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Yes I feel that way too but I have little choice; there's Catholic, Lutheran, tongue-speaking Charismatics (where my son went) and this Baptist Church. I want to stay in my church but I cannot condone him demonizing people, especially my son. There's more to why my son left but he left honorably and his first love is still Jesus; being demonized separates him (a disabled young adults) from all the young adults in his contact circle for the last several years. It separates me from all those I've grown to love if I leave ... and leaves me with an unappealing choice of alternatives. Thanks for your answer though.
Last week, in leading us to the Lord’s Supper, my pastor (Baptist) used the opportunity to liken people who leave our Church to Judas Iscariot, and I believe thereby to Satan. He further demonized people who leave us by labeling them as betrayers and equated their betrayal of us with Judas Iscariot’s betrayal of our Lord Jesus Christ. He then called for our church to shun contact with those who leave our church. My son recently left our church to be with his fiance at her Charismatic Church, with her family. It was a difficult choice but the right one for him and his intended. I have been crying for days over what my pastor said; and, I have not gone to church since. I will follow Matthew 18:15 but I am horrified at the thought that he might not recant what he said (humility and the ability to admit a mistake aren't like him). I am searching for truth and resolution in this devastating circumstance. I believe my pastor abused his authority out of his own hurt pride. Did he abuse his authority? How can what he said be biblical? Any scripturally based help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you so much for your encouragement and scriptual references. For 5 years we've been on Genesis (Wednesdays) and Proverbs (Sunday nights) with Sunday mornings being what the pastor calls the "hard preaching" we all need and other pastors are too weak to preach. He is not one to preach on love, he's truly a "tinkling cymbal" on the subject. He'll stand there and tell us that talking about love is misguided (part of why my son left - he kept saying Jesus was not his buddy, which ... ok the word buddy isn't in the bible but the word love is pretty hard to overlook in the New Testament) .. I know we've been growing in Christ and I've felt it was in spite of our pastor sometimes. But he's human ... and the term "love stupid" seems to fit. But I feel a commitment to our church still. It's my lampstand. I am going to follow Matthew 18:15 tomorrow, and 16 if I have to. I will share the result. Once again many thanks.Of course, I do not really know him; so I need to not jump to conclusions about him. But in my case I have been a very love-stupid person; I could do things wrong and be totally convinced I was right and by God's word and very smart . . . but so love-stupid ! !
How much is he talking about how we become because of Jesus growing in us as our new inner Person? > Galatians 4:19 < how much has he obviously ministered this to you??? We need our people who are our role models and who have power of
prayer
example
obedience
so they minister for us to become more like Christ, and develop in how we relate with God and please Him and submit to how He rules each of us in His very own peace > Colossians 3:15. And discover how He has us relating as family with one another >
"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)
And loving any and all people. In my opinion, "only", I would say that whoever ministers this to people is the real pastor of a church. Possibly, the one up front is not this person
Do you have a home group with people who help one another to grow and live in Jesus?
We all together can be "speaking the truth in love," so that we "may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head---Christ---" (in Ephesians 4:15)
So, is he doing this and having others also ministering with one another for this?
Or, what does he emphasize?
And it is good not to allow a wrong person to have power over you to get you the wrong way.
"swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God." (in James 1:19-20)
You be his example!!!
Forgive me but why are you posting this here? Well we only hear ONE side of this. Go to the pastor or if you believe he is in error.. pray for him.. forgive him. And find a new church.
Of course, I do not really know him; so I need to not jump to conclusions about him. But in my case I have been a very love-stupid person; I could do things wrong and be totally convinced I was right and by God's word and very smart . . . but so love-stupid ! !
How much is he talking about how we become because of Jesus growing in us as our new inner Person? > Galatians 4:19 < how much has he obviously ministered this to you??? We need our people who are our role models and who have power of
prayer
example
obedience
so they minister for us to become more like Christ, and develop in how we relate with God and please Him and submit to how He rules each of us in His very own peace > Colossians 3:15. And discover how He has us relating as family with one another >
"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)
And loving any and all people. In my opinion, "only", I would say that whoever ministers this to people is the real pastor of a church. Possibly, the one up front is not this person
Do you have a home group with people who help one another to grow and live in Jesus?
We all together can be "speaking the truth in love," so that we "may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head---Christ---" (in Ephesians 4:15)
So, is he doing this and having others also ministering with one another for this?
Or, what does he emphasize?
And it is good not to allow a wrong person to have power over you to get you the wrong way.
"swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God." (in James 1:19-20)
You be his example!!!
I literally quoted what our pastor said in introducing the Lord's Supper (I have it on tape). I posted it here because I literally don't want to be a "whisperer", this is anonymous, and I need Christians to talk to about this. It is a very serious situation to me. This church is my Lampstand ... I was looking for advice. It goes without saying that prayer and foregiveness are essential to what I do ... and believe me they have been at the front of my focus. I have also been praying that I won't end up leaving this church ... yet knowing that if this is abuse, I cannot sanction it by staying.Forgive me but why are you posting this here? Well we only hear ONE side of this. Go to the pastor or if you believe he is in error.. pray for him.. forgive him. And find a new church.
If you confront him then do it with facts and evidence that you have memorised and if necessary documented. Be dispassionate and factual. Do not add to or embellish the facts and do not offer explanations for the facts just present them and when the time comes present your intentions based on the facts. It doesn't help to stray from facts into emotional responses even when the emotion is labelled "agape". Be careful and do not think of Lutherans, Catholics, and tongues-speaking Charismatics as a worse choice than your current Baptist church.I have an appointment with him on Friday. He is not a humble guy and he doesn't admit mistakes specifically but just generically and often refers to mistakes he made with people who left. And, he complains in sermons that people don't tell him why they leave. So, I am going to confront him in all the humility and agape I can muster and I am praying he recants. I so want to stay ... I am searching for biblical support for what he said as well as my position. This is all very painful but it cannot separate me from my love of Christ. Thankyou for your reply.
"Buddy" can be a little . . . something. Jesus rebukes and chastens whom He loves, as I would say you know. But John could rest his head on Jesus' bosom.he kept saying Jesus was not his buddy,
Last week, in leading us to the Lord’s Supper, my pastor (Baptist) used the opportunity to liken people who leave our Church to Judas Iscariot, and I believe thereby to Satan. He further demonized people who leave us by labeling them as betrayers and equated their betrayal of us with Judas Iscariot’s betrayal of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I think you need to approach your pastor from the perspective that you are sharing your reasons for leaving his church. His toxic judgmentalism is a far greater reason to disassociate yourself from his church than your minor doctrinal differences with the fiancé's charismatic church or, for that matter, your other church alternatives. The Bible teaches that we must sometimes demonstrate confrontational tough love and your situation is a textbook situation for this task. I would boldly stress these 3 points to your pastor:
(1) The shunning implied in Matthew 18:15-20 applies to a member who "sins against you" and your son's choice, far from a sin, is simply pursuing the best interests of his imminent marriage.
(2) It is advisable for an engaged couple to attend the same church. So how should your son and his fiancé make that choice? Clearly, the spiritual atmosphere of that charismatic church facilitates a greater catalyst for your son's growth. Conversely, his fiancé evidently needs not only her church connection with family, but also her church's stress on the Person, work, and gifts of the Holy Spirit. Thus, everybody gains from your son's switch to her church. Only your pastor's ego or his misplaced value of doctrinal systems would prevent him from recognizing this fact.
(3) You should also address the larger question of why some Christians leave one church for another. Ask your pastor if he is humble enough to recognize that some people leave their church because they aren't being fed spiritually. There is a wise old saying, "Who you are speaks so loudly that I can't hear what you say." Your pastor seems to have forgotten that we are saved by grace through faith, not through our acceptance of a doctrinal system or loyalty to a spiritual environment that we find toxic.
Your son's plight reminds me of a joke about a Baptist pastor who was uncharitable to rival denominations. One Sunday, he asked his congregation, "How many of you visitors are NOT Baptists?" Only an elderly woman named Mabel put up her hand. "And what are you?" he bellowed. "I'm a Methodist." He replied: "And why are you a Methodist?" "Because my parents were Methodists, and my grandparents were Methodists; so I'm a Methodist too." The Baptist pastor sneered: "That's ridiculous! Suppose I said, "My parents were morons and my grandparents were morons." What would that make me?" Mabel dryly replied: "I guess that would make you a Baptist!"
I don't think it's a sin to leave a church. It's probably more like breaking up with a boyfriend or girlfriend and probably feels to him like disowning your family. Just something to think about as to why he might be saying those things. You are not married to him, which is why you are free to go, but he might feel otherwise.Last week, in leading us to the Lord’s Supper, my pastor (Baptist) used the opportunity to liken people who leave our Church to Judas Iscariot, and I believe thereby to Satan. He further demonized people who leave us by labeling them as betrayers and equated their betrayal of us with Judas Iscariot’s betrayal of our Lord Jesus Christ. He then called for our church to shun contact with those who leave our church. My son recently left our church to be with his fiance at her Charismatic Church, with her family. It was a difficult choice but the right one for him and his intended. I have been crying for days over what my pastor said; and, I have not gone to church since. I will follow Matthew 18:15 but I am horrified at the thought that he might not recant what he said (humility and the ability to admit a mistake aren't like him). I am searching for truth and resolution in this devastating circumstance. I believe my pastor abused his authority out of his own hurt pride. Did he abuse his authority? How can what he said be biblical? Any scripturally based help would be greatly appreciated.
Last week, in leading us to the Lord’s Supper, my pastor (Baptist) used the opportunity to liken people who leave our Church to Judas Iscariot, and I believe thereby to Satan.
Last week, in leading us to the Lord’s Supper, my pastor (Baptist) used the opportunity to liken people who leave our Church to Judas Iscariot, and I believe thereby to Satan. He further demonized people who leave us by labeling them as betrayers and equated their betrayal of us with Judas Iscariot’s betrayal of our Lord Jesus Christ. He then called for our church to shun contact with those who leave our church. My son recently left our church to be with his fiance at her Charismatic Church, with her family. It was a difficult choice but the right one for him and his intended. I have been crying for days over what my pastor said; and, I have not gone to church since. I will follow Matthew 18:15 but I am horrified at the thought that he might not recant what he said (humility and the ability to admit a mistake aren't like him). I am searching for truth and resolution in this devastating circumstance. I believe my pastor abused his authority out of his own hurt pride. Did he abuse his authority? How can what he said be biblical? Any scripturally based help would be greatly appreciated.
I believe in the seven churches as ages...
Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry
The spirit of Jezebel was once upon in the Catholic church. This spirit, to control and to dominate, can reside in any of the Christian congregations. I believe it is the beginning of worse things to come and can lead to actual violence against people.
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