Descendants promised, yes; but by faith

[Interplanner]

Yes, Abraham was promised many descendants, but it never meant his body's offspring. As a picture of that, he was given Isaac who was not concieved normally by him but apart from him! The plural seed he was promised was always those in the one Seed who was Christ, with whom he had talked, and whom he had worshipped before the Law came as Melchi (King) Zedek (Righteousness).

Righteousness is necessary for justification from sins, and Christ was explaining and offering just that. We are redeemed from the curse of Adam's debt so that the blessing given to Abraham (justification) could come to all nations through Christ, which allows us to recieve the promise of the Spirit. That Spirit is in all OT visions about restoration.

 

[mxyzpt1k]

Yes, Abraham was promised many descendants, but it never meant his body's offspring. As a picture of that, he was given Isaac who was not concieved normally by him but apart from him!

... ... In Genesis 18, God sends his Angels to Abraham to announce details about the "Covenant he had with Abraham" in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, which would begin the Annunaki Alien experience in mesopotamia (lands between two rivers, the Tigris and Euphrates rivers). ... Abraham does not call himself "righteous", but he asks if there are any "righteous" people in Sodom and Gomorrah. ... ... Finally the Lord says I will not destroy the City of there is at Least One righteous person there ... ... However when God does go to Sodom and Gomorrah, he confirms his covenant with Lot ("the righteous") and destroys Sodom and Gomorrah, and God therefore discards his confirmation with Abraham regarding Sodom and Gomorrah.

God uses the "Covenant of Abraham" to represent the end of his Judgment over mankind, but God uses his "Covenant with the Sons of Man", to confirm his Covenant (And Lot was a picture of this). ... ... Issac was blessed by the Lord, because God would use apart of the line of Abraham for the "Confirmation of His Covenant", and apart of the line of Abraham to represent "the Gospel God was giving to man, towards its satisfaction".

The Blood descendants of Abraham were absolutely in view. But Just like Lot branched out from the Line of Abraham and god used him instead of Abraham, so did Jesus Branch out from the Line of Abraham, and God used Jesus and not a traditional Blood descendant of Abraham. (Issac was, once again, a picture of the branching out of the Line of Abraham).

The plural seed he was promised was always those in the one Seed who was Christ, with whom he had talked, and whom he had worshipped before the Law came as Melchi (King) Zedek (Righteousness).

Melchizedek was Promised to the Line of Abraham, that is the satisfaction of the end of his Covenant and the new earth. This is clear in the New Testament and the Book of Hebrews. We also find in the New Testament that the New Covenant the one that translates man into the new universe, is also available to mankind, but it is not available to certain groups of people, namely the "Tribe of Dan/Canaan", that has always been the enemy of the Blood Line of Abraham the Jewish People. These people are taken away at the end of time, they vanish, because God has declared this from the Beginning of Time, that "Han the father of Canaan, could not be Glorified with Noah, but would be the shame of Noah".

***Abraham was promised, Melchizedek - to be Slain in the Spirit for the sake of Righteousness. However when he attempted to do this with the Gospel, that is when he attempted to slay his son, God told Abraham essentially that he would not fulfill the promise of Melchizedek in full because of the "Tribe of Dan" that is in the earth until the end of time, and so Abraham was given a Ram to Slay, and he was sorely disappointed. He was disappointed that he could not "Slay the Spirit" in the earth, but that his actions were counted for "Righteousness", and not the "Satisfaction of it" ... we are not talking about committing a sin, God wanted the jews to represents the satisfaction of his covenant to demonstrate his mercy with man, but not to glorify the earth.

Righteousness is necessary for justification from sins, and Christ was explaining and offering just that. We are redeemed from the curse of Adam's debt so that the blessing given to Abraham (justification) could come to all nations through Christ, which allows us to recieve the promise of the Spirit. That Spirit is in all OT visions about restoration.

Essentially yes. We are redeemed from the Curse of Adam by the cleansing of the Gospel and once this dept is paid, we can then receive the "Blessing of Abraham". Jesus promised to the Church, which had only been promised to the Jews before Jesus Came, and this was only revealed to the Church when Judas was commanded by Jesus to be taken to the Church.

The Debt is paid to a higher degree for the Line of Abraham, then it is for the rest of mankind, this is a sound way of describing the "Genetic Inheritance the Jewish people received from Abraham". Just like it is much more difficult for certain groups of people to inherit the "Blessing of Abraham", and this is why Jewish people are targeted in countries with high rape and murder rates, in established patterns (to this the bible says "mene mene tekel upharsin"). But remember we have designed a law at the end of time to achieve the migration of man in a peaceful way.
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So yes the Antichrist, like Lot and Jesus and a number of other personalities would probably be branched out of the Line of Abraham specifically. Or have Jewish descendency, somewhere in his bloodline. Some people even believe that the Antichrist can only be a Jewish person, like Nostradamus. But we must keep watch, because like Moses and the Exodus sometimes this is not as clear by visual appearances.

 

[keras]

IP, your theory is somewhat tenuous, given the many scriptures that clearly state how the descendants of the Patriarchs would inherit the Land. God does know who they are; Amos 9:9 sieved among the nations and not one pebble [person] will be lost.
I do not believe in 'Replacement Theology' as such; Church = Israel.
No; we all know how much the established church has deviated from the true Gospel, let alone all the cult churches.
But the truth is the Northern ten tribes did migrate Westward from the Caucasus region of Assyria and are now known as Caucasian peoples. It is them who have, in the main, accepted Christianity and the 'born again believers' among them will be the main group who will return to their heritage, as so well prophesied. Isaiah 11:11-12, Ezekiel 20:34-38
Revelation 7:9 says that back in the holy Land, there will be people from every tribe, nation and language, they all become Israelite and will be assigned to the various tribes, but in order for God's promises to the Patriarchs to be fulfilled, there must be a high proportion of the true descendants of Jacob.

 

[mxyzpt1k]

I do not believe in 'Replacement Theology' as such; Church = Israel. No; we all know how much the established church has deviated from the true Gospel, let alone all the cult churches.

God did not kick out the Jewish/Hebrew people, and replace them with the Church in the New Testament. Instead what god did do was include the Church under the "Abrahamic Covenant". I made the mistake here in this thread: "The old covenant kingdom put on notice early in Matthew" christianforums.com/t7829034/ . That the reason Christ Blesses the House of the Centurion, in the Centurion's name was to renounce it. When in reality when Christ had included the Church in the "Abrahamic Covenant", it was the "Blessing of Abraham" he bestowed that allowed the Churches to "Be Slain in the Spirit for the Sake of Righteousness". (Christ did not replace the Jews, that is an Antisemitic position, I in no part wanted to convey).

Isaiah 11:11-12, Ezekiel 20:34-38
Revelation 7:9 says that back in the holy Land, there will be people from every tribe, nation and language, they all become Israelite and will be assigned to the various tribes, but in order for God's promises to the Patriarchs to be fulfilled, there must be a high proportion of the true descendants of Jacob.

ISAIAH 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
ISAIAH 11:13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

When Jesus came in included the Church in the "Abrahamic Covenant", the Jewish people no longer needed to have Jerusalem or a nation of their own for the sake of the Gospel, which Moses was commanded to bring the Jewish people to Jerusalem. ... ... When Jesus came and included the Church in the "Abrahamic Covenant" ... ... the Churches would no longer be convicted by the exclusive "Abrahamic Covenant" Christ previously only had with the Jewish People. So yes, I agree here with what you are teaching, except the Churches do not need to identify with Jewish teachings to be faithful, but holding "Antisemitic Positions is simply Unfaithful".
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I do have a problem though: Isiah 11:12 and 13 appear to treat Judiasm as cannon with the Gospel, if you say that the Churches could now worship with the Jews in Judiasm. But I believe the passages follow the Antichrist who would used the Jewish Kabbalah as the basis of a design seen in his global migration movement, thus ending all strife with the completion of the covenant and the removal of the Tribe of Dan (11:11).

There is also another serious problem: The New Testament references the "Abrahamic Covenant" so many times, anyone will be hard pressed to discern weather a Church was being faithful in its own cannon, which Jesus indicated this was okay, as he "Blessed the house of the Centurion in the name of the Centurion, and then took their sins away and healed them". Something to think about ... (Since Zechariah was slain in the Church it could not replace the "Body of Isreal") ... no the Church does not replace Isreal, it inherits the "Abrahamic Covenant", I guess on these terms someone could say it's considered apart of Isreal again on different terms)

 

[Douggg]

Yes, Abraham was promised many descendants, but it never meant his body's offspring. As a picture of that, he was given Isaac who was not concieved normally by him but apart from him! The plural seed he was promised was always those in the one Seed who was Christ, with whom he had talked, and whom he had worshipped before the Law came as Melchi (King) Zedek (Righteousness).

Righteousness is necessary for justification from sins, and Christ was explaining and offering just that. We are redeemed from the curse of Adam's debt so that the blessing given to Abraham (justification) could come to all nations through Christ, which allows us to recieve the promise of the Spirit. That Spirit is in all OT visions about restoration.

For Salvation, there is not other way but Jesus.

The promise of the land to the literal physical descendants of the twelve tribes, forever, and bringing all Israel to Christ is not negated by the gospel of Salvation.

Everyone knows, Inter, that a person does not have to be a Jew to be saved. And almost everyone knows that by being saved, a person is not made a Jew - except them who are confused.

 

[keras]

Mxyzptlk, you seem to confuse the Jews with all Israel. They are only 1/6th and the 10 tribes are the other 5/6ths. All the Prophetic Word makes the distinction between the two Houses. Even Jesus does, when He said: I have come to save the lost sheep of Israel. And the Apostles spread the Gospel to them where they were dispersed. 1 Peter 1-2
Just one of the many prophesies that say it will be Israel, not Judah, who will be the leading tribes when the Land inheritance is fulfilled, is - Jeremiah 12:14-16

 

[mxyzpt1k]

Even Jesus does, when He said: I have come to save the lost sheep of Israel. And the Apostles spread the Gospel to them where they were dispersed. 1 Peter 1-2
Just one of the many prophesies that say it will be Israel, not Judah, who will be the leading tribes when the Land inheritance is fulfilled, is - Jeremiah 12:14-16

Yes. The "Crucifixion of Christ", can be an exclusive reference to the "Abrahamic Covenant". ... ...JEREMIAH 12:14 Thus saith the LORD against all mine evil neighbours, that touch the inheritance which I have caused my people Israel to inherit; Behold, I will pluck them out of their land, and pluck out the house of Judah from among them. ... ...

Isreal Falls to the Abrahmic Covenant in Revelations! This is when the Antichrist reigns, and the Twelve Tribes Fall. But before Revelations takes place, only the Tribe of Ephraim is Married to the "Abrahmic Covenant", and the Churches were counted with Ephraim in the New Testament. The Salvation program apparently continues until the "Three Days of Darkness". (Noah 150 days, Peter 153 Days, difference = 3 1/2 days), so there will be physical darkness in revelations connected to the marriage of all the Twelve Tribes to the Abrahmic Covenant, when "Isreal touches the inheritance".

In the Book of Revelations, the "Tribe of Dan is not included" (Juda is called the Lion, Dan was the Lion), and the "Tribe of Ephraim is not stated, but is implied by the Clothed in White, so this is all the Twelve Tribes (clothed in white) when the Antichrist/Aliens makes their appearance.

 

[keras]

The complete quote:
Jeremiah 12:14-16...but after I have uprooted them, [Judah] I shall have pity on them again and bring each man back to his land. If they will learn the ways of My people, [Christians] revering My Name, and swearing allegiance to the Lord, as they taught My people to swear by the Baal, they will establish families among My people.
Fairly easy to understand, I would think.
The rest of your post is simply your own theories. Please spell Israel correctly.

 

[Interplanner]

Keras, that has to do with after the exile. The NT makes no distinction at all like this.

 

[keras]

Keras, that has to do with after the exile. The NT makes no distinction at all like this.

Well IP, we know that you see prophesies like this as fulfilled already. Whether this stance is from denial or delusion or simply false beliefs, I can't tell.
But I read the prophesies and about what did happen in the past, and I cannot reconcile the two. You would have to think the ancient prophets were very careless of what they wrote or as you seem to do; say the NT abrogates the OT. This means that you see the OT as an old story book, interesting but of no special value.
I and the NT Apostles, will never agree with this. 1 Cor 10:11, 2 Peter 1:19

 

[mxyzpt1k]

The complete quote:
Jeremiah 12:14-16...but after I have uprooted them, [Judah] I shall have pity on them again and bring each man back to his land. If they will learn the ways of My people, [Christians] revering My Name, and swearing allegiance to the Lord, as they taught My people to swear by the Baal, they will establish families among My people.
Fairly easy to understand, I would think.
The rest of your post is simply your own theories. Please spell Israel correctly.

I want to take a moment and go backwards briefly in this discussion to restate a few things:

Old And New Testament Decree
1. Tribe of Dan is Antisemitic because it cannot inherit the "Abrahamic Covenant". (Because it cannot keep the 10 Commandments in the name of "Abraham" by the oath of the bones of Joseph, delivered out of Egypt, it must be slain). Tribe of Dan exists only, until the end of time.
2. 10 Lost Tribes are snared by Baal Worship (typically by rejecting the Crucifixion, failing to be impacted by the gospel message), and because of this they are the servants to the Tribe of Juda, until the end of time.
3. Tribe of Ephraim is married to the "Abrahamic Covenant", and then a remnant of the 10 Lost Tribes are included only through the Church, until the end of time.

Old and New Testament Decree "Biblical Restatement"

Tribe of Ephraim Married to the "Abrahamic Covenant"
I KINGS 11:36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there.

***The Jewish People were commanded to go to Jerusalem, and Jesus went to be crucified and delivered of the Church in Jerusalem.

10 Lost Tribes the Servant of the Tribe of Juda
I KINGS 11:31 And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
I KINGS 11:32 (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel).

***The 10 Tribes are given to Jeroboam in the name of the Tribe of Juda, to be his servant, but Jeroboam is rebuked by the lord and commanded not to Touch either the Tribe of Ephraim in the name of David, or the Tribe of Dan because the Lord is speaking (which is implied)

Tribe of Dan to be Slain at the end of David's Life
I KINGS 11:34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:
I KINGS 11:40 Solomon sought therefore to kill Jeroboam. And Jeroboam arose, and fled into Egypt, unto Shishak king of Egypt, and was in Egypt until the death of Solomon.

***Jeroboam rebukes Solomon by going into Egypt (a reference to the Tribe of Dan) because this is the Tribe that god commanded to be Slain, and not the Tribe of Juda (Jeroboam took 10 Tribes to be his servant and not the servant of the Lord, so this is why Solomon wanted to Kill Jeroboam, but it was the Lord that commanded Jeroboam to take the 10 Tribes), until the end of time.

The Book of Revelations Exclusive Decree - Invalidating the Old and New Testament Decrees

REVELATION 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

This is a major conflict. Remember the Tribe of Juda took 10 Tribes from the Lord, to become his servant. Now God takes the 10 Tribes away from the Tribe of Juda, and then God claims the Tribe of Juda for himself. Moreover God claims the Tribe of Juda in the name of David, in the name of the "Abrahamic Covenant". If God claimed the Tribe of Juda for himself only, it would have to be killed like the Tribe of Dan, which the Tribe of Juda seems to replace by receiving the title of the "Lion", which has always been reserved for the now slain Tribe of Dan.

God uses the Tribe of Juda as an example of giving tithes during the Migration Movement, which is to say the nations. It is for this reason of contention stated by God, we must deal not only with the political people, but also the people that choose to threaten humanity by threatening the process of migration in a humane and clean way and this is something that will be done, and this is something the Antichrist will help get done, and this is to be done soon. (Perhaps another nightly walk soon, I was toning this behavior down though).

 

[Interplanner]

Your on your own, mxypt. I have no idea what you are about. And there is a lot of it.

Can you summarize the sermon of Acts 13 in only a line or two? Thanks.

 

[mxyzpt1k]

Your on your own, mxypt. I have no idea what you are about. And there is a lot of it.

Can you summarize the sermon of Acts 13 in only a line or two? Thanks.

ACTS 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation ) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
ACTS 13:11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord [is] upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.

God did not intend to give the Tribe of Juda which is now counted as "10 Tribes" the "Abrahamic Covenant". So when Elymas tried to bring the Tribe of Juda under its authority, the Apostle Paul rebuked him. Then the Apostle Paul said that you only can have the "Abrahamic Covenant" in the church without the "Sun", which is to say "being slain in the spirit for the sake of righteousness".

Remember the "Tribe of Dan" cannot be "slain in the spirit for the sake of righteousness", so it will always see the "sun". In Acts 13, Elymas is called the child of the Devil, as an "Adopted Son of the Abrahamic Covenant". Elymas was never under the authority of the "Tribe of Dan", and Elymas or Ephraim is never the authority over the "Tribe of Dan".

(In parenthesis, the Tribe of Dan is not to minister in the church, and Antisemitism is one of the reason's why, it is an attack on the "Abrahamic Covenant" which the churches have inherited by the coming of Jesus in that day, and from that day forth, unto the end of time, when the Tribe of Judas is no longer the head of 10 tribes and the 12 Tribes come to the "Abrahamic Covenant")

(King David grouped the 10 Tribes together, and separated Ephraim and Dan. Ephraim was always separate, but whats important is the grouping of the 10 Tribes together under the Tribe of Juda, as this has not been done before David. We can make generalizations about this, but remember the "Tribe of Dan" does not see the 153 Days of the Cosmic Shift, God did not intend this for them at any point in time in the gospel. But God did intend another law to be given, the Law of Newlife, to clarify the terms and this we have done)

(The Aliens did reachout to mankind with Roswell, with the Third Reich, and also in Asia surrounding WW2, we do not know all the details but we do know this would not of violated the gospel, meaning, the activity could of been geared towards a colony on the moon or on Mars, and in someways distant from the affairs of the Earth, but this did not take place, and we do not know all the details except, the Tribe of Juda was given the choice no to oppose Ephraim or the Gospel and it failed to do so, and the opportunity was declined)

 

[mxyzpt1k]

Tracking the Tribes - Before the 10 Lost Tribes

When the 10 Tribes came under the authority of Juda, they lost their association with the peoples of the Middle East, Egypt, and Babylon essentially. So this is also predicted in the Bible:

NEHEMIAH 9:7 Thou [art] the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;
NEHEMIAH 9:8 And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give [it, I say], to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou [art] righteous:

When Solomon reached the extent of his empire before his death, he fulfilled this revelation, and he took authority of all the 10 Tribes in the name of Abraham, moreover, Solomon technically took authority over all the 12 Tribes. Then, it was near the death of Solomon when Jeroboam took 10 of the 12 Tribes in the name of the Tribe of Juda, and it was at this time, I believe the 10 Lost Tribes became associated with the lighter skinned Euro-Asian people more so then the dark skinned river people surrounding the Middle East and Africa.

In short only the Tribe of Ephraim maintained its ethnic association to the Jewish/Hebrew people specifically (and this was amended to include the church in the new testament), whereas the other Tribes did not maintain their ethnic associations if any had been applied. The argument became adopted for the 10 Tribes, and the Tribe of Dan, and it is only the Tribe of Dan that does not see the Cosmic Shift of 153 days, so in the Book of Revelations this is the only Tribe that is acted against, and the Tribe of Dan does not refer to a specific group, but groups of people. This is a simpler way of viewing the transition in the gospel. (A much simpler way of viewing the tribe of Dan is in the antisemitic races that have gained notability and there basically four of them world wide, but remember also God intended another Law to come to resolve the gospel with mankind, so denying or rejecting the Law of Newlife, is simply an error in pride)

("Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites", etc. became the Antisemitic People associated with the Tribe of Dan by reason of the development of the "Abrahamic Covenant". Not just Antisemitic but people that are a threat to themselves and society and for this reason perish from the face of the earth as apart of the Tribe of Dan.)