Devil's Advocate/What If... the Rapture has already happened... ?

phydaux

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So some MAJOR CLUES: of who he is....

1. Hes born in Greece.
2. Hes an Atheist.
3. He has to be of Turkish descent.
4. He will eventually come to power as the European President.
5. He will come to power via PEACE.

1. Reference please?
2. Reference please?
3. Reference please?
4. I know the reference. Hmmmm... Meh.
5. Correct.
 
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phydaux

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Regardless, Drew, the answer to your question is in 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2.

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition


The rapture can not occur until the Man of Sin is revealed.

6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

Something is restraining Man of Sin from being revealed.

7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit is what is restraining the revelation of the Man of Sin. The Man of Sin can't be revealed until the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way. We believers are the temple of the Holy Spirit. So this is a reference to the rapture of the believers.

The antichrist makes peace in order to rise to power. He can't rise to power until he is revealed. He can't be revealed until after the rapture of the church.
 
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phydaux

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By the way, the antichrist isn't going to be some kind of silent movie villain with a black top hat, a Spock beard, and a Rollie Fingers mustache. He is going to be highly charismatic, and his rise to power will be applauded by all the "good" people who dwell on the earth.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Hour? No.

Thirty Minutes? Nope.

Ten Seconds? OK. Here goes:

"Was Hitler the antichrist? Jesus is suppose to return and throw the antichrist into the Lake of Fire. Hitler is dead, and Jesus hasn't returned yet. So Hilter clearly wasn't the antichrist."

How was that?

Sorry for the snarkyness. Well.. No, not really. But it seems like you're just trolling & attention seeking. If you have a real question then we'd love to discuss it with you. If you just want to play "What if rainwater was beer?" then I'm sure you can find an eight year-old somewhere who is willing to indulge you.

Hitler could be resurrected from the dead, which everyone is. On earth, as Scripture says of the CITY in Revelation.

I am in The City.

Are you?
 
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Douggg

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Hitler could be resurrected from the dead, which everyone is. On earth, as Scripture says of the CITY in Revelation.

I am in The City.

Are you?
Drew, many years ago, I once considered the possibility of Hitler being cloned biologically when they first came out with dolly the sheep. But the reason a Hitler cloned version can not be the person who become the Antichrist - is the person has to be Jew. To be a Jew the person's mother has to be Jew - which eliminates the cloned idea.

If you think of the Antichrist in the single dimension of being the world's most evil dictator - which most everyone does - you are going to miss out on solving the mystery of the person.

Becoming the Antichrist is just one of the roles that the person goes through. It is not the end role of being the beast. What you need to consider is Anti.....Christ as instead of and against Christ, the true Christ - Jesus. So we look at the bible to find out what is "Christ".

In John 12:13 and Mark 15:32, "Christ" is the King of Israel. He is a promised great King that God would send to be the ultimate King of Israel. Jesus is the true Christ, but his own people rejected Him.

So the person who becomes the Antichrist, whoever it is, has got be qualified to be perceived as being the promised messiah - the Christ - the promised King of Israel. Which first and foremost, the person has to be a Jew, because the person has to be descended from King David.

That eliminates Hitler - in any form.

______________________________________________________________

If I were you, I would watch the EU, because before the person becomes the role of being the Antichrist, he should come to the forefront as leader of the EU - in the role of the little horn.

Macron was a possibility, but he is not a Jew. So that eliminates him. Being a Jew is the first criteria.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Drew, you are missing a very important KEY ASPECT as pertaining to when Jesus can and will return.

There is, and was no way that Jesus could return before Israel was reborn as a nation. This is both scriptural and factual. So Hitler could not have been the Anti-Christ, nor could have anyone that lived before him. I consider myself and expert (via its my calling by God) on the Anti-Christ, the Seven Headed Beast, Revelation, Daniel etc. prophecy. It is my heart so to speak.

Drew the Seven Headed Beast of Rev. 13 could not be completed until there was an Israel back in the land to Conquer. You see all of the first Six Beasts Conquered, Enslaved or Ruled Israel in the Mediterranean Sea Region at one time or the other. We had Egypt, Assyria, then from DANIEL ON we had Babylon, Persia, Greece and of course Rome. Well Rome suffered the MORTAL HEAD WOUND when it dispersed Israel all over the world circa 70-125 AD. The BEAST SYSTEM was no more, it was dead, there can be NO BEAST with NO ISRAEL to Beast over.

Thus we get a Statue with a 2000 year skip, a Beast system with a 2000 year skip, because the picture being shown in both cases is of Israel in juxtaposition to all of these things, and God saw Israel as DEAD MEN'S BONES for almost 2000 years, fulfilling the prophecy of Ezekiel's Valley of Dry Bones. Thus Israel had to be reborn before the Beast/Anti-Christ could come onto the world stage. Also there had to be a European Power back in the region because this man arises out of the Fourth Beasts Head Dan. ch. 7 (territory). But he must needs be born in one of the Four Generals territories also as Dan. ch. 8 says, (only Greece fits) so that means he must be born at the same time in both places, but how can this be? Well Greece is in the European Union, RIDDLE SOLVED. Since many Turks are born in Greece this also solves the riddle in Isaiah ch. 10, where it calls the Anti-Christ an Assyrian.

Hitler could not be the Anti-Christ. There are more indications that we are at that crossroads now, but couldn't have been there 50 years ago or even 25 years ago.

Major clues as to when the time of the Anti-Christ will be at hand:

1. Global trade is a must, we live at a globalization peak, 50 years ago not so much.
2. 25-50 years ago people couldn't be tacked in real time, now they can tack us in real time.
3. We have Israel in the land and a European Union has come to power.
4. We have depravity everywhere being accepted as normal.
5. Knowledge is at its zenith, the scientific things coming upon us are scary.
6. Travel is at its zenith just like Daniel predicted would be the case.
7. The world has become course and evil, even downright nutty.
8. The Gospel has been preached unto all the world via TV, it goes everywhere.
9. Jerusalem is a major stumbling block, just like Zechariah predicted.
10. We just need the Church to DEPART and then the Anti-Christ will come forth. I think I know who he is, but I don't put that out on front street because its just conjecture of course.

So some MAJOR CLUES: of who he is....

1. Hes born in Greece.
2. Hes an Atheist.
3. He has to be of Turkish descent.
4. He will eventually come to power as the European President.
5. He will come to power via PEACE.


What about Trump? He looks and acts just like Nero. And he was born just after Hitler killed himself. One life, the resurrection. With likely almost no exceptions.

But, otherwise, who do you think it is? A turk in the EU? You do not have anybody in mind for that?
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Drew, I am pretty sure that God has everything figured out. I think I would leave it up to Him, if I were you. Just follow the instructions in Luke 21:34-36.

Revelation 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

This is a good stance to take, you have.

Sorry for the testing. ;-)
 
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Revealing Times

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1. Reference please?
2. Reference please?
3. Reference please?
4. I know the reference. Hmmmm... Meh.
5. Correct.
I gave you the references, though I forgot to say Daniel 8 I went back and added it before I even replied here.

1.) So Daniel 8 says hes born in Greece.
2.) Daniel 7 says hes born in Europe via the Fourth Beast
3.) Isaiah chapter 10 along with a few other chapters calls the Anti-Christ...THE ASSYRIAN.
4.) Has to be factual according to the scriptures. If you are on an Islam kick you've been had.

My blog on this is pretty easy to follow. BELOW:

The Birth Place of the Anti-Christ Revealed

Isaiah says the Anti-Christ is an Assyrian.The Anti-Christ is said to come to power via the fourth beast in the last days per Daniel Chapter Seven. The Anti-Christ is also said to arise out of the Grecian empire in the last days, so how do we reconcile these different understandings ?

This is established fairly easily, Daniel did say the understandings would be bound up until the end. The Anti-Christ in Daniel chapters seven and eight is shown, if read properly, to arise out of two kingdoms at once, but how can this be ?

Daniel chapter seven is fairly straightforward, we understand this to be about the four beast systems, the fourth beast is where the little horn (Anti-Christ) will arise out of, most everyone understands the fourth beast to have been Rome, but in the last days/end times this has to be the European Union which gives rise to the Little Horn or the fifth Beast.

Now Daniel chapter eight is explained in detail by Gabriel the angel, was the he goat (Alexander the Great) conquering Persia ( the Ram ) and Gabriel interpreted this dream for Daniel.
Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

We should note, this is speaking of the end time, it is not speaking of Antiochus Epiphanes who came before Jesus was even born. The word Indignation means: ( Greek Word za'am meaning Gods Fury at Sin) so at the Last End of Indignation means right before Gods Judgment of Sin/Vials or Bowls of Gods Wrath (Revelation ch 16).

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. (The Four Generals that stood up in Alexanders stead were Ptolemy , Seleucus , Cassander and Lysimachus.)

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

The above is clearly speaking about the end times/last days when the sins have come full/ bowls of Gods wrath, a fierce king shall arise out of one of the four kingdoms that stood up in Alexander the Greats Stead, speaking dark sentences (understanding Riddles and conundrums) and he comes to power.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: (Satan is Lord of this world) and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, (he claims to Be God) and by peace shall destroy many:(Through a Peace treaty he deceives many) he shall also stand up against the Prince (Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Jesus destroys the Anti-Christ his kings and their armies without hand (with the Sword of the Spirit/Holy Spirit) by the countenance of his coming, Amen. This guy magnifies himself and says in the temple of God, I am God !!

Now, so many people say this is about Antiochus, so I always feel the need to prove that this is about the end times, when Gods wrath is come full. This is about the little horn/Anti-Christ. And he arises out of their kingdom in the last days, so in essence he arises out of one of the Four Generals kingdoms in the last days, but which one ? Well, since the Anti-Christ arises out of the fourth beast also, then this other Kingdom has to lie within the borders of the European Union. Only Cassander's kingdom of Greece is in the European Union !!

The "Assyrian" arising from Greece would be very, very plausible since Greece shares a border with Turkey, and many, many Turks live in Greece, so the Assyrian Anti-Christ is born in Greece, and comes to power in Greece, then in the European Union. But what does John say in Revelation about the Beast that arises out of the Sea ? By the way, he was on Patmos, a small Greek Island when he saw this vision.

Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The Main body is described by John as like a leopard !!

Put it all together, the "Assyrian" Anti-Christ is born in Greece, of Turkish parents or grandparents , he comes to power in the European Union.

This is where the Anti-Christ is from.
 
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Revealing Times

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What about Trump? He looks and acts just like Nero. And he was born just after Hitler killed himself. One life, the resurrection. With likely almost no exceptions.

But, otherwise, who do you think it is? A turk in the EU? You do not have anybody in mind for that?
He has to be born in Greece. So nix Obama and Trump.

And yes I have an idea, but hes not supposed to be revealed until after the Rapture, so its not really in Gods plans to make him known yet. However, IF hes is born in Greece and IF hes a President there before he becomes a president in the E.U. and IF hes an Atheist, and IF hes of Turkish descent it should be easy to figure out who he is.

But I do not make any claims !!!
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Hour? No.

Thirty Minutes? Nope.

Ten Seconds? OK. Here goes:

"Was Hitler the antichrist? Jesus is suppose to return and throw the antichrist into the Lake of Fire. Hitler is dead, and Jesus hasn't returned yet. So Hilter clearly wasn't the antichrist."

How was that?

Sorry for the snarkyness. Well.. No, not really. But it seems like you're just trolling & attention seeking. If you have a real question then we'd love to discuss it with you. If you just want to play "What if rainwater was beer?" then I'm sure you can find an eight year-old somewhere who is willing to indulge you.

No, I know details no one else knows.

Trolling would be a waste of my time. I am looking for friends, though. But, not enemies.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Drew, many years ago, I once considered the possibility of Hitler being cloned biologically when they first came out with dolly the sheep. But the reason a Hitler cloned version can not be the person who become the Antichrist - is the person has to be Jew. To be a Jew the person's mother has to be Jew - which eliminates the cloned idea.

If you think of the Antichrist in the single dimension of being the world's most evil dictator - which most everyone does - you are going to miss out on solving the mystery of the person.

Becoming the Antichrist is just one of the roles that the person goes through. It is not the end role of being the beast. What you need to consider is Anti.....Christ as instead of and against Christ, the true Christ - Jesus. So we look at the bible to find out what is "Christ".

In John 12:13 and Mark 15:32, "Christ" is the King of Israel. He is a promised great King that God would send to be the ultimate King of Israel. Jesus is the true Christ, but his own people rejected Him.

So the person who becomes the Antichrist, whoever it is, has got be qualified to be perceived as being the promised messiah - the Christ - the promised King of Israel. Which first and foremost, the person has to be a Jew, because the person has to be descended from King David.

That eliminates Hitler - in any form.

______________________________________________________________

If I were you, I would watch the EU, because before the person becomes the role of being the Antichrist, he should come to the forefront as leader of the EU - in the role of the little horn.

Macron was a possibility, but he is not a Jew. So that eliminates him. Being a Jew is the first criteria.

My response... let your yes' be yes and your nos' be no, as anything else is maybe from the evil one.

My answer, therefore is: maybe. And, maybe not.


If you are willing to swear by Heaven your view is correct, you may persuade me.

Say, "I swear by heaven xyz [explaining your view]", and I may agree with you.

Fair enough?

I want friends, not enemies.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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He has to be born in Greece. So nix Obama and Trump.

And yes I have an idea, but hes not supposed to be revealed until after the Rapture, so its not really in Gods plans to make him known yet. However, IF hes is born in Greece and IF hes a President there before he becomes a president in the E.U. and IF hes an Atheist, and IF hes of Turkish descent it should be easy to figure out who he is.

But I do not make any claims !!!

Say, "I swear by Heaven he has to be from Greece", and I will believe he is from Greece.

Otherwise, the WWII CI program left a false D=Day entry route via Greece. Project Mincemeat. You can google...
 
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Douggg

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I want friends, not enemies.
What about wanting the truth as your priority?

If you are willing to swear by Heaven your view is correct, you may persuade me.
That would fall into the category of being a foolish test. Not going to happen.

You are empowered by free will to be persuaded or not be persuaded of whatever you want to believe or not believe. But it doesn't move me that I engage with any foolish test that you come up with. That would be super stupid on my part, to do so. Not going to happen.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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What about wanting the truth as your priority?

That would fall into the category of being a foolish test. Not going to happen.

You are empowered by free will to be persuaded or not be persuaded of whatever you want to believe or not believe. But it doesn't move me that I engage with any foolish test that you come up with. That would be super stupid on my part, to do so. Not going to happen.

I can swear many things, but okay, so you don't really believe in what you are saying... to the degree that you are willing to even pinky swear on its' veracity.

Not trying to give you a hard time, just doing my job for your benefit...

I can swear by Heaven Trump is Nero incarnated. And can do so with many aspects of Revelation and current times and events.

But I get this from divine guidance.

I swear God gives me this information.
 
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Revealing Times

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Say, "I swear by Heaven he has to be from Greece", and I will believe he is from Greece.

Otherwise, the WWII CI program left a false D=Day entry route via Greece. Project Mincemeat. You can google...
You seem you be nothing but a troll, I usually IGNORE TROLLS. You are on the cusp.
 
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phydaux

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No, I know details no one else knows.

Trolling would be a waste of my time. I am looking for friends, though. But, not enemies.

You are CLEARLY trolling and attention seeking.
 
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phydaux

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Say, "I swear by Heaven he has to be from Greece", and I will believe he is from Greece.

Otherwise, the WWII CI program left a false D=Day entry route via Greece. Project Mincemeat. You can google...

I happen to have done a fair bit of reading regarding D-Day, and it so happens I am well aware of Operation Mincemeat.

At this point I have to ask you, are there some meds you are suppose to be taking that you have run out of? I really think you need to make an appointment to see your doctor, maybe get a script refilled.

Never the less, I'm done here.
 
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Douggg

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I can swear by Heaven Trump is Nero incarnated. And can do so with many aspects of Revelation and current times and events.

But I get this from divine guidance.

I swear God gives me this information.
Drew, you can swear up and down all day long, a hundred thousand times a day - it still doesn't make what you say as being the truth. You can swear in a court of law - and it still doesn't make what you say as being the truth. All it does is put a noose around your neck.

Just follow instructions in Matthew 5 and James 5.


Jesus said in Matthew 5:

34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

_____________________________________________________________________________

James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
 
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Jonathan Leo

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Josef didn't cause the death of six million Jews. Hitler did.

Josef was, however, a very bad person.

Even a very, very bad person.

But, I believe Hitler was even more evil then Josef.
sorry now but killing 6 or killing 6 million doesn’t mean jack. It is murder and a very evil thing to do. They were all evil just as you and I are in Gods eyes. Just because they murder and you haven’t don’t mean a thing. It only matters on earth because we humans have set laws that show murder is more serious than adultery. God don’t see it that way. So on that basis, we are all antichrists unless we have Christ. This is not the case. There are evil people and there are antichrists. Many antichrist have gone out into the world but note that the difference between an evil person and an antichrist is one is human and one is a possessed human claiming to be God. Every time you see an antichrist in the Bible, it’s not some goat with a demonic hand gesture with horns. It is a human that looks exactly like you and I.

Christ will not return until the man of lawlessness is revealed.
He will cause the abomination of desolation. Meaning he will enter Gods temple and claim to be God. Is this literal meaning a third temple needs to be built, or is it spiritual meaning our bodies because we now are Gods temple.
I would believe it to be a physical temple since not everybody’s body is a temple of God.
Regardless of it being physical or spiritual, the antichrist will perform signs and wonders that’s out of the ordinary and claim to be God. Be aware as Jesus had told us. He will fool even the elect if it were possible.
When Jesus returns a few things will happen and here is 2 to look out for
1. Everybody in the world will see Him and everybody will kneel down and bow
2. He is coming to destroy Satan and his minions.

Clearly you can see the distinction from the Christ’s return and the guy claiming to be Christ. One is spoofing and getting people to worship him, the other is coming to destroy darkness immediately and will be worshipped regardless. First time we see Christ, we will all know it’s Him even those who never believed in Him

As for the rapture, it doesn’t really matter if it happens or not. What matters is that your right with Him before He returns or before you die. See how every knee will bow? Yes, even those He is going to judge without hope in Him are going to bow. So it’s not a case if the rapture happened or not, it’s a case of, are you in Christ’s kingdom now?
 
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