Democratic mayors renew pleas for federal help and coordination with Texas over migrant crisis

[BPPLEE]

Why don’t we? Because Republicans fight it tooth and nail, complaining about how people cheat the system.

If you want to campaign for a more robust social safety net, I don’t think you’ll find a lot of resistance among Democrats.


i.e. “prime age working men”




like wages



What culture is that, exactly?

And is non-conformity a bad thing? Seems like I recall more than a few youth group messages about how good Christian kids ought not conform to our culture. Evangelicals have taken that message so seriously, they’ve basically got their own parallel media industry.


Yes, I’m sure the folks fleeing crime in central america and societal collapse in Venezuela were architects of their own demise.

If you want to argue that we should beef up the facilities used to intake and temporarily house migrants, or the legal apparatus to process asylum claims, I’ll happily agree with you.




If we could get them work visas and decent minimum wage laws, that wouldn’t be a problem. But it’s mostly Republicans fighting that, no?



I’m all for boosting educational support, too.



As opposed to leaving them in the desert or bussing them around the country on false pretenses like Greg Abbot? Yes, I would say that it’s at least closer to God’s plan. I seem to recall Jesus praising the widow for giving her mite because it was all she had instead of telling her to save her money because it wasn’t enough to make a difference.


I’m happy to continue to remind you and anyone else on this board that treating migrants, economic or otherwise, like invaders to be fought off is unchristian and disgusting. If your memory ever starts to get foggy, feel free to tag me and I’ll gladly pop in with a refresher.

We could afford some of those things if we stopped sending money to other countries.

 

[Hans Blaster]

We could afford some of those things if we stopped sending money to other countries.

Foreign aid is a very small portion of the federal budget (something like 2%).

 

[BPPLEE]

Foreign aid is a very small portion of the federal budget (something like 2%).

Still, the U.S. gives more money in foreign aid in total dollars than any other country in the world, distributing more than $530 billion globally between 2012 and 2021. In 2021 alone – the most recent year for which data is complete – the U.S. gave foreign countries about $52.4 billion.
This doesn’t include money for Ukraine, over $100 billion.
We’re going to have to change our priorities if we’re going to take all these people in.
NY alone will spend $12 billion in the next 3 years, they could use some of that half a trillion we sent to other countries in the last decade.
Some people seem to think we can just spend more money for each problem that comes up.

 

[iluvatar5150]

We could afford some of those things if we stopped sending money to other countries.

Or if we hadn’t given big tax breaks to real estate developers.

Still, the U.S. gives more money in foreign aid in total dollars than any other country in the world, distributing more than $530 billion globally between 2012 and 2021. In 2021 alone – the most recent year for which data is complete – the U.S. gave foreign countries about $52.4 billion.
This doesn’t include money for Ukraine, over $100 billion.
We’re going to have to change our priorities if we’re going to take all these people in.
NY alone will spend $12 billion in the next 3 years, they could use some of that half a trillion we sent to other countries in the last decade.
Some people seem to think we can just spend more money for each problem that comes up.

If we actually had a plan to accept, house and integrate these people instead of just putting them up in a hotel indefinitely, maybe it would cost less. But when your entire plan is just “kick em out,” this is what you get.

 

[BPPLEE]

Or if we hadn’t given big tax breaks to real estate developers.


If we actually had a plan to accept, house and integrate these people instead of just putting them up in a hotel indefinitely, maybe it would cost less. But when your entire plan is just “kick em out,” this is what you get.

How many do you think we can take? 11 million now, another 11 million?

 

[iluvatar5150]

How many do you think we can take? 20 million? 50 million?

That’s a good question. We could probably take in as many as we wanted. We seem to be pretty good at doing the things we want to do and pretty good at dragging our feet on the ones we don’t.

 

[BPPLEE]

That’s a good question. We could probably take in as many as we wanted. We seem to be pretty good at doing the things we want to do and pretty good at dragging our feet on the ones we don’t.

I suppose we are going to create jobs for them.
It doesn’t work that way.
Jobs don’t exist because someone needs one.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I suppose we are going to create jobs for them.
It doesn’t work that way.
Jobs don’t exist because someone needs one.

The national unemployment rate is 3.7%. There are jobs to be had. But even if there aren’t enough, we can make more. That’s what a big chunk of the New Deal was. That’s largely the purpose of the military- uniformed jobs for poor kids and engineering contractor jobs for the white collar constituents of a bunch of congressmen. There’s a ton of grunt work needed to be done around this country - my city can’t find enough people to collect trash or clean the streets, for example. In addition to that, these people would need places to live, which have to be built. They need food to eat, which has to be grown and sold. etc Just bringing them here will necessarily induce demand and create more jobs. This sort of population influx is the only chance that a lot of depopulated rural areas have of surviving.

 

[BPPLEE]

The national unemployment rate is 3.7%. There are jobs to be had. But even if there aren’t enough, we can make more. That’s what a big chunk of the New Deal was. That’s largely the purpose of the military- uniformed jobs for poor kids and engineering contractor jobs for the white collar constituents of a bunch of congressmen. There’s a ton of grunt work needed to be done around this country - my city can’t find enough people to collect trash or clean the streets, for example. In addition to that, these people would need places to live, which have to be built. They need food to eat, which has to be grown and sold. etc Just bringing them here will necessarily induce demand and create more jobs. This sort of population influx is the only chance that a lot of depopulated rural areas have of surviving.

Bringing these people to depopulated rural areas will not magically create jobs.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Bringing these people to depopulated rural areas will not magically create jobs.

No, obviously, it takes more work than that. But these areas won’t improve without more people, and if they’re not generating population on their own (they’re not), then you have to import them.

Or we could just let them continue to fall further into poverty and despair. That’s always an option, too.

 

[BPPLEE]

No, obviously, it takes more work than that. But these areas won’t improve without more people, and if they’re not generating population on their own (they’re not), then you have to import them.

Or we could just let them continue to fall further into poverty and despair. That’s always an option, too.

This is the part that’s not making sense. In an area like that the only way to employ people you import is through some government program

 

[iluvatar5150]

This is the part that’s not making sense. In an area like that the only way to employ people you import is through some government program

It's not the only way. More people == induced demand in existing businesses, so, the pizza places, gas stations, hospitals, schools, etc will all need more staff to service the new residents. It stands to reason that some of the migrants would start their own businesses, too.

If the area is small enough that its existing job market can't absorb everybody, then it's likely that the government would have to do a fair amount of work to create jobs, but they wouldn't have to create all of them.

 

[BPPLEE]

It's not the only way. More people == induced demand in existing businesses, so, the pizza places, gas stations, hospitals, schools, etc will all need more staff to service the new residents. It stands to reason that some of the migrants would start their own businesses, too.

If the area is small enough that its existing job market can't absorb everybody, then it's likely that the government would have to do a fair amount of work to create jobs, but they wouldn't have to create all of them.

Well we’ll see how that plays out because it looks like there’s no stopping them

 

[iluvatar5150]

Well we’ll see how that plays out because it looks like there’s no stopping them

If nobody is trying to house and integrate them (and it doesn't appear that anybody is), then it's not going to play out. It's just going to be a mess. In order for this to be handled well, we have to want to handle it well and we have to put the effort into handling it well.

 

[Hans Blaster]

How many do you think we can take? 20 million? 50 million?

Didn't the numbers you posted yourself indicate that the number of asylum seekers each year is a couple hundred thousand? At that rate it would take a whole century to get to the hyperbole you just posted.

 

[BPPLEE]

Didn't the numbers you posted yourself indicate that the number of asylum seekers each year is a couple hundred thousand? At that rate it would take a whole century to get to the hyperbole you just posted.

242,418 encounters in a month

Southwest Land Border Encounters

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

 

[Hans Blaster]

242,418 encounters in a month

Southwest Land Border Encounters

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

Encounters are a poor measure of anything other than what CBP agents spend time doing. It's like counting traffic stops. It doesn't measure how many crimes you solved.

 

[BPPLEE]

Encounters are a poor measure of anything other than what CBP agents spend time doing. It's like counting traffic stops. It doesn't measure how many crimes you solved.

It measures how many people are coming to the border in addition to known getaways and unknown getaways. The numbers are staggering

 

[Desk trauma]

But these areas won’t improve without more people, and if they’re not generating population on their own (they’re not), then you have to import them.

Import them to do what? The rural areas depopulating are doing so because there is not a demand for people to be there.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It measures how many people are coming to the border in addition to known getaways and unknown getaways. The numbers are staggering

This thread is about refugees and asylum seekers. No one counts as a refugee unless they declare themselves to US authorities.