Democrats fracturing as their failures aren't being appreciated

[nehalem]

It's kind of interesting how the left is starting to turn on Obama. Self admitted socialist in the senate, Bernie Sanders, is calling for a (non republican) challenger to run against Obama in the primary for 2012. LA Times has a story today about how polls are showing even Democrats are starting to turn on Obama as jobless fatigue sets in. Hope and change has turned into rope and change-it-back.

What's happening? Well if you believe the far left, it's because Obama has willingly gone to the right. Nothing could be further from the truth though. This posturing isn't supported by reality. Obama is claiming to want "compromise" on the debt ceiling, but he's as uncompromising as one can be. The majority of the country is now aware of the fact that our current course means in 10 years, our debt will double again with no chance of reversal simply because the Democrats have no real plan for addressing the problem in a way that also recovers our economy. America wants fiscal responsibility, social spending reform, but Obama hears "Oh you want tax increases? Let's increase taxes!"

Voice of reason: "But sir, taxes are already crushing Business. The only struggling companies that are doing well pay no taxes, thanks to connection to you. Lower taxes for all businesses so we can recover and cut spending so we can pay down our debt."
Obama "What? you want increased taxes? Ok! Let's raises taxes and keep the current level of spending, and spend more!"
Voice of reason : "Is this thing on? *taps mic*"

The far left in the washington is right about one thing. Their president is losing control of the dialogue. No longer can they ignore the wishes of the American people to reign in spending. Obama is essentially stuck, which is probably where leftists are unloading on him to their own (hopeful) gain. He's stuck in the sense that as more working americans become politically active, the less favor he curries by fulfilling the desires of the far left, like more gun grabbers, love of illegal immigration as a political strategy, more social programs and removing responsibility for people's own lives. These leftists realize that if tehy can join in the ragging on the president, they can hopefully convince enough voters that they are more closely associated with the likes of the tea party instead of Obama's proven liberal track record.

 

[Anovah]

In a lot of ways, Obama is to the right of Ronald freakin Reagan.

 

[nehalem]

In a lot of ways, Obama is to the right of Ronald freakin Reagan.

Name 3 ways.

 

[Touma]

Name 3 ways.

Extending tax cuts, where Ronald Reagan actually raised taxes, for starters.

 

[nehalem]

Extending tax cuts, where Ronald Reagan actually raised taxes, for starters.

Nice try, but Reagan cut taxes. Tax revenue increased under Reagan though because the economy expanded, production increased and the lower tax rate was greatly surpassed by the sheer number of additional economic activity that could be taxed. It's a shocking concept for guys like Obama, but cutting taxes really does increase increase production and the government sees more money coming in.

 

[RETS]

In a lot of ways, Obama is to the right of Ronald freakin Reagan.

I would say "mirror image." Possibly "doppelganger."

 

[Anovah]

Reagan was in favor of amnesty for illegal immigrants

Reagan negotiated with terrorists (Iran contra)

And something the president brought up recently, the tax rate was higher under Reagan

Also, if this debt ceiling agreement includes cuts to "the big three" (which I imagine it will) Obama will have done what many conservative presidents have been unable to do. In fact Obama is chiding senate democrats who are insisting taxes be a part of the agreement.

 

[nehalem]

Reagan fought for small government. He wasn't smart enough to not trust liberals on congress though, so when they promised to fix immigration and spending after amnesty, they broke their word and we've been paying for it ever since. The whole Reagan = Obama myth is one of the most bizarre because to make the assertion, one has to use 'hit and run one liners' but reality is easily exposed with just a cursory review of the facts.

 

[nehalem]

Reagan was in favor of amnesty for illegal immigrants

Reagan negotiated with terrorists (Iran contra)

And something the president brought up recently, the tax rate was higher under Reagan

Also, if this debt ceiling agreement includes cuts to "the big three" (which I imagine it will) Obama will have done what many conservative presidents have been unable to do. In fact Obama is chiding senate democrats who are insisting taxes be a part of the agreement.

The only reason Reagan was for amnesty, was because of assurances from the then liberals that they would secure the border and get serious on immigration. They lied, Reagan made a blunder. I should add that Bush wanted to get some kind of Amnesty program, and he was never compared to Reagan that I remember. Conservatives, still licking their wounds from the liberal lies from Reagan's amnesty, strongly protested and backed him down.

You almost have a point with Iran, but you know what they say about hindsight. Nobody really knew the mullahs would take over as they did.

To say the tax rate was higher under reagan and leave it at that is dishonest. It was lower than under the previous administration and it greatly spurred economic growth out of the Carter sinkhole. If he could have, he would have cut it even further.

Reagan was the anti-Obama.

Edit: Please show me where Obama has chided anyone in congress because they wanted to raise taxes. Obama is out there every day calling for increased taxes himself.

 

[DaisyDay]

Democrats have always been fractured.

 

[Touma]

Nice try, but Reagan cut taxes. Tax revenue increased under Reagan though because the economy expanded, production increased and the lower tax rate was greatly surpassed by the sheer number of additional economic activity that could be taxed. It's a shocking concept for guys like Obama, but cutting taxes really does increase increase production and the government sees more money coming in.

Reagan's Tax Increases | Capital Gains and Games
Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010
Ronald Reagan Myth Doesn't Square with Reality - Political Hotsheet - CBS News



Even Reagan Raised Taxes - Forbes.com

The first part of that path entails raising higher revenues. Everyone remembers Reagan's 1981 tax cuts. His admirers are less likely to tout the tax hikes he accepted as the 1981 recession and his own tax cuts began to unravel his long-term fiscal picture--a large tax increase on business in 1982, higher payroll taxes enacted in 1983 and higher energy taxes in 1984. A decade later, when a serious recession and higher spending began to upend the fiscal outlook again, the first President Bush similarly raised taxes on higher-income people in 1991; Bill Clinton doubled down and raised them again in 1993.

 

[nehalem]

Reagan cut taxes during the recession, which is what we're talking about here. Obama want's to raise them. Reagan got away with raising taxes because the economy had already started recovering and he only went along because of the congressional spending. Without reckless spending, you don't have to take the people's paycheck through higher taxes. Obama wants more spending, or at least, fake cuts, and increased taxes, during an ever worsening economy.

Just a year or two ago, obama himself said it would be batty to increases taxes during a recession. Does he really believe we're out of the mess? Do the 20+% unemployed agree?

Yay, i can post links now: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/09/reagan-tax-increases/

 

[Touma]

Reagan cut taxes during the recession, which is what we're talking about here. Obama want's to raise them. Reagan got away with raising taxes because the economy had already started recovering and he only went along because of the congressional spending. Without reckless spending, you don't have to take the people's paycheck through higher taxes. Obama wants more spending, or at least, fake cuts, and increased taxes, during an ever worsening economy.

Just a year or two ago, obama himself said it would be batty to increases taxes during a recession. Does he really believe we're out of the mess? Do the 20+% unemployed agree?

Yay, i can post links now: Reagan Tax Cuts & Increases | The Big Picture

I thought we were talking about how Obama is right of Reagan?

Also, why do you completely disregard the reckless spending of Reagan and Bush, Jr?

 

[nehalem]

I thought we were talking about how Obama is right of Reagan?

Also, why do you completely disregard the reckless spending of Reagan and Bush, Jr?

Answer my points and i'll answer yours, plenty of time in the day to go off on tangents.

 

[blueapplepaste]

Reagan fought for small government. He wasn't smart enough to not trust liberals on congress though, so when they promised to fix immigration and spending after amnesty, they broke their word and we've been paying for it ever since. The whole Reagan = Obama myth is one of the most bizarre because to make the assertion, one has to use 'hit and run one liners' but reality is easily exposed with just a cursory review of the facts.

Reagan, and every other Republican POTUS since has grown the size of government. The myth of Reagan, isn't even close to reality. Reagan wasn't a small government fiscal conservative - he might be remembered that way by those on the right that worship him, but reality shows otherwise.

 

[tulc]

Reagan fought for small government. He wasn't smart enough to not trust liberals on congress though, so when they promised to fix immigration and spending after amnesty, they broke their word and we've been paying for it ever since. The whole Reagan = Obama myth is one of the most bizarre because to make the assertion, one has to use 'hit and run one liners' but reality is easily exposed with just a cursory review of the facts.

Nice to see the Saint Reagan myth machine is still alive and well in the 21st century.
tulc(somethings never change)

 

[kermit]

Nice try, but Reagan cut taxes.

Reagan raised taxes 11 times.

Tax revenue increased under Reagan though because the economy expanded

The economic expansion was an illusion created by massive government spending.

 

[Eric Hilbert]

Nice try, but Reagan cut taxes. Tax revenue increased under Reagan though because the economy expanded, production increased and the lower tax rate was greatly surpassed by the sheer number of additional economic activity that could be taxed. It's a shocking concept for guys like Obama, but cutting taxes really does increase increase production and the government sees more money coming in.

That's true, but you're forgetting that Reagan actually did raise taxes under TEFRA, a compromise with Congress in which he would agree to a tax increase in exchange for a comparable cut in discretionary spending.

The Democrat led Congress agreed, but never honored their end of the bargain. Taxes went up, Reagan ended up with egg on his face, and the rest is history.

His friendship with House Speaker, Tip O'Neill never really recovered from this.

 

[acropolis]

Uh oh someone said something unflattering against Reagan, time to start freaking out.

 

[nehalem]

That's true, but you're forgetting that Reagan actually did raise taxes under TEFRA, a compromise with Congress in which he would agree to a tax increase in exchange for a comparable cut in discretionary spending.

The Democrat led Congress agreed, but never honored their end of the bargain. Taxes went up, Reagan ended up with egg on his face, and the rest is history.

His friendship with House Speaker, Tip O'Neill never really recovered from this.

That's correct. People forget that the President can't do much of anything to stop spending if there is a majority of his opponents in congress that want to. Reagan may have been a spender, but compared to Bush and even more so Obama, he was a penny pincher. Reagan would never have advocated the gutting of our health care industry with a government run monstrocity, which is why the Reagan = OBama comparison doesn't hold a drop of water with me.