Devil's Advocate/What If... the Rapture has already happened... ?

DreamerOfTheHeart

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Now let me begin by saying I know there is a verse condemning this viewpoint. However, we also know Jesus can not come before the anti=christ has been discovered... which means no one can ever tell anyone if Jesus is coming, if he really is coming. (Or if he really came.)

Step back for a minute and consider the logic of that. Pay close attention to what I am about to say...

I will respond to patient, intelligent comments with the mystery answered...

(And no, I am definitely not Jesus, if that is what u think spells this out...)

Regards my friend,
Drew
 

Revealing Times

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Then I would be in Heaven and I am not. And NO...The Anti-Christ doesn't have to be "DISCOVERED" or REVEALED you and others just see into it what you think it means because of a bad KJV translation. The FIRST SEVEN English translations had the DEPARTURE not the falling away.

The Church is what is being spoken of in 2 Thess. 2, not THE FAITH because the very first verse tells us that, its about the GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO Christ Jesus. Thus its the DEPARTURE of the Church that happens before the Anti-Christ is REVEALED or COMES FORTH.

You and and others can keep going with the KJV, I will go with the truth. No men are above Gods Word.
 
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seventysevens

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What If
2 Chron 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Then I would be in Heaven and I am not. And NO...The Anti-Christ doesn't have to be "DISCOVERED" or REVEALED you and others just into it what you think it means because of a bad KJV translation. The FIRST SEVEN English translations had the DEPARTURE not the falling away.

The Church is what is being spoken of in 2 Thess. 2, not THE FAITH because the very first verse tells us that, its about the GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO Christ Jesus. Thus its the DEPARTURE of the Church that happens before the Anti-Christ is REVEALED or COMES FORTH.

You and and others can keep going with the KJV, I will go with the truth. No men are above Gods Word.

Fair enough point... only I rely on lexicons my own self -- get back to the true meaning of a word as it was found in the scrolls or handed down.

KJV is useful, so is NIV, and NKJV...

But for hardest questions you must do etymology search for word in the native aramic, hebew, greek, etc.

Few try so hard to be accurate as this.

I would hope you might try this formula someday.
 
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BABerean2

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Now let me begin by saying I know there is a verse condemning this viewpoint.

It is a lot more than one verse.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
2Th 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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It is a lot more than one verse.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
2Th 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

.

Okay, I agree to disagree.
 
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mark kennedy

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Now let me begin by saying I know there is a verse condemning this viewpoint. However, we also know Jesus can not come before the anti=christ has been discovered... which means no one can ever tell anyone if Jesus is coming, if he really is coming. (Or if he really came.)

Step back for a minute and consider the logic of that. Pay close attention to what I am about to say...

I will respond to patient, intelligent comments with the mystery answered...

(And no, I am definitely not Jesus, if that is what u think spells this out...)

Regards my friend,
Drew
I'm not sure what your getting at here Drew. Jesus returning is a promise of the gospel, Paul told us that he will not return before the Antichrist is revealed (see 2 Thessalonians 2), it's not something the New Testament dwells on but there is a clear point of doctrine related to this. I would advise caution when engaging in end times discussions that drift into essential doctrine, it can be tricky.

If you read the Upper Room Discourse, John describes the details for three chapters. One key promise made to the Apostles then was that he would return, sending the Holy Spirit in his stead until then. That's essential doctrine Drew, like I said, I would advise caution while you explore the subject matter.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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I'm not sure what your getting at here Drew. Jesus returning is a promise of the gospel, Paul told us that he will not return before the Antichrist is revealed (see 2 Thessalonians 2), it's not something the New Testament dwells on but there is a clear point of doctrine related to this. I would advise caution when engaging in end times discussions that drift into essential doctrine, it can be tricky.

If you read the Upper Room Discourse, John describes the details for three chapters. One key promise made to the Apostles then was that he would return, sending the Holy Spirit in his stead until then. That's essential doctrine Drew, like I said, I would advise caution while you explore the subject matter.

Grace and peace,
Mark

What about Hitler? Can there be a worse man?
 
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BABerean2

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What about Hitler? Can there be a worse man?

Joseph Stalin and Mao made Hitler look like a choir boy, if you consider the number of people they had murdered.

So, yes, there can be a worse man.

What if Stalin or Mao were able to rule the whole world?


.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Sure, some of the people who worked for him were worse, ever heard of Josef Mengele?

Josef didn't cause the death of six million Jews. Hitler did.

Josef was, however, a very bad person.

Even a very, very bad person.

But, I believe Hitler was even more evil then Josef.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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I'm not sure what your getting at here Drew. Jesus returning is a promise of the gospel, Paul told us that he will not return before the Antichrist is revealed (see 2 Thessalonians 2), it's not something the New Testament dwells on but there is a clear point of doctrine related to this. I would advise caution when engaging in end times discussions that drift into essential doctrine, it can be tricky.

If you read the Upper Room Discourse, John describes the details for three chapters. One key promise made to the Apostles then was that he would return, sending the Holy Spirit in his stead until then. That's essential doctrine Drew, like I said, I would advise caution while you explore the subject matter.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Oh I am totally cautious.

But, I am just saying What If Hitler was the anti-christ?

Can you entertain that possibility for one hour?

How about thirty minutes?
 
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Douggg

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Now let me begin by saying I know there is a verse condemning this viewpoint. However, we also know Jesus can not come before the anti=christ has been discovered... which means no one can ever tell anyone if Jesus is coming, if he really is coming. (Or if he really came.)

Step back for a minute and consider the logic of that. Pay close attention to what I am about to say...

I will respond to patient, intelligent comments with the mystery answered...

(And no, I am definitely not Jesus, if that is what u think spells this out...)

Regards my friend,
Drew
Drew, I am pretty sure that God has everything figured out. I think I would leave it up to Him, if I were you. Just follow the instructions in Luke 21:34-36.

Revelation 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
 
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Revealing Times

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Fair enough point... only I rely on lexicons my own self -- get back to the true meaning of a word as it was found in the scrolls or handed down.

KJV is useful, so is NIV, and NKJV...

But for hardest questions you must do etymology search for word in the native aramic, hebew, greek, etc.

Few try so hard to be accurate as this.

I would hope you might try this formula someday.
Well you might like this site then. It has the original Hebrew, then the English Hebrew Massoretic and the KJV all side by side.Pretty cool site for a deep study.

Daniel 9 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study
 
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Revealing Times

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Oh I am totally cautious.

But, I am just saying What If Hitler was the anti-christ?

Can you entertain that possibility for one hour?

How about thirty minutes?
Drew, you are missing a very important KEY ASPECT as pertaining to when Jesus can and will return.

There is, and was no way that Jesus could return before Israel was reborn as a nation. This is both scriptural and factual. So Hitler could not have been the Anti-Christ, nor could have anyone that lived before him. I consider myself and expert (via its my calling by God) on the Anti-Christ, the Seven Headed Beast, Revelation, Daniel etc. prophecy. It is my heart so to speak.

Drew the Seven Headed Beast of Rev. 13 could not be completed until there was an Israel back in the land to Conquer. You see all of the first Six Beasts Conquered, Enslaved or Ruled Israel in the Mediterranean Sea Region at one time or the other. We had Egypt, Assyria, then from DANIEL ON we had Babylon, Persia, Greece and of course Rome. Well Rome suffered the MORTAL HEAD WOUND when it dispersed Israel all over the world circa 70-125 AD. The BEAST SYSTEM was no more, it was dead, there can be NO BEAST with NO ISRAEL to Beast over.

Thus we get a Statue with a 2000 year skip, a Beast system with a 2000 year skip, because the picture being shown in both cases is of Israel in juxtaposition to all of these things, and God saw Israel as DEAD MEN'S BONES for almost 2000 years, fulfilling the prophecy of Ezekiel's Valley of Dry Bones. Thus Israel had to be reborn before the Beast/Anti-Christ could come onto the world stage. Also there had to be a European Power back in the region because this man arises out of the Fourth Beasts Head Dan. ch. 7 (territory). But he must needs be born in one of the Four Generals territories also as Dan. ch. 8 says, (only Greece fits) so that means he must be born at the same time in both places, but how can this be? Well Greece is in the European Union, RIDDLE SOLVED. Since many Turks are born in Greece this also solves the riddle in Isaiah ch. 10, where it calls the Anti-Christ an Assyrian.

Hitler could not be the Anti-Christ. There are more indications that we are at that crossroads now, but couldn't have been there 50 years ago or even 25 years ago.

Major clues as to when the time of the Anti-Christ will be at hand:

1. Global trade is a must, we live at a globalization peak, 50 years ago not so much.
2. 25-50 years ago people couldn't be tacked in real time, now they can tack us in real time.
3. We have Israel in the land and a European Union has come to power.
4. We have depravity everywhere being accepted as normal.
5. Knowledge is at its zenith, the scientific things coming upon us are scary.
6. Travel is at its zenith just like Daniel predicted would be the case.
7. The world has become course and evil, even downright nutty.
8. The Gospel has been preached unto all the world via TV, it goes everywhere.
9. Jerusalem is a major stumbling block, just like Zechariah predicted.
10. We just need the Church to DEPART and then the Anti-Christ will come forth. I think I know who he is, but I don't put that out on front street because its just conjecture of course.

So some MAJOR CLUES: of who he is....

1. Hes born in Greece.
2. Hes an Atheist.
3. He has to be of Turkish descent.
4. He will eventually come to power as the European President.
5. He will come to power via PEACE.
 
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phydaux

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Oh I am totally cautious.

But, I am just saying What If Hitler was the anti-christ?

Can you entertain that possibility for one hour?

How about thirty minutes?


Hour? No.

Thirty Minutes? Nope.

Ten Seconds? OK. Here goes:

"Was Hitler the antichrist? Jesus is suppose to return and throw the antichrist into the Lake of Fire. Hitler is dead, and Jesus hasn't returned yet. So Hilter clearly wasn't the antichrist."

How was that?

Sorry for the snarkyness. Well.. No, not really. But it seems like you're just trolling & attention seeking. If you have a real question then we'd love to discuss it with you. If you just want to play "What if rainwater was beer?" then I'm sure you can find an eight year-old somewhere who is willing to indulge you.
 
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