Determining what is right

[starbuck55]

Hi!
I got asked the other day by a Christian where we get morals if there is no God?
The question kinda confused me. (These questions may be better suited in 'Ethics/Morality' thread, but I wasn't sure).

I'm trying to understand the Christian perspective, so..

1. How do you know what God's stance is on a particular moral question? The Bible I'm sure, but are there other ways?

2. If two Christians say conflicting things on what God says, how do they determine which is right?

3. This question is for the individual...
In your own life, have you ever initially or maybe still feel troubled by a moral stance of God? (By troubled I mean, maybe you disagree, or you had to change your mind on a stance because of what God says). If so, what ethical question/dilemma was it?

Question #3 is the question I most wonder about.

I don't know if I'm making any sense, but if I am, feel free to answer Thanks!

 

[Zunalter]

1. How do you know what God's stance is on a particular moral question? The Bible I'm sure, but are there other ways?

The Bible is pretty much it. Because even if people say they got an answer to a particular moral question elsewhere, we would still have to filter it through the Bible to make sure it was valid.

2. If two Christians say conflicting things on what God says, how do they determine which is right?

Whoever is closer to the historical orthodox position according to church history is almost always correct. Basically, if one person says a moral issue is one way, but 2000 years of church history says it is the other way, we would most likely have to defer to the historical understanding.

3. This question is for the individual...
In your own life, have you ever initially or maybe still feel troubled by a moral stance of God? (By troubled I mean, maybe you disagree, or you had to change your mind on a stance because of what God says). If so, what ethical question/dilemma was it?

When I first heard that even just one sin earned me an eternity in Hell, that was hard to take. It didn't seem like God was loving, but a nitpicky brute waiting to plunge us all into the abyss.

But, you see, that is because I didn't understand justice, righteousness, or how Holy God is. I minimized my wrongdoing, and felt that I still deserved Heaven. Nobody wants to believe that they are a bad person, and before I was saved neither did I. But, the truth is I am a bad person, and I do deserve Hell. That is what makes God's Grace even more incredible.

 

[OldChurchGuy]

Hi!
I got asked the other day by a Christian where we get morals if there is no God?
The question kinda confused me. (These questions may be better suited in 'Ethics/Morality' thread, but I wasn't sure).

I'm trying to understand the Christian perspective, so..

1. How do you know what God's stance is on a particular moral question? The Bible I'm sure, but are there other ways?

2. If two Christians say conflicting things on what God says, how do they determine which is right?

3. This question is for the individual...
In your own life, have you ever initially or maybe still feel troubled by a moral stance of God? (By troubled I mean, maybe you disagree, or you had to change your mind on a stance because of what God says). If so, what ethical question/dilemma was it?

Question #3 is the question I most wonder about.

I don't know if I'm making any sense, but if I am, feel free to answer Thanks!

1. Sometimes, for me anyway, it is hard to be absolutely certain about God's stance on a given issue. Most issues have at least 2 sides and I believe it is up to the individual to use the brain God gave you to think, reason, weigh options, and decide. The Bible is a great source but websites such as this, commentaries, conversations with others, the internet, and your local public library can also be a source of insight.

2. It has been my observation that rarely do two Christians who are on opposite sides of an issue talk it through to reach a mutually acceptable conclusion. It is not unique to this time, though. Churches split over the issue of slavery in the 1850s and 1860s. Some denominations didn't reconcile until after World War II and others have never reconciled.

3. Many years ago I was a "literalist" when it came to interpreting the Bible. Then I agreed to teach a high school Sunday School class. I asked the class what they wanted to study and they decided they wanted to read Revelation. Then a thought ran through my head which I sensed was from God so I acted on it by asking if the class wanted alternative interpretations. The class liked that idea and I thought it was a simple thing to do. Imagine my shock when I found a variety of commentaries in the church library and they didn't agree at all! Some were convinced the anti-christ was the Pope, others were equally convinced it was the Soviet Union, and others thought the anti-christ was alive and well while others speculated the anti-christ was going to appear in just a few years.

This is just one example of the many viewpoints found in the different interpretations. My dilemma was trying to reconcile these divergent views. Over time I came to understand all of these viewpoints were based on faith as we do not have any of the original manuscripts for any book of the Bible. As such, none of the views could be "proven" right or wrong. So now I had to choose whether to abandon my faith since it was not nearly as unified as I had thought or work through the problem. I chose to work through it.

It is still a fascinating journey and one that I do not regret.

Not sure if this was any help or not. Better quit while I am behind.

OldChurchGuy

 

[Emmy]

Dear starbuck55. The Christian answer should always be, " whatever is done, or decided to be right, is the question, or answer, which is guided by love, selfless and without strings. Jesus gave us 2 Commandments, 1) Love God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. 2) Love your neighbour as you love yourself. Love is the determining factor, starbuck, every time. God`s 10 Commandments are all in the 2 Commandments, which Jesus gave us. I have yet to come across a right answer, which is not determined by selfless Love. I say this humbly and with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[starbuck55]

Thank you for your responses, they helped me understand

 

[ebia]

Hi!
I got asked the other day by a Christian where we get morals if there is no God?
The question kinda confused me. (These questions may be better suited in 'Ethics/Morality' thread, but I wasn't sure).

I'm trying to understand the Christian perspective, so..

1. How do you know what God's stance is on a particular moral question? The Bible I'm sure, but are there other ways?

2. If two Christians say conflicting things on what God says, how do they determine which is right?

3. This question is for the individual...
In your own life, have you ever initially or maybe still feel troubled by a moral stance of God? (By troubled I mean, maybe you disagree, or you had to change your mind on a stance because of what God says). If so, what ethical question/dilemma was it?

Question #3 is the question I most wonder about.

I don't know if I'm making any sense, but if I am, feel free to answer Thanks!

IMO, thinking holiness can be boiled down to a set of hard and fast rules (a) is blatantly unrealistic and (b) clearly unbiblical.

What the bible gives us isn't a complete rulebook because such would be infinitely large and complex. What it gives us are some big-picture principles ("Love the Lord your God.... and love your neighbour...") and some small-scale case studies. Imperfect people in an imperfect world will always struggle with the ambiguity of that, but there are no shortcuts.

 

[PerrySB]

After reading this thread I just felt that I needed to say something here. I was about 28 when I truly started seeking to know God. Your questions of morals and ethics seem to me that you are getting the cart before the horse. First you need to get to know God and you do that buy asking him to come into your life, and to reveal Himself to you. Once you have come to the full understanding that God exists and wants to be part of your life then you must accept is offer of salvation. Some of the moral issues that made no sense to me prior to becoming a Christian, made perfect sense once Christ came into my life. I have learned that God has made no law or rules that aren’t for our own good and protection. His perfect will is only for our benefit. This is just the opinion of an old guy that still has a lot to learn.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Good questions.

I've been doing a little thinking about the subconcious. No-one quite knows what it is - some think it's the memories of our ancestors, some think it's a place of 'understanding' (like Carl Jung's Archytypes or Plato's theory of the forms) and others have gone as far to say our subconscious is actually a part of God in ourselves.

Usually when there is a hole in a theory we think nothing of it - it's just something we haven't figured out yet. Other times, when there is a hole in a theory it bothers me. My mind thinks "Something here is wrong." If you see what I mean.

I've found answering questions is a combination of subconscious and conscious thought.

1. How do you know what God's stance is on a particular moral question? The Bible I'm sure, but are there other ways?

If I see a problem with what God says I have to try and think if this problem is "personal" or if there's a problem with the theory. If it is personal, then the problem I had with what God said seems to vanish.

2. If two Christians say conflicting things on what God says, how do they determine which is right?

Kind of the same thing - sometimes if you look deep enough you'll see the ideas/problems they have are personal, and not based on theory. I think you need to look at the person as well as the idea.

3. This question is for the individual...
In your own life, have you ever initially or maybe still feel troubled by a moral stance of God? (By troubled I mean, maybe you disagree, or you had to change your mind on a stance because of what God says). If so, what ethical question/dilemma was it?

Yeah. I had a problem with the role of women.
But this time it was a problem with logic, not because of anything personal. See, when people kept going on about the 'roles' on men and women I thought they were being sexist. I thought "Underneath it all, we're the same anyway. Stop going on about it."

But then I thought "Does that mean if we're different we can't be equal?"
Obviously not, so I changed by thinking. This time conscious logic changed my subconcious feelings.

I'm not sure if that made any sense to you. Or to me for that matter.