Deliberate Sin - Not Forgiven?

[LightBearer]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"So what of the sin of Ananias and Sapphira? Acts 5: 1-11. It appears that when they sinned they really sinned."

good question, now, does it anywhere say they were christians?

Well yes it does indicate they were members of the early congregation.

Moreover, the multitude of those who had believed had one heart and soul, and not even one would say that any of the things he possessed was his own; but they had all things in common. Also, with great power the apostles continued giving forth the witness concerning the resurrection of the Lord Jesus; and undeserved kindness in large measure was upon them all. In fact, there was not one in need among them; for all those who were possessors of fields or houses would sell them and bring the values of the things sold and they would deposit them at the feet of the apostles. In turn distribution would be made to each one, just as he would have the need. So Joseph, who was surnamed Bar'na·bas by the apostles, which means, when translated, Son of Comfort, a Levite, a native of Cy'prus, possessing a piece of land, sold it and brought the money and deposited it at the feet of the apostles. However, a certain man, An·a·ni'as by name, together with Sap·phi'ra his wife, sold a possession and secretly held back some of the price, his wife also knowing about it, and he brought just a part and deposited it at the feet of the apostles. Acts 4: 32-5:1.

It calls al those who shared in the redistribution believers.  Then discloses how two of these believers named Ananias & Sapphira tried to cheat.

 

[LouisBooth]

Well I do agree with you if you look at the passage at a whole, but this doesn't seem to contradict what I think about the subject at all. They were slipping back into the old habits, not struggling with the old nature that is dead and gone.

 

[LightBearer]

But if what you originally said is correct, that "when you sin, you dont really sin" how can you "slip Back". To slip back would indicate a lack of appreciation for what christ had done for them, this in itself is a sin, and a sin that eventually led to them loosing their lives. Therfore the sin was accounted to them.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Therfore the sin was accounted to them."

Exactly, I'm not saying you can't sin, but you don't have a sinful nature. Big difference. You can sin, that is you stopping the sanctificaiton process, but the sin nature you have is gone.

 

[aforchrist33]

Dear LouisBooth;

You said ..... "The sin nature is gone"

Are you saying we no longer have a sin nature? And if so would you please give us a scripture.

 

[LouisBooth]

Sure...Gal 2:18-21 to start..

I died, yet I live, but not me but christ that lives within me...its my new nature that is alive, not my old one, its dead and gone.

Eps 2 is also a great place to look...we are new creations

You can also look in romans it says clearly that the new man serves God and doesn't follow sin.
One of the greatest clues is probalby the passage containing this verse

"2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. "

 

[aforchrist33]

Dear LouisBooth;

1. You intreperted (Galatians 2:18-21) as meaning our old nature was "Dead and gone." Would you please tell me which word and verse says our old "Nature" is gone? when it's refering to our being dead to being justified by keeping the law through a new nature.

2. Again where in (Ephesians 2) or (Romans) does it refer to our "new creation" as refering to a new nature that is no longer with us?

3. "New creature" In (2 Corinthians 5:17) is refering to a child of satan becoming a child of God, has nothing to do with no longer having a sinful nature.

 

[LouisBooth]

"when it's refering to our being dead to being justified by keeping the law through a new nature."

Nope..It says we are dead...dead as understood by jews is a separation, a perminent one at that. Thus why a bridge is needed. So what was seperated from us? What died in that passage? We did..our nature.

Point 2- Here Paul illistrates it as citizenship. We are no longer citizens do this world, all our ties to it are broken. The only tie we had to it was our sinful nature. I think v 14 and 15 say just that. Our sin nature and our spirits were at odds (my explaination of romans 7) Thus Christ remade our nature into a new nature and literally killed the other one. Thus it is dead and gone. In Romans it says the same thing.

The new creature has EVERYTHING to do with your sinful nature. What do you think keeps you from God? The context literally screams that!! Our old nature keeps you from God so it must be killed, destroyed, seperated from you so that God can indwell you. This is the exact reason Paul says in verse 21.

 

[aforchrist33]

Dear LouisBooth;

1. I asked if you would "Please tell me which "WORD" and "VERSE" in (Galatians 2:18-21) said our "OLD NATURE" was gone and all you gave me was your opinion saying "NOPE" and "WE DID...OUR NATURE"

2. You also said "IT WAS OUR SINFUL NATURE I THINK (V14 AND 15) " and "MY EXPLAINATION" of (Romans 7:21) "IT IS DEAD AND GONE" and then conclude "OUR OLD NATURE KEEPS YOU FROM GOD."

Are you saying God's love is conditional?

 

[LouisBooth]

1. I ask you, what part of you died? YOu don't physically die when you become a christian...so there is a spiritual death, or seperation. It is your old nature. It "dies".

"Are you saying God's love is conditional?"

In terms of a saving nature. Yes. You have to be a christian in order to benefit from grace.