Deep-rooted Worldliness

[Nartof]

I grew up in a society where people generally hold an atheist view. The vast progress of science and technology gives us more and more reason to be pride, to further the step of "Disenchantment" and to think that we human really have the ability to control all things and God is not helpful to us. As a member in this era, especially in a country that is without God for thousands of years, I found that my faith was built up mere feelings: I thought Christ is God simply because I thought the love he displays cannot be found in any other man on earth. However, my faith was not strengthened by knowledge. If you ask me some simple questions like why evolutionism, which was taught as truth in Chinese high school, is wrong, I cannot answer you because I am also confused. Under the big influence of "Disenchantment", I feel it really hard to believe the miracles recorded both in the old and the new testament.


There is a further point to be elaborated. Living in a corrupt society where the evil of man is ruthlessly displayed everyday, I always held a dream to change it and make it a better place like the US. So the advent of Jesus let me feel that I really need this man to carry on, to keep fighting with this evil world. You can see that I was trading Christ for something, that I still put my hope in this life, that I was doing idolatry. I used Christ to accomplish my dream.


These few months I grew better, I see the huge difference between idealism and faith. Therefore I think this is the most important stage after Christ came into my life. I want to overthrow my idolatry. I want to set my hope in the world to come. But I just haven't accumulated enough power to achieve them. I still set my mind on earthly things, desire the praise of man rather than the praise of God. However, I really thank God to let me see this problem. Else I will relapse unconsciously like some of my friends did. God also provide me some means to win this battle: I accidentally found a book that is just in time. It's called The Way of the Modern World, by Craig M.Gay. It deals with the problem I am facing: Why idealism is essentially a false religion and how to really achieve separation, not only in the surface like be away from fleshly desires, but also in our soul to really treat God as God and realize our pride will ultimately leads to destruction.


I haven't finished this book. But I think the most important thing is that God will be pleased to save me, to help me fight this battle. So I do really need your prayer. It will be really nice if you can give me some advice on how to win this battle against my deep-rooted worldliness.

P.S. I have been a professing christian 8 months ago, I have been reading the bible, attending sermons. I know some basic principles of christian faith, but I now I feel I need deepr experience and teaching for me to really see the vastness of the grace of God.

 

[heymikey80]

Philip Yancey, "Rumors of Another World"

I can tell you, I came by this from a direction in philosophy that exposed the limitations of science, why science fails to describe things like individuality, heroism, narrative, good & evil, ethics, morality, love, even thought with precision that would be properly called science -- "hard science". If that interests you, the view from ethical philosophy appears in the scholarly work, "After Virtue", by Alasdair MacIntyre. This is not a devotional work: it is coldly serious philosophy. But it's probably a big factor in why I'm a Christian. I found MacIntyre's reasoning was great; his solution to the problem seemed a bit shallow, and as I probed further the light shone so brightly on early Christianity that it seemed much more viable.

I'd also say, you never really escape worldly thinking -- but your growth forms a bridge from which you can draw others along. I think this is what Jesus meant by founding "the Church" -- a congregation of mutually discipling people, not a building to view artwork.

 

[1watchman]

Look up always, and come to know and trust the Lord Jesus! He will never fail a sincere seeker.

- 1 Watchman

 

[salida]

Science supports Genesis
http://josephmastropaolo.com/index.html

http://intelligentdesignfacts.com/

(more scientists intelligent design)
http://www.y-origins.com/index.php?p=home_more
Astronomy a fined tuned universe
http://www.y-origins.com/index.php?p=home_more2
(the odds)
http://y-origins.com/OLDSITE/pdf_links/18_22.pdf

 

[salida]

More info. on science:

Why everything can’t be proven scientifically
Many people think that if something can't be proved scientifically then is completely false and doesn't exist. But this is a myth. The Scientific method is not the only way to prove the validity of something. It everything was like this then you can't prove that Abraham Lincoln was the president of the U.S because you can't repeat this event that belongs to the past. Also you can't prove scientifically that you had a test last Wednesday at AM, because you can't repeat it again in a controlled manner where you can register observations and data. Once it happens it is history. Anything that can't be proved scientifically can be proved by the historical method or the evidential method, which includes oral testimonies, physical testimonies. This method is used in the courts of the whole world to prove evidence and is the only one that is applied in historical events. The way that was proven that The scientific method is limited and you can't proved the events mentioned before.
Why everything can’t be explained scientifically
But can't everything be explained by science? The only problem is that the conclusions reached by scientific methodologies or theories are not what we would like to conclude because they leave us feeling incomplete or uncomfortable.
For example:
"Why are we here?"
Science's answer: "To grow, reproduce, propagate the species and ultimately be successful in our current social construct."
"Where did the universe come from?"
Science's answer: "A singularity of infinite mass in zero volume. Within this singularity were all dimensions of physical space as well as other dimensions including time and, perhaps, undiscovered dimensions not fully understood or perceived by us yet."
"Where did we come from?"
Science's answer: "An organic soup of molecules existed in concentrated areas in the Earth's oceans and, over the course of an inconceivably long amount of time (approx 1.3 billion years) these organic molecules bonded to each other in such a pattern as to be able to reproduce in a rudimentary way. After another inconceivable amount of time (approx 3.2 billion years) a series of genetic mutations, transmutations and amalgamations of cellular constituents took place between these framework organic molecules that developed into increasingly complex organic structures. This process which lasted an inconceivable amount of time has culminated with human beings."
"What is happiness?"
Science's answer: "Happiness is a state of consciousness that occurs in the brain based on neural signals and neurochemicals that respond to positive stimuli."

(religious people started the discoveries in science)
www.adherents.com/people/100_scientists.html
http://www.trueorigin.org/abio.asp
http://creation.com/scientists-alive-today-who-accept-the-biblical-account-of-creation

 

[oi_antz]

I grew up in a society where people generally hold an atheist view. The vast progress of science and technology gives us more and more reason to be pride, to further the step of "Disenchantment" and to think that we human really have the ability to control all things and God is not helpful to us. As a member in this era, especially in a country that is without God for thousands of years, I found that my faith was built up mere feelings: I thought Christ is God simply because I thought the love he displays cannot be found in any other man on earth. However, my faith was not strengthened by knowledge. If you ask me some simple questions like why evolutionism, which was taught as truth in Chinese high school, is wrong, I cannot answer you because I am also confused. Under the big influence of "Disenchantment", I feel it really hard to believe the miracles recorded both in the old and the new testament.


There is a further point to be elaborated. Living in a corrupt society where the evil of man is ruthlessly displayed everyday, I always held a dream to change it and make it a better place like the US. So the advent of Jesus let me feel that I really need this man to carry on, to keep fighting with this evil world. You can see that I was trading Christ for something, that I still put my hope in this life, that I was doing idolatry. I used Christ to accomplish my dream.


These few months I grew better, I see the huge difference between idealism and faith. Therefore I think this is the most important stage after Christ came into my life. I want to overthrow my idolatry. I want to set my hope in the world to come. But I just haven't accumulated enough power to achieve them. I still set my mind on earthly things, desire the praise of man rather than the praise of God. However, I really thank God to let me see this problem. Else I will relapse unconsciously like some of my friends did. God also provide me some means to win this battle: I accidentally found a book that is just in time. It's called The Way of the Modern World, by Craig M.Gay. It deals with the problem I am facing: Why idealism is essentially a false religion and how to really achieve separation, not only in the surface like be away from fleshly desires, but also in our soul to really treat God as God and realize our pride will ultimately leads to destruction.


I haven't finished this book. But I think the most important thing is that God will be pleased to save me, to help me fight this battle. So I do really need your prayer. It will be really nice if you can give me some advice on how to win this battle against my deep-rooted worldliness.

P.S. I have been a professing christian 8 months ago, I have been reading the bible, attending sermons. I know some basic principles of christian faith, but I now I feel I need deepr experience and teaching for me to really see the vastness of the grace of God.

Hi Nartof, I must say that your head seems to be very mature, it is refreshing actually to read what you have said! I only want to comment on one thing you said here, and I hope you don't mind how pedantic it is. You said:

"I accidentally found a book that is just in time."

From my understanding of how God works, which has come through experience, it would be better to say:

"God brought a book to me just in time."

See the difference is between you being the creator of your destiny compared to God being the creator of your destiny. I think if you can get your head around that then you'll advance your stage of faith very quickly.

You would find by exercising this that you can praise God for every little thing in your life, and in fact by doing this you are worshiping Him. I think this is what Jesus meant when He said the greatest commandment is to love the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind. The second of course is to love your brother as much as you love yourself. That might be more difficult in your culture, I just don't know. What I do know is that a prayer of a saint is always heard, so you should strive to become a saint. Let us pray.

Dear heavenly Father, we thank you so much for the privilege we have to approach you using the name of your holy son Jesus. We pray to you in His name for help in Nartof's life, that you will help him bring the love of Christ into his world by molding him into a saint, perfect and blameless in your sight, a fit body for the Holy Spirit to indwell. We pray that the Spirit of Christ will be real in the people around him, that the Spirit of Christ would invoke in Nartof the love and compassion that is Christ Himself. Father we pray that when people look at Nartof, they will see the Spirit of Christ and will reflect the love upon him. We pray for peace in every direction, we pray for your protection upon him as he boldly takes your word to the people around him, may his message be received with gladness and may his words be soft yet precise. We pray for your presence to be visible to him at all times and for the assurance of your love to be upon his mind. We commend his entire life into your hands that you will make of him what you desire him to be. We pray sincerely to your holiness for everyone's best interest's, and humbly commit these request's to your care. Thank you Lord, may all praise in heaven and earth be given to you. Amen.

 

[heron]

So the advent of Jesus let me feel that I really need this man to carry on, to keep fighting with this evil world.

Hi Nartof, I must say that your head seems to be very mature, it is refreshing actually to read what you have said!

I agree... intriguing.

"God brought a book to me just in time."

God is our helper. You recognized some error in leaning on Him, but it is not complete error. God's Word shows Him eager to protect us when we set our minds toward Him.

Think about a life spent helping people. If you were feeding orphans, then there would be no guilt in asking God for help, as it would be in line with His desires too.

If you were working to make sure your children were fed and had shoes that helped them walk without injury, then gaining income is not a selfish thing. God helping you support your family is something that you might find miracles in.

Most of the miracles in the Bible were not random, but compassionate. The Red Sea parted to free people from slavery (and ensuing death by battle). The loaves and fishes multiplied to keep hungry people from fainting in the sun.

Most of us see tiny miracles and coincidences regularly, so the longer you are a Christian, the more miraculous assistance you will notice.

I feel that God is not afraid to mix the natural with the miraculous, since He knows the cracks in the earth and the plans of men that are waiting to erupt. I have no problem with seeing the two combine in perfect timing to achieve needed results. That, to me, is still miraculous -- because it shows God's love and concern for the details in our lives.

Love is a miracle.

 

[kelly_lynn]

God has put such a burden on my heart for young Christians. But it seems like your doing all the right things. Dont give up on Him and He wont give up on you! Be filled with the Spirit, rejoice in the Lord, thank the Father always, and seek His face! These are the things we are called to do! God will do the rest! Also, dont allow yourself to feel condemned! This is so important! prayin 4ya!

 

[eachallberg]

The world does not know Love (John 17:25 / 1 John 4:16).
But still the Father loves the world (John 3:16).

Just not its ways.

Believe in the miracles in the N.T. because you can do them.
"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."
(John 14:12)

But you confess its hard to believe. That is ok, your Heavenly Family accepts anyone who has faith that maybe weak.

A certain Brother, renouncing the world, and giving the things he owned to the poor, kept a few things in his own possession. He came to an Elder telling him what happened. The Elder told him to go to the market and buy some meat, and place it on his naked body and return to him. When the Brother did what he was told, dogs, and birds of prey tore at his body. When he returned to the Elder, the Brother showed his lacerated body to the Elder. Then the Elder told him, "Those who renounce the world and want to retain possession of money are assailed and torn apart by devils just as you are".
(Wisdom of the desert)

"Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."
(Luke 12:15)

Try reading the N.T. daily for bread.

Peace.

 

[oi_antz]

I grew up in a society where people generally hold an atheist view. The vast progress of science and technology gives us more and more reason to be pride, to further the step of "Disenchantment" and to think that we human really have the ability to control all things and God is not helpful to us. As a member in this era, especially in a country that is without God for thousands of years, I found that my faith was built up mere feelings: I thought Christ is God simply because I thought the love he displays cannot be found in any other man on earth. However, my faith was not strengthened by knowledge. If you ask me some simple questions like why evolutionism, which was taught as truth in Chinese high school, is wrong, I cannot answer you because I am also confused. Under the big influence of "Disenchantment", I feel it really hard to believe the miracles recorded both in the old and the new testament.


There is a further point to be elaborated. Living in a corrupt society where the evil of man is ruthlessly displayed everyday, I always held a dream to change it and make it a better place like the US. So the advent of Jesus let me feel that I really need this man to carry on, to keep fighting with this evil world. You can see that I was trading Christ for something, that I still put my hope in this life, that I was doing idolatry. I used Christ to accomplish my dream.


These few months I grew better, I see the huge difference between idealism and faith. Therefore I think this is the most important stage after Christ came into my life. I want to overthrow my idolatry. I want to set my hope in the world to come. But I just haven't accumulated enough power to achieve them. I still set my mind on earthly things, desire the praise of man rather than the praise of God. However, I really thank God to let me see this problem. Else I will relapse unconsciously like some of my friends did. God also provide me some means to win this battle: I accidentally found a book that is just in time. It's called The Way of the Modern World, by Craig M.Gay. It deals with the problem I am facing: Why idealism is essentially a false religion and how to really achieve separation, not only in the surface like be away from fleshly desires, but also in our soul to really treat God as God and realize our pride will ultimately leads to destruction.


I haven't finished this book. But I think the most important thing is that God will be pleased to save me, to help me fight this battle. So I do really need your prayer. It will be really nice if you can give me some advice on how to win this battle against my deep-rooted worldliness.

P.S. I have been a professing christian 8 months ago, I have been reading the bible, attending sermons. I know some basic principles of christian faith, but I now I feel I need deepr experience and teaching for me to really see the vastness of the grace of God.

Hi Nartof, I hope you are doing ok. I was reading the story of Joseph today and one passage stood out as saying what I was telling you, to praise God for everything in your life. If you remember, Joseph was the second youngest of Jacob's children when his brothers sold him into slavery in Egypt and told Jacob that he had been killed by a wild beast. He had a gift for interpreting dreams and found favor with Pharaoh. In fact he became second to Pharaoh in all of Egypt. Of course the family did not know this. Then one year during famine Jacob sent his sons to buy some grain from Egypt. Joseph recognized them and you can read the story from there:

Genesis 44

Joseph’s Silver Cup

1 When his brothers were ready to leave, Joseph gave these instructions to his palace manager: “Fill each of their sacks with as much grain as they can carry, and put each man’s money back into his sack. 2 Then put my personal silver cup at the top of the youngest brother’s sack, along with the money for his grain.” So the manager did as Joseph instructed him.
3 The brothers were up at dawn and were sent on their journey with their loaded donkeys. 4 But when they had gone only a short distance and were barely out of the city, Joseph said to his palace manager, “Chase after them and stop them. When you catch up with them, ask them, ‘Why have you repaid my kindness with such evil? 5 Why have you stolen my master’s silver cup,[a] which he uses to predict the future? What a wicked thing you have done!’”

6 When the palace manager caught up with the men, he spoke to them as he had been instructed.

7 “What are you talking about?” the brothers responded. “We are your servants and would never do such a thing! 8 Didn’t we return the money we found in our sacks? We brought it back all the way from the land of Canaan. Why would we steal silver or gold from your master’s house? 9 If you find his cup with any one of us, let that man die. And all the rest of us, my lord, will be your slaves.”

10 “That’s fair,” the man replied. “But only the one who stole the cup will be my slave. The rest of you may go free.”

11 They all quickly took their sacks from the backs of their donkeys and opened them. 12 The palace manager searched the brothers’ sacks, from the oldest to the youngest. And the cup was found in Benjamin’s sack! 13 When the brothers saw this, they tore their clothing in despair. Then they loaded their donkeys again and returned to the city.

14 Joseph was still in his palace when Judah and his brothers arrived, and they fell to the ground before him. 15 “What have you done?” Joseph demanded. “Don’t you know that a man like me can predict the future?”

16 Judah answered, “Oh, my lord, what can we say to you? How can we explain this? How can we prove our innocence? God is punishing us for our sins. My lord, we have all returned to be your slaves—all of us, not just our brother who had your cup in his sack.”

17 “No,” Joseph said. “I would never do such a thing! Only the man who stole the cup will be my slave. The rest of you may go back to your father in peace.”

Judah Speaks for His Brothers

18 Then Judah stepped forward and said, “Please, my lord, let your servant say just one word to you. Please, do not be angry with me, even though you are as powerful as Pharaoh himself.
19 “My lord, previously you asked us, your servants, ‘Do you have a father or a brother?’ 20 And we responded, ‘Yes, my lord, we have a father who is an old man, and his youngest son is a child of his old age. His full brother is dead, and he alone is left of his mother’s children, and his father loves him very much.’

21 “And you said to us, ‘Bring him here so I can see him with my own eyes.’ 22 But we said to you, ‘My lord, the boy cannot leave his father, for his father would die.’ 23 But you told us, ‘Unless your youngest brother comes with you, you will never see my face again.’

24 “So we returned to your servant, our father, and told him what you had said. 25 Later, when he said, ‘Go back again and buy us more food,’ 26 we replied, ‘We can’t go unless you let our youngest brother go with us. We’ll never get to see the man’s face unless our youngest brother is with us.’

27 “Then my father said to us, ‘As you know, my wife had two sons, 28 and one of them went away and never returned. Doubtless he was torn to pieces by some wild animal. I have never seen him since. 29 Now if you take his brother away from me, and any harm comes to him, you will send this grieving, white-haired man to his grave.’

30 “And now, my lord, I cannot go back to my father without the boy. Our father’s life is bound up in the boy’s life. 31 If he sees that the boy is not with us, our father will die. We, your servants, will indeed be responsible for sending that grieving, white-haired man to his grave. 32 My lord, I guaranteed to my father that I would take care of the boy. I told him, ‘If I don’t bring him back to you, I will bear the blame forever.’

33 “So please, my lord, let me stay here as a slave instead of the boy, and let the boy return with his brothers. 34 For how can I return to my father if the boy is not with me? I couldn’t bear to see the anguish this would cause my father!”

Specifically the following part demonstrates the type of faith I was talking about:

Genesis 45

Joseph Reveals His Identity

Joseph could stand it no longer. There were many people in the room, and he said to his attendants, “Out, all of you!” So he was alone with his brothers when he told them who he was. 2 Then he broke down and wept. He wept so loudly the Egyptians could hear him, and word of it quickly carried to Pharaoh’s palace.
3 “I am Joseph!” he said to his brothers. “Is my father still alive?” But his brothers were speechless! They were stunned to realize that Joseph was standing there in front of them. 4 “Please, come closer,” he said to them. So they came closer. And he said again, “I am Joseph, your brother, whom you sold into slavery in Egypt. 5 But don’t be upset, and don’t be angry with yourselves for selling me to this place. It was God who sent me here ahead of you to preserve your lives. 6 This famine that has ravaged the land for two years will last five more years, and there will be neither plowing nor harvesting. 7 God has sent me ahead of you to keep you and your families alive and to preserve many survivors. 8 So it was God who sent me here, not you! And he is the one who made me an adviser to Pharaoh—the manager of his entire palace and the governor of all Egypt.

I hope this helps to inspire you. Though it might be hard sometimes to understand why God allows His people to endure hardship, He is the source of wisdom and when His plans come to light it is then that His wisdom is made known and revered.