Denaturalization

[ralliann]

Right, so what? I was talking about dual citizenship, not religious practices in the post you quoted.

Citizenship in Judaism is by religious practice. What makes a person a Jew? You can't fell Jew's to denounce they ARE Jews. And you cannot tell Israel as a country they cannot consider foreign born Jews as Jews. You can be all kinds of nationalities in Islam. Circumcision does not make you automatically Saudi Arabian.

Then why in the world are you addressing that question to me when my remark - that you quoted - was about dual citizenship and whether Jews would get an exception? Your posts make no sense as replies to me.

Because it matters to Jews. It is their religion. What is the exception? They do not need one. And you cannot tell Israel they cannot consider them Jews either. Now they have reclaimed their homeland. Just leave them alone.

 

[DaisyDay]

Citizenship in Judaism is by religious practice. What makes a person a Jew? You can't fell Jew's to denounce they ARE Jews. And you cannot tell Israel as a country they cannot consider foreign born Jews as Jews. You can be all kinds of nationalities in Islam. Circumcision does not make you automatically Saudi Arabian.

Why are you bringing circumcision into a discussion on Trump's wanting to end dual citizenship in America? If dual citizenship were to be barred by law here with having another citizenship would get you American citizenship revoked. My question is if Jews would be the sole exception. You seem to be arguing in favor that they would be.

Because it matters to Jews. It is their religion. What is the exception? They do not need one. And you cannot tell Israel they cannot consider them Jews either. Now they have reclaimed their homeland. Just leave them alone.

No one would be removing the Israeli citizenship, just the American one should this not be the exception. This isn't about Israel, this is about the American president wanting to forbid dual citizenship - American only. Jews would be free to choose to remain American and forfeit their Israeli citizenship or they can claim Israeli citizenship and forfeit their American one - unless there is a special condition just for them.

 

[Coriovallum]

Citizenship in Judaism is by religious practice. What makes a person a Jew? You can't fell Jew's to denounce they ARE Jews. And you cannot tell Israel as a country they cannot consider foreign born Jews as Jews. You can be all kinds of nationalities in Islam. Circumcision does not make you automatically Saudi Arabian.


Because it matters to Jews. It is their religion. What is the exception? They do not need one. And you cannot tell Israel they cannot consider them Jews either. Now they have reclaimed their homeland. Just leave them alone.

There is no "citizenship" in Judaism. Israel and Judaism should be seen as two separate entities as the former is secular (secular Zionism).

 

[BCP1928]

I think immigrants should be asked, "If war broke out between the United States and your home country, which side would you support?" It the answer isn't immediately "The United States," they should leave.

A naturalized citizen has just as much right to oppose any war the United States enters as a native born citizen.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I think immigrants should be asked, "If war broke out between the United States and your home country, which side would you support?" It the answer isn't immediately "The United States," they should leave.

I am an American citizen by birth and a born-again Christian. If there were ever a war between Israel and the USA, I'm unsure which side I would support. Does this uncertainty mean I should lose my citizenship?

 

[Hans Blaster]

I am an American citizen by birth and a born-again Christian. If there were ever a war between Israel and the USA, I'm unsure which side I would support. Does this uncertainty mean I should lose my citizenship?

I guess I really don't understand this "born again" thing, because I can't figure out why that would involve backing the State of Israel against your own country.

 

[BCP1928]

I guess I really don't understand this "born again" thing, because I can't figure out why that would involve backing the State of Israel against your own country.

Actually, it doesn't matter. We all have the freedom to not support a war that the United States enters into. If the US invades Venezuela I have a right to oppose that war and protest against it (and I will.) Why should a naturalized Venezuelan immigrant not have the same right?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I am a born United States citizen and was a Jew. If war broke out between Israel and the US, I would never even consider supporting Israel.

 

[BCP1928]

I am a born United States citizen and was a Jew. If war broke out between Israel and the US, I would never even consider supporting Israel.

Well, as a Naval Officer you are in a different position I suppose, than a civilian opposing a war he thinks is wrong. No, what it boils down to is, "We'll let you become a citizen on condition that you are never critical of MAGA foreign policy."

 

[Hans Blaster]

Actually, it doesn't matter. We all have the freedom to not support a war that the United States enters into. If the US invades Venezuela I have a right to oppose that war and protest against it (and I will.) Why should a naturalized Venezuelan immigrant not have the same right?

I wasn't commenting about not supporting (or even actively opposing the war), it was about siding with another country *against* ones own. That was the statement made about Israel. I don't get how being "born again" correlates or implies that. (Not that I ever got the notion of "born again". They tried to connect those passages to confirmation, but confirmation was rather Meh.)

 

[RDKirk]

(staff edit)
I would say their country is garbage and they often bring with them and culture that is incompatible with western democracy. But I wouldn't call the people "garbage." Some are good, but there needs to be a better vetting process before they enter the country. I think a simple solution is to ask them if the US declared war on their home country, who would they support? If the answer isnt the United States, they need to leave.

As though lying wasn't easy.

As though accusing someone as having lied wasn't easy.

 

[RDKirk]

Okay. Then we should get rid of dual citizenship.

The US does not technically recognize dual citizenship.

The oath of US citizenship essentially requires a person to abandon any prior citizenship.

A foreign country might continue to observe the citizenship of persons born on their soil even if by becoming American citizens they've pledged to abandon all previous national connections.

What's significantly surprising is that even though the US naturalization oath requires immigrants to abandon all past national allegiances, American law does not prohibit citizens from acquiring new national allegiances (dual citizenships).

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Well, as a Naval Officer you are in a different position I suppose, than a civilian opposing a war he thinks is wrong. No, what it boils down to is, "We'll let you become a citizen on condition that you are never critical of MAGA foreign policy."

Honestly, as a Naval Officer, and as enlisted, I have always been against was in general. It should always be the last response. These days everyone is too quick to start killing. I guess it's easier if they don't have skin in the game

 

[RDKirk]

Circumcision was done in Egypt while they were slaves, before Israel was even a nation.

Apparently not. Just before they crossed the Jordan, they had to pause for a few days to circumcise all the men.

 

[ralliann]

Apparently not. Just before they crossed the Jordan, they had to pause for a few days to circumcise all the men.

Apparently so.
Jos 5:4 And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt.

 

[ralliann]

I am a born United States citizen and was a Jew. If war broke out between Israel and the US, I would never even consider supporting Israel.

Alot of American Jew's went to Israel voluntarily to serve in the IDF after the massacre.

 

[RDKirk]

Apparently so.
Jos 5:4 And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt.

The ones who had been under 20 years old when they left Egypt survived to enter the Promised Land. Circumcision was on the 8th day, so that whole generation should have been circumcised as they left Egypt, if they were still being circumcised. There is no text saying that circumcision was still going on in Egypt.

 

[ralliann]

There is no "citizenship" in Judaism. Israel and Judaism should be seen as two separate entities as the former is secular (secular Zionism).

Gen 34:21 These men are peaceable with us; therefore let them dwell in the land, and trade therein; for the land, behold, it is large enough for them; let us take their daughters to us for wives, and let us give them our daughters.
22 Only herein will the men consent unto us for to dwell with us, to be one people, if every male among us be circumcised, as they are circumcised.


Ex 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.


Ez 47:21 So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel.
22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.

 

[RDKirk]

Honestly, as a Naval Officer, and as enlisted, I have always been against was in general. It should always be the last response. These days everyone is too quick to start killing. I guess it's easier if they don't have skin in the game

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I guess I really don't understand this "born again" thing, because I can't figure out why that would involve backing the State of Israel against your own country.

I understand, as an atheist, why you might not grasp this basic religious principle. For Christians—whether born-again, Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox—the biblical teaching is straightforward: Christians place their allegiance to God and the Kingdom of God above everything else. Anyone who prioritizes themselves or their country over God's kingdom and commands cannot truly be a follower of Christ.