Defining "Cult"

[Dale]

The Billy Graham organization officially defines a cult as any religion with a creed different from theirs. In other words, they define a cult as any religion significantly different than their own. I find this definition to be maddeningly unhelpful. It certainly is not what most people mean when they call a group a cult. Yet I gather that many conservative Christians use much the same definition.
*
*
Personally, I would define a cult as a religious organization marked by secrecy and authoritarianism, particularly when led by a cult leader who can be removed only by death.

 

[TrueQ]

Hmm, a religion that covers up prophecies and books written that undermine it's authority, it claims that following every stricture and law it puts forward is the only way to avoid damnation, the only way it's leader can be removed is by death, eh?

Catholicism is kind of cultish, I suppose. But yeah, some people out there won't give people who's philosophies differ from theirs even the benefit of a doubt. I don't like the word 'cult', people and groups get labeled with it and lose all credibility. But I can agree with that definition.

 

[Motus]

It's wrong to say a cult is a belief in something other than orthodox Christianity, because there are other valid religions. But if that's how old Billy wants to think about it, that's his choice. My personal view of a cult is an organization which uses coercive tactics and brainwashing to take advantage of people, usually causing them to give all their money, time, energy, and life to the organization to such an extent that they cannot livein the society outside the cult even if they wanted to. People who escape cults usually need exit counseling. Of course a cult is a kind of fuzzy term and there are those who would say Jesus had one.

 

[challenger]

The Billy Graham organization officially defines a cult as any religion with a creed different from theirs. In other words, they define a cult as any religion significantly different than their own. I find this definition to be maddeningly unhelpful. It certainly is not what most people mean when they call a group a cult. Yet I gather that many conservative Christians use much the same definition.

Its a good way of shouting down your opponents, if somebody disagrees with their theological opinions, they'll scream "CULT" at the top of their lungs and hope it distracts enough to cancel out any chane of real discussion.

Personally, I would define a cult as a religious organization marked by secrecy and authoritarianism, particularly when led by a cult leader who can be removed only by death.

Sounds about right to me.

 

[Lycan T]

The Billy Graham organization officially defines a cult as any religion with a creed different from theirs. In other words, they define a cult as any religion significantly different than their own.

I think that put him and his followers in the CULT catagory!

 

[Volos]

Isaac Bonewitz developed the cult evaluation form some years ago. It can be used on any religious group and evaluates on the various things that make a cult a cult. Unfortunately many Christian sects rate rather highly on the scale.



Try punching your favorite Christian sect through and see how they do. Rate each item and add up the total at the tend, the higher the total number the more cultish that group is.



1. Internal Control - amount of internal political power exercised by leader(s) over members

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High



2. Wisdom Claimed - by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared about decisions

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




3. Wisdom Credited - to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions made by leader(s)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




4. Dogma - rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctrinal inflexibility

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




5. Recruiting - emphasis put on attracting new members; * amount of proselytzing

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




6. Front Groups - number of subsidiary groups using different names from that of the main group

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




7. Wealth - amount of money &/or property desired or obtained; emphasis on member's donations

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




8. Political Power - amount of external political influence desired or obtained

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




9. Sexual Manipulation - of members by leader(s); amount of control over sex lives of members

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




10. Censorship - amount of control over member's access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




11. Dropout Control - intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




12. Endorsement of Violence - when used by or for the group or its leader(s)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




13. Paranoia - amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies, perceived power of opponents

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High




14. Grimness - amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines, or leader(s)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

 

[shastajade]

I have been taught that a cult is any religion that practices worshiping and putting their faith in anyone other than God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit (the trinity, or triune)

That-I do believe.

 

[P4g4nite]

I have been taught that a cult is any religion that practices worshiping and putting their faith in anyone other than God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit (the trinity, or triune)

That-I do believe.

Sounds like a mix between 1, 2, 3 and 4 on the cult ID....perhaps 10, 13 and 14 too

 

[Spike~]

I have been taught that a cult is any religion that practices worshiping and putting their faith in anyone other than God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit (the trinity, or triune)

That-I do believe.

Then you, my dear, have been sorely brainwashed. Perhaps you should check your paticular cult against Volos's list. See just who the cult really is.

There are several definitions for "cult". Using the most liberal ones, you could classify every religion on earth as a "cult".

Personally, I think a cult is more like the one David Koresh had, at the Branch Dividian Compound in Waco, Texas. That was a cult. Or that Heaven's Gate cult. The one in which all of it's members commited mass suicide in 1997. I believe some 60-70 ppl died that day. Those are true cults. And, IMO, anyone who would consider any other religion differing from their own a "cult", needs to be institutionalized for either stupidity or brainwashing.

 

[ravenwolf]

You know I always kinda thought that about Christianty....i mean from my experience i was definalty brainwashed, isolated(no secular music, books, etc., no non-christian friends, no non- christian anything basically), sex is most definatly something that is dictated with teachings and installing feelings of guilt for even such things as touching yourself or kissing, installing feelings of guilt to tithe, questioning things looked down upon, and quite a lot more that go along with that list. And these are from your normal churches..i went to two an assemblies of God and a Lutheran. So anyway, after i deconverted i realised alot of these things and realised for the first time i was actually staring to think on my own, I did a search on cults and christianty to see if i was'nt just being silly with this idea , but i found areally interesting site. Now of course it differs from sect to sect as to which apply and the severity of.

http://www.mindspring.com/~bab5/BIB/cult.htm

Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[ravenwolf]

oh yeah, and i also was brainwashed to believe anyother religion but mine(including catholicism) was satanic and that these other religions were "unknowingly" worshipping satan and being decieved by him. It just boggles my mind how i was ever like that. God it feels so good to think again!!!

 

[ravenwolf]

Personally, I think a cult is more like the one David Koresh had, at the Branch Dividian Compound in Waco, Texas. That was a cult. Or that Heaven's Gate cult. The one in which all of it's members commited mass suicide in 1997. I believe some 60-70 ppl died that day. Those are true cults. And, IMO, anyone who would consider any other religion differing from their own a "cult", needs to be institutionalized for either stupidity or brainwashing.

I think cult is in degrees of severity. Ok like the ones your talking about would be dangerouse cults.....whereas i think christianity as having these definitions of a cult but they are not severe or dangerous (only maybe to a weak mind) is at the other end. So its like christianity to me would be very mildly cult-ish where as a cult like mentioned above is very extreme and definalty a cult , no doubt at all. Just my thoughts
Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[shastajade]

Then you, my dear, have been sorely brainwashed. Perhaps you should check your paticular cult against Volos's list. See just who the cult really is.

There are several definitions for "cult". Using the most liberal ones, you could classify every religion on earth as a "cult".

Personally, I think a cult is more like the one David Koresh had, at the Branch Dividian Compound in Waco, Texas. That was a cult. Or that Heaven's Gate cult. The one in which all of it's members commited mass suicide in 1997. I believe some 60-70 ppl died that day. Those are true cults. And, IMO, anyone who would consider any other religion differing from their own a "cult", needs to be institutionalized for either stupidity or brainwashing.

7 ELEMENTS OF A CULTIC GROUP
​

1) A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority

2) A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as "the truth"

3) A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challenging

4) A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the group

5) A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate members

6) A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tactics

7) A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy lives


True Biblical christianity does not teach its followers to depend soly upon the members or "church" that they attend. It always teaches to follow Christ and no person. Cults always encouragement of following leaders of that cult. That they make the ultimate decision. Cults harm rather than heal. Cults destroy rather than build up. Cults deny the power of a higher diety called God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and encourage worship to another "diety" they call themselves, the moon, the stars, the sun, the earth etc etc, need I go on. A cult is a cult. Degrees mean nothing. Just because a cult is obvious about worshiping satan doesnt mean that the ones who make themselves out to look like they are doing right and sugarcoat their acts to encourage followers aren't cults too. You need spiritual discernment to determine what a cult is and what it isn't. Ultimatly, there is one God, and one only. The Bible states "Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess, that I am Lord of all". That is the God of the Bible speaking. The ONLY God.

 

[Risen Tree]

Isaac Bonewitz developed the cult evaluation form some years ago. It can be used on any religious group and evaluates on the various things that make a cult a cult. Unfortunately many Christian sects rate rather highly on the scale.



Try punching your favorite Christian sect through and see how they do. Rate each item and add up the total at the tend, the higher the total number the more cultish that group is.

Hmm. Time to rate my ex-church, just for curiosity sakes.

1. Internal Control - amount of internal political power exercised by leader(s) over members

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

8.

2. Wisdom Claimed - by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared about decisions

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

8.

3. Wisdom Credited - to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions made by leader(s)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

8.

4. Dogma - rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctrinal inflexibility

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

10.

5. Recruiting - emphasis put on attracting new members; * amount of proselytzing

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

8.

6. Front Groups - number of subsidiary groups using different names from that of the main group

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

10.

7. Wealth - amount of money &/or property desired or obtained; emphasis on member's donations

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

10. This place has cash flowing out of its ears.

8. Political Power - amount of external political influence desired or obtained

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

10. You don't want to know.

9. Sexual Manipulation - of members by leader(s); amount of control over sex lives of members

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

Don't know, but we could be talking a 9.

10. Censorship - amount of control over member's access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

Don't know.

11. Dropout Control - intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

10. I left last May and still get badgered.

12. Endorsement of Violence - when used by or for the group or its leader(s)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

Fortunately, this is a 2 or even a 1.

13. Paranoia - amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies, perceived power of opponents

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

10.

14. Grimness - amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines, or leader(s)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low -----------High

Dunno for sure, but this could easily be a 9.

WOW...this, uh, explains something....

 

[Anovah]

[/color][/font]

7 ELEMENTS OF A CULTIC GROUP ​

1) A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority

2) A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as "the truth"

3) A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challenging

4) A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the group

5) A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate members

6) A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tactics

7) A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy lives


True Biblical christianity does not teach its followers to depend soly upon the members or "church" that they attend. It always teaches to follow Christ and no person. Cults always encouragement of following leaders of that cult. That they make the ultimate decision. Cults harm rather than heal. Cults destroy rather than build up. Cults deny the power of a higher diety called God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and encourage worship to another "diety" they call themselves, the moon, the stars, the sun, the earth etc etc, need I go on. A cult is a cult. Degrees mean nothing. Just because a cult is obvious about worshiping satan doesnt mean that the ones who make themselves out to look like they are doing right and sugarcoat their acts to encourage followers aren't cults too. You need spiritual discernment to determine what a cult is and what it isn't. Ultimatly, there is one God, and one only. The Bible states "Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess, that I am Lord of all". That is the God of the Bible speaking. The ONLY God.

So are you saying any religion that does not subscribe to the ONLY God is a cult? Or must it be detrimental as well?

The only difference I am hearing between a cult and religion is that religion is the cult you believe to be truth.

 

[Dale]

Volos in post #6:
<< Isaac Bonewitz developed the cult evaluation form some years ago. It can be used on any religious group and evaluates on the various things that make a cult a cult. Unfortunately many Christian sects rate rather highly on the scale. >>
*
Thanks, Volos. I think this scale is of value.
*
Rising Tree in post #14:
<< Hmm. Time to rate my ex-church, just for curiosity sakes. >>
<< 10. I left last May and still get badgered. >> You have my sympathy!
<< WOW...this, uh, explains something.... >>

 

[Dale]

Spike in post #9:
<< Personally, I think a cult is more like the one David Koresh had, at the Branch Dividian Compound in Waco, Texas. That was a cult. Or that Heaven's Gate cult. The one in which all of it's members commited mass suicide in 1997. I believe some 60-70 ppl died that day. Those are true cults. >>
*
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Jim Jones' People's Temple, with their famous mass suicide in Guyana that killed a US Congressman and created an international incident.

 

[Dale]

Another characteristic of many cults, authoritarian and secretive organizations, is that often people prominent in the cult have left or been forced out. That is, the very people who helped build it up either become disillusioned when they see the results or are forced out over some disagreement with the cult leader.
*
This is true of Scientology. For instance, Scientology uses a device called the E-Meter, which is supposed to be a lie detector that really works. Oddly, the E-Meter is not mentioned in Hubbard's most famous book because he was arguing about it with the FDA when that book came out. The E-Meter was invented by a man named Mathiesson, later forced out of Dianetics/Scientology. A long list of other leaders and associates of Hubbard left in much the same way.
*
For some cults, this matter of prominent members being expelled or forced to leave may only be the results of harsh demands for absolute loyalty. In short, it isn't that hard to be thrown out. In the case of Scientology, when Hubbard was alive, Hubbard may have had a deliberate strategy of destroying every other prominent member of the organization to ensure that no one would ever replace him. When Hubbard died, the Church of Scientology was left in the hands of 21 year olds, unusual in an organization of that size.

 

[Ryal Kane]

Classic signs of cults seem to fit into the BITE acronym.

They try to control behaviour, information, time and emotions of members.
Often based aorund a single, infallible figure.
There are some good books on the topic. I recommend Steven Hassan, former cultist, now psychologist.

Also an interesting anecdote: There was an organization called the Cult Awareness Network, which kept an eye out on cults, helped people who'd left etc. They started being critical of Scientology. Scientology piled lawsuit upon lawsuit, not to win, but do bankrupt them through court fees. They went bankrupt and were purchased by a company. The company was run by Scientologists. They then continued to run the CAN, with same phoneline and website, removing anything bad about scientology, damning all former members of the CAN. It's scary.

Ryal Kane

 

[Ryal Kane]

Recommended link on cults
http://www.freedomofmind.com

Cult awareness network mentioned above. (not recommended)
http://www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/

Ryal Kane