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No personal attack intended.....just Paul's words.....sorry if they hurtThe transition to personal attacks is duly noted.
Paul teaches that to the natural man scripture is foolishness because scripture is spiritually discerned....The transition to personal attacks is duly noted.
Paul teaches that to the natural man scripture is foolishness because scripture is spiritually discerned....
However, Paul's words are true unless you can prove otherwise....
Ran77 said:Verified:
Based on Acts 11: 26 we can reliably state that Christians are disciples (pupils/adherents) of Jesus. Or in other words a person who studies the teachings of Jesus Christ or follows Him.
Common Use:
Based on the definitions in dictionary.com a Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ or exemplifies His teachings.
Until further support can be provided from the Bible a Christian is a person who fits into one does one of the following: studies the teachings of Jesus, follows Jesus, believes in Jesus, or exemplifies the teachings of Jesus. At this point in the discussion, any other criteria for determining what and who is a Christian is not Biblical, but is instead a man-made construct.
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/defining-christianity.7926155/page-10#post-69085553Ran77 said:According to Acts 11: 26 Christian is the name given to Christ's disciples. It requires the interpretation of mortal man to change that to Believer in Christ. The Greek word for disciple means both pupil and adherent - not necessarily believer. Although, I think that one of the definitions for Christian in the English language does mention something about believers in Christ.
It is not verified that all disciples are Christian, you said so yourself:
Here are some passages of Scripture that address the fact that just being a student of Jesus (studying the teachings), or exemplifying Jesus does not make you a Christian:
John Chapter 6
Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
Matthew 13:1-13
When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it,who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
I didn't say that all disciples are Christian. That is you adding something to my comments and thereby changing the meaning. Much in the way that words have been inserted into the understanding of the scriptures which changes them as well. I find this to be a serious problem among the Christian sects. (Not that it's confined to just Christians, but that is who we are discussing in the Christian Apologetics forum.)
Ran77 said:Until further support can be provided from the Bible a Christian is a person who fits into one does one of the following: studies the teachings of Jesus, follows Jesus, believes in Jesus, or exemplifies the teachings of Jesus. At this point in the discussion, any other criteria for determining what and who is a Christian is not Biblical, but is instead a man-made construct.
Why are you sad? The point I was trying to make is that a Christian isn't a person who fits just one of the following that you have stated here:
A Christian is all of those things and then some. A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus is who he says He is, that He died for their sins so they could become righteous before God and cleansed of their sin. A Christian is someone who will follow Jesus and learn from Him and understand His teachings. A Christian is someone who exemplifies the teachings of Jesus because Jesus lives through them and they produce good fruit because they are a part of Him. They aren't a Christian because they exemplify Jesus in their works that are done through their own effort.
In Mormon theology, Jesus and Satan are brothers.If someone within the Mormon Church truly hopes in Jesus Christ then it's not out of the question that this person may be truly saved. But that's a far cry from endorsing Mormonism wholesale as a legitimate Christian denomination. It will never be. Mormons believe in the Lordship of Christ - which is good. In that sense there may be true believers among the mormons. But they also believe a bunch of baloney too.
I'm going to try this again. Thanks go to serious for helping phrase the OP so it will fit within the forum guidelines.
Many denominations use a statement of faith or some sort of creed to determine who is and who is not a Christian. One of the most common of these is the Nicene Creed, but it is far from the only one. While each aspect of the creed can be shown to have been drawn from an interpretation of a section of scripture, what seems to be missing is specific scriptural support for the concepts that are presented as an essential aspect of Christianity. Is there any scriptural support for a specific selection of core beliefs, or specific interpretations of these verses, which define what is necessary for salvation as opposed to simply ancillary beliefs which are left open for the individual and various denominations to interpret?
I'm going to try this again. Thanks go to serious for helping phrase the OP so it will fit within the forum guidelines.
Many denominations use a statement of faith or some sort of creed to determine who is and who is not a Christian. One of the most common of these is the Nicene Creed, but it is far from the only one. While each aspect of the creed can be shown to have been drawn from an interpretation of a section of scripture, what seems to be missing is specific scriptural support for the concepts that are presented as an essential aspect of Christianity. Is there any scriptural support for a specific selection of core beliefs, or specific interpretations of these verses, which define what is necessary for salvation as opposed to simply ancillary beliefs which are left open for the individual and various denominations to interpret?
My Scriptural support is all of the New Testament.
If someone within the Mormon Church truly hopes in Jesus Christ then it's not out of the question that this person may be truly saved. But that's a far cry from endorsing Mormonism wholesale as a legitimate Christian denomination. It will never be. Mormons believe in the Lordship of Christ - which is good. In that sense there may be true believers among the mormons. But they also believe a bunch of baloney too.
Daniel 12:4 (NIV)
But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."
Humans in our age are all knowledge seekers, as predicted in the verse above.
From a certain perspective, the Bible can be categorized into two parts. 1) The salvation message, and 2) other information as knowledge.
God allows the deviation of the second part which is the knowledge. It's thus natural that end time humans are divided over opinion onto the knowledge especially the mysterious concepts such as predestination and so forth. It is because we have more than 6 billion human minds on earth.
The salvation message on the other hand doesn't allow deviation as this is how a human can be saved. If this is twisted, it is called a heresy instead of a denomination.
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