Desire

[Danhalen]

In most religions I have encountered, desire is considered a bad thing. Christians must learn to love and give thanks to God before they can reach God in heaven. Buddhists must learn to not desire anything to reach enlightenment. The list goes on, but what is inherently wrong about desire? What is it about wanting some "thing" that is bad for us?

 

[lawtonfogle]

speaking from the Christain point of view, desire is not wrong, but what we desire may cause that desire to be bad.

To desire to be with God is what Christain want.

For the Buddhist, let them answer it, for i know not everything about their religion.

 

[Danhalen]

speaking from the Christain point of view, desire is not wrong, but what we desire may cause that desire to be bad.

My question is "why?". Why does the object of desire dictate that it could be wrong?

 

[lawtonfogle]

maybe because the fact is wanting something that can harm you is bad for yourself.
but wanting something that is ok for you, maybe even beneificial is good for yourself.

Now define what is good for yourself and what is bad.

 

[Danhalen]

maybe because the fact is wanting something that can harm you is bad for yourself.
but wanting something that is ok for you, maybe even beneificial is good for yourself.

Now define what is good for yourself and what is bad.

Why should I provide definitions for your argument?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Desire is God's created emotion. Desire is a good emotion. It is HOW you use your desire is the key. What's your motive for desiring? Do you desire to Worship God? Do you desire your lovely wife? Do you desire to do evil action?

 

[Danhalen]

Desire is God's created emotion. Desire is a good emotion. It is HOW you use your desire is the key.

That little caveat at the end is what I am inquiring about.

What's your motive for desiring?

Lack of something?

Do you desire to Worship God?

Not me.

Do you desire your lovely wife?

Quite often.

Do you desire to do evil action?

I guess that depends on what side of the fence you're sitting on. I am not so clear on what an evil action is.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Why should I provide definitions for your argument?

You misunder stood, I said define it so you know what is good are bad to desire for yourself.

It was a question in which the answer is not posted.

 

[lawtonfogle]

i must retire, bed time

 

[Gerry Hunter]

C.S. Lewis explored the difficulties with desires in an address published under the title, "The Inner Ring."

Lewis used the example of an expected inheritance. In and of itself, the expectation of an inheritance is morally neutral. When an older relative, after a long life, peacefully dies, then leaves an inheritance, there is nothing morally offensive. But what of the desire for that inheritence? It can lead to bad things. Expressing a wish that old Uncle Joe would hurry up and kick off is generally considered bad form. And the law takes a very dim view if the desire prompts one to hasten his departure by so much as a second.

So there are times when a desire for a thing can lead to moral difficulties, while the thing itself is morally neutral. That doesn't make desires inherently bad, but it does call for caution on the part of the desirer.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Danhalen]

So there are times when a desire for a thing can lead to moral difficulties, while the thing itself is morally neutral. That doesn't make desires inherently bad, but it does call for caution on the part of the desirer.

Good response! What about a desire that is not acted upon? I can desire all sorts of horrible things, yet keep them to myself. Is that bad?

 

[Gerry Hunter]

Good response! What about a desire that is not acted upon? I can desire all sorts of horrible things, yet keep them to myself. Is that bad?

Thank you.

Oh, I hope not! You aren't the only one who can desire horrible things, for sure. But meeting and denying the desire, and not acting on the horrible thing, that's a sign of character.

There can be a problem, though, if a desire becomes obsessive. But I wonder, at that point, has someone perhaps gone beyond normal functioning, and passed into clinical pathology, where getting professional help is indicated?

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[FadingWhispers3]

In most religions I have encountered, desire is considered a bad thing.

If by desire you mean desire for good things for one's self, desire for good outcomes/futures for one's self, then christianity does advocate a certain ammount or kind of desire. We hear that people ought to love their neighbors as themselves. But of what use would that be if the people hearing this message desired nothing for themselves? Does it not follow that they need not help their neighbors because they themselves are satisfied?

What then is the opposite of desire? Can it be contentment to do without? Yet it is said that blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. There again, desire is not merely a bad thing, but a necessity!

In the parable of the kingdom of heaven, does not a man sell all that he has to obtain a pearl of great price? And why would anyone do such unless he had great desire? On the contrary, it is said that people ought to hoard treasures in heaven for themselves. Even Paul speaks of running the race, not merely for the sake of running, but for a prize.

 

[Gerry Hunter]

What of the desire to know, love, and serve God, FW3?

Is that really a desire for one's self?

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Eudaimonist]

In most religions I have encountered, desire is considered a bad thing. Christians must learn to love and give thanks to God before they can reach God in heaven. Buddhists must learn to not desire anything to reach enlightenment. The list goes on, but what is inherently wrong about desire? What is it about wanting some "thing" that is bad for us?

I'm not certain that it is desire alone that is considered bad in these religions.

In Buddhism, it is obsessive clinging to desires that is considered the source of suffering, and to be avoided.

In Christianity, it seems to be the pursuit of desires with "selfish" intent that is considered wrong. If your intent is to serve God or treat others like how you want to be treated, you're in the clear.

So, it seems to be a little more complicated than desire=bad.

 

[kedaman]

Nothing is inherently bad, but is bad unless you lack whats inherently good.

 

[FadingWhispers3]

What of the desire to know, love, and serve God, FW3?

Is that really a desire for one's self?

Truely. Not a desire to obtain the self, but a desire that fulfills the self. As it is said, he who loses his life for the sake of Christ will gain it. For if God has created human beings to be spiritual beings (and physical too!) who crave fellowship with himself, then the desire to know, love, and serve God are ALL desire of things that complete one's self. Truely life abundant. And if this arrangement does not benefit the one who seeks God, who then does it benefit? God?

 

[Gerry Hunter]

What of the desire to know, love, and serve God, FW3?

Is that really a desire for one's self?

Truely. Not a desire to obtain the self, but a desire that fulfills the self. As it is said, he who loses his life for the sake of Christ will gain it. For if God has created human beings to be spiritual beings (and physical too!) who crave fellowship with himself, then the desire to know, love, and serve God are ALL desire of things that complete one's self. Truely life abundant. And if this arrangement does not benefit the one who seeks God, who then does it benefit? God?

Well said. And it is one of the (apparent) paradoxes of the Christian life that to save one's life, one must lose it, and to best serve - even to realize - one's self, one must give it freely to another self.

That, I think, is why one has to be watchful in the area of desires. Desires exist to move us to what is needed, but they can also move us to what may be wanted, but not good for us. And where some of what we must do to best realize the self is counter-intuitive (as above), the potential for desire to move us along on a bad track is very real.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Electra]

Buddhism does not believe in complete self deniel, but it requires understanding that nothing lasts forever.

We all love good food and good drink and good company and all the toys in the world. But once the food is eaten, the drink drunk, the company enjoyed, and all the toys broken, in order for us to be happy, we need to desire and strive for more of suc things to keep us satisfied.

A truly enlightened person desires nothing but what he/she has. Im of course nowhere near such achievement, but im working towards it.

I believe there is a differance between drive and desire. You should always strive to learn and gain knowledge, but desire in itself causes people to disregard some things, walk over other people in order to get what they desire.

But thats just my personal understanding of course

 

[Gerry Hunter]

Buddhism does not believe in complete self deniel, but it requires understanding that nothing lasts forever.

We all love good food and good drink and good company and all the toys in the world. But once the food is eaten, the drink drunk, the company enjoyed, and all the toys broken, in order for us to be happy, we need to desire and strive for more of suc things to keep us satisfied.

A truly enlightened person desires nothing but what he/she has. Im of course nowhere near such achievement, but im working towards it.

I believe there is a differance between drive and desire. You should always strive to learn and gain knowledge, but desire in itself causes people to disregard some things, walk over other people in order to get what they desire.

But thats just my personal understanding of course

Yes, desire has some of the features you speak of. But I'm a bit uneasy about being happy with what you have. Certainly, for material things, that would apply, although even then, the desire for needed things like, say, food, is not at all a bad thing. But what about knowledge, or virtue? Surely it is a dangerous thing to adopt the position that one knows, or is virtuous enough, and should desire no more?

From the Christian perspective, every vice is a perverted virtue, and desire leads to evil only when the impulse runs unchecked.

Blessings,

Gerry