Deserving

[Bible Highlighter]

It wasn't His commands or commandments either, but it was the OT Law covenant commandments... His commands or "commandment" is the one(s) that is/are from the beginning, that preceeds it...

God Bless!

No. Jesus was making changes to the Law (even before the New Covenant went officially into effect with His death). For Jesus was primarily teaching New Covenant teachings and not Old Covenant teachings during His earthly ministry.

How so?

Jesus clearly was making changes to the Law (even before the cross):
(Which means He was not teaching primarily Old Covenant, but New Covenant):

The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
(Matthew 5:38 cf. Exodus 21:23-25).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).


The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21 cf. Numbers 35:30-32).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22).


The Old Way says:
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" (Matthew 5:34 cf. Numbers 30:1-2, Deuteronomy 23:21).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37).


The Old Way says:
"And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant." (Psalms 143:12).

"And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent." (Joshua 6:17).

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." (Joshua 6:21).

16 "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).

"They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them" (Psalms 106:34).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).

Note: Yes, I am aware that the Old Way (Old Testament) also teaches to love one's enemies (Exodus 23:4-5) (Proverbs 25:21), but this was in context to their own Israelite people, and not pagan nations. Pagan nations were to be destroyed when God commanded the Israelites to destroy them. But Jesus taught a radically different way. Love your enemies, and do good to them that hate you, and to pray for those who persecute you.


The Old Way says:
20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." (Deuteronomy 22:20-22).

4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" (John 8:4-5).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. " (John 8:7).


Even after the cross, there were changes being made:

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:
"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
(Galatians 5:2).


The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because again, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
(Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
(John 1:17).

Jesus said,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17).

Jesus came not to abolish the Law (in the sense of destroying all forms of Law), but Jesus came to fulfill the Law (i.e. to nail to the cross those ordinances that were against us [like the Old Covenant ceremonial laws], and Jesus came to give us a more fulfilled and perfect way of obeying God via the commands that come directly from Him and His followers). For Jesus offered a more perfect way of loving God, and loving our neighbor (Which of course is only possible via if we are first saved by God's grace through faith).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You just keep striving then, and just see what it will get you, K...?

God Bless!

Thank you. I will. For Jesus says,

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." (Luke 13:24).

 

[Neogaia777]

Jesus says this:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).

How can the words of Jesus judge us on the last day if the words of Jesus cannot be true to what they say at face value?

This is pointless, your not listening...

Ok, and what are His word or words, or what are His command or commandments...?

Is it not the whole counsel of God...? and are not his command or commandments the ones that you heard are from the beginning... And do you obey them perfectly Jason...? IOW's do you Love God, yourself, AND OTHERS, perfectly Jason...?

God Bless!

 

[Hammster]

No. God did not die for sinners so as to allow them to remain as sinners. God died for sinners because of their potential to be vessels of honor. If God died for worthless beings then why did He not save the devil and his minions? It's because they are pure evil and worthless. Man is different because he is redeemable in the sense that God can shape and mold him into the image of Christ's likeness. Again: Please slowly read Ephesians 5:25-27 and this will become clear. Christ died so as to sanctify us with the washing of the water of the Word of God (Scripture) so as to present to Himself a church that is holy, and without blemish. God's grace is tied to making us holy vessels that is in honor to Him (Whereby we then have value to God).

There’s just so much man-centered garbage here, I wouldn’t know where to start. I wish you had stopped at the first sentence.

 

[Neogaia777]

Thank you. I will. For Jesus says,

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." (Luke 13:24).

Exert yourself, yes, but your striving is in your own will, efforts and strength, and that is not "the Way"...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is pointless, your not listening...

Ok, and what are His word or words, or what are His command or commandments...?

Is it not the whole counsel of God...? and are not his command or commandments the ones that you heard are from the beginning... And do you obey them perfectly Jason...? IOW's do you Love God, yourself, AND OTHERS, perfectly Jason...?

God Bless!

I don't engage in personal questions that will not help you. Only the Word of God can help to change what you believe. This is why I am engaging with you with the Word of God alone. So the choice is yours. Discuss God's Word or don't discuss it. The ball is in your court. Again, stop and think. Why would Jesus mention how we can be judged by His words in John 12:48 at the Judgment if Jesus really did not mean what He said plainly?

 

[Neogaia777]

Jesus chose Paul to further continue His ministry and words (about the OT Law covenant), after He set up to show the futility of the OT Law covenant and it's ways...

Paul got it from Jesus words, even though Jesus didn't specifically say it outright, (and from His Spirit or the Spirit of God) so, are you saying Paul was in error or was lying or was false...

Cause we all know what Paul had to say about the OT Law covenant...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Exert yourself, yes, but your striving is in your own will, efforts and strength, and that is not "the Way"...

God Bless!

I am just showing you what Jesus says. If you have a problem with his words, take it up with Him. If you think these words of Jesus no longer apply you need to show me what verses you think leads you to that conclusion. But you said before these words were not written by Jesus outright, which means that your belief here is not really founded on what the Bible actually says.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus chose Paul to further continue His ministry and words (about the OT Law covenant), after He set up to show the futility of the OT Law covenant and it's ways...

Paul got it from Jesus words, even though Jesus didn't specifically say it outright, (and from His Spirit or the Spirit of God) so, are you saying Paul was in error or was lying or was false...

Cause we all know what Paul had to say about the OT Law covenant...

God Bless!

Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus, and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing.

 

[Hammster]

Repentance is a commandment (Acts of the Apostles 17:30);
And belief in Jesus is a commandment (1 John 3:23).
It's how we first come to the Lord.
Nobody can be saved without repentance and belief in Christ.
So yes. John 15:10 is true.

Do you even see God as Father? That we are His little children? That He has compassion on us? That His loving kindness is everlasting (Psalms 136)?

If you have children, I certainly hope you treat them better than you think God treats us. I hope that someday you can sing with David

How blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
Whose sin is covered! How blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit!
— Psalm 32:1-2

There is no grace in your gospel.

 

[Neogaia777]

I don't engage in personal questions that will not help you. Only the Word of God can help to change what you believe. This is why I am engaging with you with the Word of God alone. So this choice is yours. Discuss God's Word or don't discuss it. The ball is in your court. Again, stop and think. Why would Jesus mention how we can be judged by His words in John 12:48 at the Judgment if Jesus really did not mean what He said plainly?

I'm going on to something more...? Well, more, not pointless of futile or in vain or whatever now, K...?

Have a nice life Jason and I really do hope to see you in heaven...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There’s just so much man-centered garbage here, I wouldn’t know where to start. I wish you had stopped at the first sentence.

According to Ephesians 5:25-27, what was the reason Christ died for us?

25 "even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

 

[Neogaia777]

Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus, and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing.

There you go again, you are saying the words of Jesus is strictly just the OT Law covenant commands alone, and that obeying Jesus words is just strictly just keeping or obeying just the OT law covenant commands or commandments alone, and that is just not true Jason, and you should very well know that by now...

What you are doing is very wrong, telling me I don't believe nor obey or follow or whatever, Jesus words, because I will not say that Jesus words are strictly just the OC OT Law commands or commandments...

That is very wrong and very sinful of you Jason, and if you do not repent, I fear for you...

God Bless!

 

[Hammster]

According to Ephesians 5:25-27, what was the reason Christ died for us?

25 "even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

Us? The church? V 27 explains it. But that’s for the church, His bride, not all of humanity.

 

[Neogaia777]

@Jason0047, There is a lot more to it than just obeying the OT Law covenant Laws and/or rules or commands Jason, yet you are saying that is the whole and end all and be all of, and are Jesus only words and/or word to us, ect...

Do you not see how very wrong, and how very sinful that is Jason, or are you blind...?

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you even see God as Father? That we are His little children? That He has compassion on us? That His loving kindness is everlasting (Psalms 136)?

If you have children, I certainly hope you treat them better than you think God treats us. I hope that someday you can sing with David

How blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
Whose sin is covered! How blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit!
— Psalm 32:1-2

There is no grace in your gospel.

Imagine if a son murdered a ton of people and then he killed the majority of his own family. Would his father still love him in the same way he did when he was a cute and harmless little baby? What if his son planned to do more evil and even take the life of his own father? Would such a son be deserving of his father's love and forgiveness? I would say... "no." Yes, there is a difference between a child making an honest small mistake, but they seek forgiveness with their father. But major crimes can invite even the law to put a son behind bars even whereby it is even outside of the father's control.

You have to understand that while grace does abound (Romans 5:20), grace also reigns through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 5:21).

This is what Ephesians 5:25-27 is all about.

 

[Neogaia777]

Imagine if a son murdered a ton of people and then he killed the majority of his own family. Would his father still love him in the same way he did when he was a cute and harmless little baby? What if his son planned to do more evil and even take the life of his own father?

Unless you accusing someone of doing this in a spiritual sense, then I suggest you stop, what is your point of sharing or saying things like this anyway...?

Now not taking the life of His own Father, but killing some others, that may be siblings, in a "spiritual sense", is not wrong, if it is done for the right reasons, ect...

Think about it Jason, and while your at it, think about all of what you say or are saying...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Jason0047, There is a lot more to it than just obeying the OT Law covenant Laws and/or rules or commands Jason, yet you are saying that is the whole and end all and be all of, and are Jesus only words and/or word to us, ect...

Do you not see how very wrong, and how very sinful that is Jason, or are you blind...?

God Bless!

Nobody can obey the Old Law anymore because it is no longer a binding Covenant anymore. We are New Covenant believers and not Old Covenant believers.

Now, there is a thing that I like to call as "God's eternal moral laws." "God's eternal moral laws" came into existence for man and would forever exist for him after the Fall of Adam and Eve (after they received the knowledge of good and evil). A Moral Law is any law telling you to do good without a specific law telling you that such a thing is so (See Romans 2:14). These moral laws existed before the Law of Moses.

In the New Covenant (or New Testament) these Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.) are repeated within the 613 laws within the Law of Moses and these moral laws are still in effect (i.e. They have been carried over into the New Testament). However, the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more (contractually speaking). Ceremonial commands (from the Law of Moses): Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole). How so?

Here are a list of verses (showing us the Old Law is no more):

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Unless you accusing someone of doing this in a spiritual sense, then I suggest you stop, what is your point of sharing or saying things like this anyway...?

Now not taking the life of His own Father, but killing some others, that may be siblings, in a "spiritual sense", is not wrong, if it is done for the right reasons, ect...

Think about it Jason, and while your at it, think about all of what you say or are saying...

God Bless!

I am not accusing anyone of doing this personally.
I was merely provided this scenario to make my point.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Us? The church? V 27 explains it. But that’s for the church, His bride, not all of humanity.

But the bride calls us to others to come and to drink of the water of life freely.

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:17).