suffer and were still poor like in those bad countries. To build something, you must save something.

In any case, people in Europe, USA and similar places are sending enormous amounts of various help to more problematic regions, so this conversation is quite hypothetical.

Also, you can come to work to USA or Europe. Developed countries have a lot of legal and illegal immigrants, but many of them do not want to work, they are coming for social benefits or involved in crime, prostitution and similar. So skilled workers are always needed.

 

[timewerx]

I do not think your interpretation is correct. There is no bible teaching that we must take care about somebody else before our own family. Your implying that Christian parents should ignore needs of their own children and prefer sending money to some foreign people is a bit absurd.

I'm not saying to ignore the "needs" of your children.

But there must be a dividing line between "needs", "wants", and "luxuries".

I'm trying to be reasonable. In this age, a cell phone would be considered a need. But to upgrade to the latest cell phone model every year or buy the high end models is obviously an indulgence.

In some situations, a car would be considered a need, but do you have to upgrade every few years to the new model? Or get the high end model, get something way more than what would have been sufficient. Some people justify the fuel economy of newer models or the long term maintenance. I don't think any of those applies to cars. I've been driving different cars, SUVs, and trucks (never mine), old and new for 20 years and realized the "false economy" principle doesn't really apply to cars. And still takes lots of energy to manufacture new vehicles even if parts are extensively recycled.

Jesus said we must deny or even "hate" ourselves as opposed to loving ourselves to have eternal life (John 12:25). But how can we say to God we "hate" ourselves if do everything to make our lives comfortable and going way beyond need? Doesn't make sense.

No, I dont. Christian family is not the world we must hate. We are called to take care about those in our care and proximity first. Only if something is left, then the far away ones.

I think you missed the part of my post when I said, don't take the word "hate" literally. I'll explain it in more detail here:

We should remain a good provider to our own family but again, this should also fit in Christ's teachings. To provide food, shelter, clothing, education, (in the modern age, a decent transport, phone, etc, etc,). Yet, not to indulge, leave some for God's work.

But let's say you hold a high position in a large company and your salary is in the 7 figures. You're rich! But instead of driving around in a Mercedes or Porsche SUV, you still drive around with your 10 year old but otherwise still extremely reliable Honda minivan. Your kids hasn't upgraded their phones in the last 5 years. You still live in the suburbs. Decent and safe with great and friendly neighbors but not in a gated and guarded elite neighborhood for the rich which you could have afforded with your salary. And then haven't been to Paris yet nor Italy, nor Fiji and other exotic destinations around the world. Hasn't gone out of states much except for business travels by yourself.

It's a decent life, safe, easy and comfortable enough. A quality of life many would die for........ You could have afforded a much more expensive quality of life yet you chose not to so you'll have money left from your big salary to give to humanitarian work.

Do you think your kids and wife would love you for your austerity in spending because you're spending the rest of your money in humanitarian work? Unless their hearts are into it, they will most likely hate you.

Even your work colleagues will probably hate you for your lifestyle because by your way of life, you make them look bad or evil.

I think this is what Jesus meant about "hate" more or less. Because in other verses, it is said, a "Christian" would be hated. A Christian is NOT hateful by nature but many would hate them for them for their unorthodox or even unnatural behavior that doesn't fit the standards of this unGodly society.

You will be hated as a Christian as opposed to being popular. This is how you'll become persecuted or bullied. You don't get bullied for being popular right? A Christian should limit their efforts to "fit into" society. If it makes them compromise Christian values, then it's time to stop.

Reference verses: Luke 6:22 and Luke 6:26.

Sure, you could buy your children some cheap old dumb phone from 10 years ago, but you would know they would suffer because of it, might be even bullied.

You wrote the quote above in an earlier post.

My point exactly. You will be persecuted (or bullied) for doing the right thing. Not just your kids but if parents saw what you're doing, you will be persecuted too as a parent. We are to expect this as a Christians.

Now if other Christians are beginning to persecute us as well, it can happen if the Christian isn't knowledgeable of Christ's teachings. They know more about the false teachings of this world than the teachings of Christ.

 

[Aaron112]

A billionaire wants to hire someone.
He has almost unlimited resources for this person and their family.
He says I will take care of your family;
you, go , where you do not know yet, and do as I say.

 

[trophy33]

I'm not saying to ignore the "needs" of your children.

But there must be a dividing line between "needs", "wants", and "luxuries".

I'm trying to be reasonable. In this age, a cell phone would be considered a need. But to upgrade to the latest cell phone model every year or buy the high end models is obviously an indulgence.

In some situations, a car would be considered a need, but do you have to upgrade every few years to the new model? Or get the high end model, get something way more than what would have been sufficient. Some people justify the fuel economy of newer models or the long term maintenance. I don't think any of those applies to cars. I've been driving different cars, SUVs, and trucks (never mine), old and new for 20 years and realized the "false economy" principle doesn't really apply to cars. And still takes lots of energy to manufacture new vehicles even if parts are extensively recycled.

Jesus said we must deny or even "hate" ourselves as opposed to loving ourselves to have eternal life (John 12:25). But how can we say to God we "hate" ourselves if do everything to make our lives comfortable and going way beyond need? Doesn't make sense.



I think you missed the part of my post when I said, don't take the word "hate" literally. I'll explain it in more detail here:

We should remain a good provider to our own family but again, this should also fit in Christ's teachings. To provide food, shelter, clothing, education, (in the modern age, a decent transport, phone, etc, etc,). Yet, not to indulge, leave some for God's work.

But let's say you hold a high position in a large company and your salary is in the 7 figures. You're rich! But instead of driving around in a Mercedes or Porsche SUV, you still drive around with your 10 year old but otherwise still extremely reliable Honda minivan. Your kids hasn't upgraded their phones in the last 5 years. You still live in the suburbs. Decent and safe with great and friendly neighbors but not in a gated and guarded elite neighborhood for the rich which you could have afforded with your salary. And then haven't been to Paris yet nor Italy, nor Fiji and other exotic destinations around the world. Hasn't gone out of states much except for business travels by yourself.

It's a decent life, safe, easy and comfortable enough. A quality of life many would die for........ You could have afforded a much more expensive quality of life yet you chose not to so you'll have money left from your big salary to give to humanitarian work.

Do you think your kids and wife would love you for your austerity in spending because you're spending the rest of your money in humanitarian work? Unless their hearts are into it, they will most likely hate you.

Even your work colleagues will probably hate you for your lifestyle because by your way of life, you make them look bad or evil.

I think this is what Jesus meant about "hate" more or less. Because in other verses, it is said, a "Christian" would be hated. A Christian is NOT hateful by nature but many would hate them for them for their unorthodox or even unnatural behavior that doesn't fit the standards of this unGodly society.

You will be hated as a Christian as opposed to being popular. This is how you'll become persecuted or bullied. You don't get bullied for being popular right? A Christian should limit their efforts to "fit into" society. If it makes them compromise Christian values, then it's time to stop.

Reference verses: Luke 6:22 and Luke 6:26.



You wrote the quote above in an earlier post.

My point exactly. You will be persecuted (or bullied) for doing the right thing. Not just your kids but if parents saw what you're doing, you will be persecuted too as a parent. We are to expect this as a Christians.

Now if other Christians are beginning to persecute us as well, it can happen if the Christian isn't knowledgeable of Christ's teachings. They know more about the false teachings of this world than the teachings of Christ.

How developed consumer economies work - If everybody was buying only basic things and services (which is what happens during recessions), unemployment would be high and poverty too, GDP low and human development too. So, by consuming, you actually help others to have a job/money/not being poor. Money just rotate between subjects, they are not being thrown to a trash bin. Even super rich people do not have their money stacked under their bed, but in various companies, projects, investments, bank accounts etc. That means those money keep working among people and for people.

The richness of a country is not in the amount of money (printed out of the thin air, anyway), but in economic activity those money represent. As there is no gold standard, the value of money is covered by GDP. Without GDP (economic activity), money are just useless papers. Even oil, gas, gold or whatever is useless, without being used for something.
From your example - the high management travelling to Paris with his family helps the economy by doing so. Also by buying new, more advanced car or phone. That means that people working in service sector or on new things have jobs, salaries and can live a good life, too.

And here lies also the problem with helping bad countries financially - we can send money (as papers and digital numbers), feed them with food and similar, but we cannot send the economic activity which is what is lacking, there. We cannot send good people, education, European philosophies, work ethic, desire for inventions etc. It must come from the poor nation itself, from the local government creating schools, roads, high speed internet in all places, manufacturing jobs, science projects, inviting foreign investors and tourists... and from local people wanting it, being involved in it and consuming it.

Edit: youtube just recommended this video to me, you may find it informative, its about situation in Austria/Germany:

 

[John Helpher]

A) is that correct theology?

No.

B) Is that what most Christian churches are like today, just making up their own theology,

When it comes to money? Heck yeah. Most humans make up what they want to hear.

Is that really what Christianity has devolved into?

Yeah, but it's not that surprising. It happened with the children of Israel in the old testament, it happened with the pharisees in the new testament, and it's happening now with professing Christians.

2) Here is another gem this guy bernard jordan was preaching out of his church: That Christians should do mean, immoral things to people who don't tithe to a church. Is that what Christian ministers are teaching their congregations in church?

It's pretty much what the entire world is preaching. If you don't pay, people will do mean things to you, even if it's just to let you starve on the street in the cold.

I could to assist poor people, but hearing that kind of vile, and frankly irresponsible, and reprehensible, rhetoric coming from the pulpit makes me feel like I should never give a penny to a church again

So long as you don't use it as an excuse to not give to the poor, again. See, if you're paying the church to do your good works for you, and decide you don't like the way they're doing it, then you're responsible to start doing your own good works.

A) is that the kind of reprehensible morality that is being taught in Christian churches today?

Sure, people use religion to make money. They do the same thing with politics, entertainment, family, and sex. The whole world revolves around getting more money. It's fine to say that the Christians should be better (because they really should be) but you just become a hypocrite unless you have a plan to be better than them.

Again, what they are doing and preaching in that church completely CONTRADICTS what Jesus taught.

Yeah, you'll find they do that with just about all of his teachings.

 

[Lost Witness]

The LORD wants us to prosper...
In the Spirit, not worldly prosperity.
We're to take what we're blessed with to bless others.
We tithe to a church because a workman is worthy of his wages. That's why we tithe but the LORD wants us to be prosperous of the spirit.
Worldly prosperity brings distractions and snares.

 

[ARBITER01]

As a good, loving, moral person coming from being an agnostic and actually trying to give Christianity a chance, I'm here asking, Is this normal for Christian churches?

What do you think? Do you think that was an actual church or a front for money making?

 

[Aaron112]

The bible warns us satan as antichrist will come 6th trump to Jerusalem.
Ephesians chapter 6 tells Christian people to have on gospel armour.
Lot of Christian people today are biblically illiterate. They will worship antichrist near future. Revelation chapter 13 to document.

Second thessalonians chapter 2 . God is putting strong delusions on those who love not the truth. They will worship antichrist.
Rejecting the bible is one way to worship antichrist near future.
Listening to misguided preachers is another way to worship antichrist near future.

There are demons or preachers influenced by them ,
"false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their actions."