Definitions of "Value" and "Earn"

[wpiman2]

Well, you have just demonstrated in that one sentence a greater understanding of Ayn Rand than TheNewWorldMan has demonstrated in dozens of posts. He attacks her because he doesnt know what else to lash out at. Even he gets tired of his constant assault on the evil rich.

I understood my reading of her as "don't hate the wealthy". Look at the value they add.

That said-- there are some wealthy people who earn their money unethically, like those who lobby the government for money. Government acquires wealth through stealing. Business acquires wealth through beneficial mutual exchange.

 

[rambot]

I've always understood that the capitalist system works best when money is flowing through it at a fast rate.

Is that a fair thing to assume?

 

[wpiman2]

I've always understood that the capitalist system works best when money is flowing through it at a fast rate.

Is that a fair thing to assume?

Well, the velocity of money is more of a result that a cause. What is your point?

 

[Zlex]

You're assuming a perfect system though. What if I open my umaroburger that pays the workers $10 and food costs the same at the expense of my own salary? The McDonalds next door will drop it's food price with a "sale" until I fold and then will go back to the norm. It's called the "strip mall effect" and it's pretty well documented. It's the same reason you very rarely see any family owned businesses around. Your claim that the CEO is earning his keep in a free market is one thing, but we've reached a point where companies are too big for a free market to function. If you're going to argue in their defense you have to show they have not created a virtual monopoly. Other examples are even more clear cut. Could you possibly as an individual set up a phone company to rival the big ones now? Of course not.

I'm 56, my first and last job as an employee I left at 26. I've been a self employed "S" Corp contractor ever since, I've been signing both sides of my paycheck since. My interest and curiosity and bursts of optimism in the face of utter tribal insanity have taken me all over the world.

My advice is to be neither an employee, nor an employer.

You don't have to agree with any of that cheap, free advice, it's ok. But my naive beliefs took me to Princeton, where I escaped unscathed, magna cum laude, and to MIT, totally for free, on a RA, for my masters. But, I didn't stay for my got-to-have-it-or-all-is-lost doctorate, either. I didn't leave to continue to build my resume, I left to build my life, and did, enjoying immensely the freedom to do so.

You don't have to do anything like what I did. Maybe there's lots of paths that work. But, I'm not going to debate the efficacy of at least one path that I know actually worked for this privileged spawn of white ... trash coal miners and penniless ex-Italian convicts fleeing to America. God Bless America.

You don't have to be optimistic about what I already did, but I don't have to pessimistic about what I didn't do. It's ok that we don't see eye-to-eye, we can both live with that.

I wasn't trying to encourage me, and I wasn't losing anything by trying to encourage you. It's dangerous to say this, but I'm not one of the One Pie World people. It's not a One Pie World. That's an excuse we make. We don't bake 'the' pie, we bake pies.

Go bake your pie. Can't compete with the phone companies, make something new--like Vonage. We all win when you make the effort.

 

[Umaro]

I'm 56, my first and last job as an employee I left at 26. I've been a self employed "S" Corp contractor ever since, I've been signing both sides of my paycheck since. My interest and curiosity and bursts of optimism in the face of utter tribal insanity have taken me all over the world.

My advice is to be neither an employee, nor an employer.

You don't have to agree with any of that cheap, free advice, it's ok. But my naive beliefs took me to Princeton, where I escaped unscathed, magna cum laude, and to MIT, totally for free, on a RA, for my masters. But, I didn't stay for my got-to-have-it-or-all-is-lost doctorate, either. I didn't leave to continue to build my resume, I left to build my life, and did, enjoying immensely the freedom to do so.

You don't have to do anything like what I did. Maybe there's lots of paths that work. But, I'm not going to debate the efficacy of at least one path that I know actually worked for this privileged spawn of white ... trash coal miners and penniless ex-Italian convicts fleeing to America. God Bless America.

You don't have to be optimistic about what I already did, but I don't have to pessimistic about what I didn't do. It's ok that we don't see eye-to-eye, we can both live with that.

I wasn't trying to encourage me, and I wasn't losing anything by trying to encourage you. It's dangerous to say this, but I'm not one of the One Pie World people. It's not a One Pie World. That's an excuse we make. We don't bake 'the' pie, we bake pies.

Go bake your pie. Can't compete with the phone companies, make something new--like Vonage. We all win when you make the effort.

I don't think you're understanding the difference between a person and people. Sure, a single poor person might come up with a new idea like Vonage or Google did, or might get into a good college like you did. But people are different, and not everyone can do those things. Everyone could on the other hand open a restaurant if they tried, but that dream has become nearly impossible.

 

[lordbt]

I don't think you're understanding the difference between a person and people. Sure, a single poor person might come up with a new idea like Vonage or Google did, or might get into a good college like you did. But people are different, and not everyone can do those things. Everyone could on the other hand open a restaurant if they tried, but that dream has become nearly impossible.

That is false. You can open your own restaurant if you wanted to and perhaps if you did, and realized the effort and the risk involved you would see the owners in a different light. I have run my own business for 20 years now and was part owner in a restaurant at one time. The number of weeks that went past where my employees got paid and I did not in spite of the 50-60 hour weeks i put in would surprise you. You see the profits and the wealth that CEOs make but you ignore the risk and the effort that they put in to get there.

 

[Umaro]

That is false. You can open your own restaurant if you wanted to and perhaps if you did, and realized the effort and the risk involved you would see the owners in a different light. I have run my own business for 20 years now and was part owner in a restaurant at one time. The number of weeks that went past where my employees got paid and I did not in spite of the 50-60 hour weeks i put in would surprise you. You see the profits and the wealth that CEOs make but you ignore the risk and the effort that they put in to get there.

People like that are becoming more and more outliers though. You have to have at least a decent amount of capital in order to start up anything, and if you are working paycheck to paycheck on minimum wage you have no hope of saving that up. The banks have now stopped most loaning because of the recession so it's even more unlikely. Our middle class is dissolving, and the few on top are just letting it happen.

 

[wpiman2]

People like that are becoming more and more outliers though. You have to have at least a decent amount of capital in order to start up anything, and if you are working paycheck to paycheck on minimum wage you have no hope of saving that up. The banks have now stopped most loaning because of the recession so it's even more unlikely. Our middle class is dissolving, and the few on top are just letting it happen.

The few on top who love to be a part of a successful business and will lend to those who they think can be successful.

 

[Umaro]

The few on top who love to be a part of a successful business and will lend to those who they think can be successful.

No, they aren't lending to anyone really.
Why U.S. banks still aren't lending - Economy at a Crossroads- msnbc.com

 

[wpiman2]

No, they aren't lending to anyone really.
Why U.S. banks still aren't lending - Economy at a Crossroads- msnbc.com

Those are banks who aren't lending because they don't have the capital. Can't blame people/banks for not lending money they don't have.

I know plenty of angel investors who are looking for opportunities currently because they don't trust treasuries. All you need is a good story and a little elbow grease.