Design and the Brain

[Christdiedforme]

When I look at the human brain, I see workmanship and intelligent design. How did Evolution design male and female brains? How could Evolution differeniate between lots of testosterone in one brain and estrogen in another?

I do not see how Evolution could design a human brain. Especially when you examine the difference between male and female brain chemicals.

 

[TheOutsider]

When I look at the human brain, I see workmanship and intelligent design.

That weird because I see lots of chaos and randomness. Weird, eh?

How did Evolution design male and female brains? How could Evolution differeniate between lots of testosterone in one brain and estrogen in another?

Sex hormones aren't just in the brain, silly.

I do not see how Evolution could design a human brain. Especially when you examine the difference between male and female brain chemicals.

Arguments from Incredulity are sooo 4 years ago.

 

[gamespotter10]

When I look at the human brain, I see workmanship and intelligent design. How did Evolution design male and female brains? How could Evolution differeniate between lots of testosterone in one brain and estrogen in another?

I do not see how Evolution could design a human brain. Especially when you examine the difference between male and female brain chemicals.

it evolved through slow incremental steps

 

[Allegory]

I don't understand how the puddle on my driveway found a hole that fits it so perfectly

 

[Deadbolt]

I think this guy, this guy, and possibly this guy, are all one and the same.

 

[Firefly2002]

You seem to have the most underdeveloped conception of the human brain I've ever heard of. Estrogen and testosterone? A couple chemicals and that's as far as it goes?

They also exist.. elsewhere. They more interact there. Anyway, I'm sure you could see it quite clearly were it explained to you, and you didn't just literally <i>look</i> at a picture of a brain and decide it was too complex to have evolved.

And evolution doesn't design with intent. It's not a thinking creature, it's a byproduct of how nature works. Nature is just a word for Earth's environment and the changes it undergoes from day to day.

Brains are sexually dimorphic, yes. Women have a larger corpus colossum, and smaller amygdalas (which basically means the right and left halves of their brains communicate better, and they're less prone to anger and the like). They're better at language-based activities, by and large as well.

As for how that could develop? Rather simply. Females who had certain traits were better able to survive; those with ones not as well suited to survival didn't survive as well, and the better-fitted traits were kept and multiplied, and then developed, and the ones that were less-fit to the job were weeded out. The same holds true for men.

Since men and women are obviously different physically, different brain types will better suit them, as different action in the same situation is necessary.

 

[gamespotter10]

I think this guy, this guy, and possibly this guy, are all one and the same.

actually no.

 

[Christdiedforme]

You seem to have the most underdeveloped conception of the human brain I've ever heard of. Estrogen and testosterone? A couple chemicals and that's as far as it goes?

They also exist.. elsewhere. They more interact there. Anyway, I'm sure you could see it quite clearly were it explained to you, and you didn't just literally <i>look</i> at a picture of a brain and decide it was too complex to have evolved.

And evolution doesn't design with intent. It's not a thinking creature, it's a byproduct of how nature works. Nature is just a word for Earth's environment and the changes it undergoes from day to day.

Brains are sexually dimorphic, yes. Women have a larger corpus colossum, and smaller amygdalas (which basically means the right and left halves of their brains communicate better, and they're less prone to anger and the like). They're better at language-based activities, by and large as well.

As for how that could develop? Rather simply. Females who had certain traits were better able to survive; those with ones not as well suited to survival didn't survive as well, and the better-fitted traits were kept and multiplied, and then developed, and the ones that were less-fit to the job were weeded out. The same holds true for men.

Since men and women are obviously different physically, different brain types will better suit them, as different action in the same situation is necessary.

So basically if you give a species enough time, they are bound to become superior. If I leave my car in the snow for years, I do not think it will look like a better car in the spring.

 

[Nitron]

How could a troll get 802 posts?

 

[FishFace]

When I look at the human brain, I see workmanship and intelligent design. How did Evolution design male and female brains? How could Evolution differeniate between lots of testosterone in one brain and estrogen in another?

I do not see how Evolution could design a human brain. Especially when you examine the difference between male and female brain chemicals.

I find it very odd that you point to the male and female distinction as your main argument. If you knew much about how proteins (hormones are proteins) affect growth in general, you'd have an inkling of how they might go about changing the brain.

But really, the point is moot. The human brain is not so different from a chimpanzees brain. Genetic evidence tells us that chimps and humans share a common ancestor, because at some point two ape chromosomes fused together to form one of ours. There's no point a God putting that fused chromosome in there, but if we evolved from a common ancestor which had more chromosomes, it has to be there.

 

[Christdiedforme]

there are many organs that secrete hormones, particularly the endrocrine system. For example, during puberty the hypothalmus secretes gonadotropin-releasing hormones that stimulate the pituitary gland...everything works in harmony and the only theory is because time is on my side...pff!

 

[Deadbolt]

actually no.

It was you, wasn't it?!

 

[Christdiedforme]

How could a troll get 802 posts?

 

[mark kennedy]

When I look at the human brain, I see workmanship and intelligent design. How did Evolution design male and female brains? How could Evolution differeniate between lots of testosterone in one brain and estrogen in another?

I do not see how Evolution could design a human brain. Especially when you examine the difference between male and female brain chemicals.

Our ancestor would have had to triple their cranial capacity awfully fast.

Evolutionists simply don't have a genetic basis for how this is possible. It's not just the size but the density and the radical development of genes that would have remained virtually unchanged since the Cambrian Explosion.

HAR1 lies in a pair of novel non-coding RNA genes
The 118-bp HAR1 region showed the most dramatically accelerated change (FDR-adjusted P , 0.0005), with an estimated 18 substitutions in the human lineage since the human–chimpanzee ancestor, compared with the expected 0.27 substitutions on the basis of the slow rate of change in this region in other amniotes (Supplementary Notes S3). Only two bases (out of 118) are changed between chimpanzee and chicken, indicating that the region was present and functional in our ancestor at least 310 million years (Myr) ago. No orthologue of HAR1 was detected in the frog (Xenopus tropicalis), any of the available fish genomes (zebrafish, Takifugu and Tetraodon), or in any invertebrate lineage, indicating that it originated no more than about 400Myr ago17. No paralogues were detected in any amniote genome draft. Resequencing in four primates further confirms that all 18 substitutions are very likely to have occurred in the human lineage​

An RNA gene expressed during cortical development evolved rapidly in humans Authors: Katherine S. Pollard, Sofie R. Salama, et al. (Nature 443, 167-172 14 September 2006)

It fasinates me that evolutionists are unconcerned about the lack of a scientific explanation or a genetic basis for this unprecedented expansion.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[gamespotter10]

Our ancestor would have had to triple their cranial capacity awfully fast.

Evolutionists simply don't have a genetic basis for how this is possible. It's not just the size but the density and the radical development of genes that would have remained virtually unchanged since the Cambrian Explosion.

HAR1 lies in a pair of novel non-coding RNA genes
The 118-bp HAR1 region showed the most dramatically accelerated change (FDR-adjusted P , 0.0005), with an estimated 18 substitutions in the human lineage since the human–chimpanzee ancestor, compared with the expected 0.27 substitutions on the basis of the slow rate of change in this region in other amniotes (Supplementary Notes S3). Only two bases (out of 118) are changed between chimpanzee and chicken, indicating that the region was present and functional in our ancestor at least 310 million years (Myr) ago. No orthologue of HAR1 was detected in the frog (Xenopus tropicalis), any of the available fish genomes (zebrafish, Takifugu and Tetraodon), or in any invertebrate lineage, indicating that it originated no more than about 400Myr ago17. No paralogues were detected in any amniote genome draft. Resequencing in four primates further confirms that all 18 substitutions are very likely to have occurred in the human lineage​

An RNA gene expressed during cortical development evolved rapidly in humans Authors: Katherine S. Pollard, Sofie R. Salama, et al. (Nature 443, 167-172 14 September 2006)

It fasinates me that evolutionists are unconcerned about the lack of a scientific explanation or a genetic basis for this unprecedented expansion.

Grace and peace,
Mark

we didn't evolve from chimpanzees

 

[BranwenUerchLlyr]

So basically if you give a species enough time, they are bound to become superior. If I leave my car in the snow for years, I do not think it will look like a better car in the spring.

Your car isn't a biological organism, either. It doesn't have genes and it cannot reproduce. These are very basic qualities something must have if it is to be acted on by the mechanism of natural selection.

Because of recent dramatic climate changes, species X was forced into the forest, away from its home in the open plains. They now rest at the bottom of the food chain--they have a lot of new predators. Species X does have one particularly good advantage--they are very nimble and can often outrun their attackers. This quality is one of many that allowed for the survival of the species in this new environment.

Imagine Fred and Sam, members of species X, were enjoying some tasty mealworms by a giant tree. This is the first time either Fred or Sam have ventured out on their own--they're still adolescent X's and have not even reached reproductive age yet. Suddenly, a fearsome liger leaps at Fred and Sam, and they take off running. Sam has always been an excellent sprinter and is very nimble--he got his long limbs from his mother's side of the family. Fred, however, wasn't as lucky, and sometimes has trouble keeping up with the rest of the herd. Both of his parents had shorter than average limbs. It wasn't a problem for them, though, because things weren&#8217;t nearly as dangerous where they grew up.

Sadly, Fred is eventually gobbled up because of his inability to sprint quite fast enough. Sam, however, was able to bound away effortlessly. Sam went on to have cute little baby X's, most of them having at least average or longer than average legs. Fred's family line died with him, along with his genetic traits.

 

[Allegory]

we didn't evolve from chimpanzees

I did. I also demand bananas and a little top-hat.

 

[mark kennedy]

we didn't evolve from chimpanzees

Earlier humans had roughly the same body size as modern chimpanzee. Yet this immature male had already surpassed a height of five feet at the time of his death, and probably would have attained a height of 6 feet and a weight of roughly 150 lbs., assuming Homo ergaster underwent an adolescent growthspurt as modern teenagers do. The hips were more slender and adapted to walking and running over long distances. The proportions of his arm and leg bones were like those of modern humans, as opposed to the shorter legs and longer arms (more ape-like proportions) of Homo habilis and A. afarensis. The cranial capacity of WT 15000 is measured at 880cc. Using the same extrapolations that were used for height, it is estimated that he would have attained an adult cranial capacity of 909cc. His body was long and slender, probably adapted to a tropical environment, given that most tropical populations of modern humans are also tall and slender.​

"The Turkana Boy"

In order for humans to have evolved from an ape ancestor there would have had have had a major overhaul of the most highly conserved genes in the human genome. The unprecedented expansion of the human brain in size and complexity has no known genetic basis. Specifically, What makes us human? (Chimpanzee Genome, Nature 200 ) What is the genetic basis for the threefold expansion of the human brain in 2 1/2 million years?(Human ASPM Gene, Genetics 2003) What is the genetic and evolutionary background of phenotypic traits that set humans apart from our closest evolutionary relatives, the chimpanzees?(Gene Expression Differences Between the Brain Regions, Genome Res. 2003) One of the problems with the evolutionary expansion of the human brain from that of an ape is the size, weight and complexity. The human brain would have had to triple in size, starting 2 1/2 million years ago and ending 200 to 400 thousand years ago. The brain weight would have had to grow by 250% while the body only grows by 20%. The average brain weight would have to go from 400-450g, 2 1/2 MY ago to 1350–1450 g 0.2–0.4 MY.

"It is generally believed that the brain expansion set the stage for the emergence of human language and other high-order cognitive functions and that it was caused by adaptive selection (DECAN 1992 ), yet the genetic basis of the expansion remains elusive."

Evolution of the Human ASPM Gene, a Major Determinant of Brain Size, Genetics, Vol. 165, 2063-2070, December 2003​

mark kennedy v. Loudmouth: Do chimps and humans share a common ancestor?

 

[gamespotter10]

Earlier humans had roughly the same body size as modern chimpanzee. Yet this immature male had already surpassed a height of five feet at the time of his death, and probably would have attained a height of 6 feet and a weight of roughly 150 lbs., assuming Homo ergaster underwent an adolescent growthspurt as modern teenagers do. The hips were more slender and adapted to walking and running over long distances. The proportions of his arm and leg bones were like those of modern humans, as opposed to the shorter legs and longer arms (more ape-like proportions) of Homo habilis and A. afarensis. The cranial capacity of WT 15000 is measured at 880cc. Using the same extrapolations that were used for height, it is estimated that he would have attained an adult cranial capacity of 909cc. His body was long and slender, probably adapted to a tropical environment, given that most tropical populations of modern humans are also tall and slender.​

"The Turkana Boy"

In order for humans to have evolved from an ape ancestor there would have had have had a major overhaul of the most highly conserved genes in the human genome. The unprecedented expansion of the human brain in size and complexity has no known genetic basis. Specifically, What makes us human? (Chimpanzee Genome, Nature 200 ) What is the genetic basis for the threefold expansion of the human brain in 2 1/2 million years?(Human ASPM Gene, Genetics 2003) What is the genetic and evolutionary background of phenotypic traits that set humans apart from our closest evolutionary relatives, the chimpanzees?(Gene Expression Differences Between the Brain Regions, Genome Res. 2003) One of the problems with the evolutionary expansion of the human brain from that of an ape is the size, weight and complexity. The human brain would have had to triple in size, starting 2 1/2 million years ago and ending 200 to 400 thousand years ago. The brain weight would have had to grow by 250% while the body only grows by 20%. The average brain weight would have to go from 400-450g, 2 1/2 MY ago to 1350–1450 g 0.2–0.4 MY.

"It is generally believed that the brain expansion set the stage for the emergence of human language and other high-order cognitive functions and that it was caused by adaptive selection (DECAN 1992 ), yet the genetic basis of the expansion remains elusive."

Evolution of the Human ASPM Gene, a Major Determinant of Brain Size, Genetics, Vol. 165, 2063-2070, December 2003​

mark kennedy v. Loudmouth: Do chimps and humans share a common ancestor?

due to a diet very high in protein, as compared with our earlier ancestors, humans were able to get protien through there diets. Do you know where the body gets protein if you dont have enough of it in your diet? It gets it from your brain. thats right, your brain. your body will metabolize your brain if you dont get enough.

Thats the first way our ancestors tripled their brain size. the second one is that it was obviously beneficial for our ancestors to have higher brain capacity because this converges an advantage because you can hunt more effectively if you are smarter and more clever

 

[Patashu]

So basically if you give a species enough time, they are bound to become superior. If I leave my car in the snow for years, I do not think it will look like a better car in the spring.

Your car will only evolve if it can reproduce with slight error. Can it? No? Good, mine neither.