Decline of Civilization?

[nikolai_42]

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all—security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

 - Edward Gibbon

 Does that quote strike a chord with anyone? Does anybody else see any parallels with us today in Modern Western Civilization (speaking, generally, of course)? What are your thoughts on this quote itself? On how applicable it is to Western thought today?

 

[HWS Jim]

Was it Ben Franklin who said: If you give up your freedoms for security, you deserve neither and shall lose both. Methinks we are heading for some interesting times.

 

[Wolseley]

People who have been comfortable for too long are always willing to trade freedom for security.

That's how the feudal system got started.

 

[Gunny]

Today at 10:14 AM Wolseley said this in Post #3

People who have been comfortable for too long are always willing to trade freedom for security.

That's how the feudal system got started.

You are speaking truth Brother!

 

[Freodin]

Today at 04:14 PM Wolseley said this in Post #3

People who have been comfortable for too long are always willing to trade freedom for security.

That's how the feudal system got started.

Ouch, that hurt. But I can really picture you: standing before some Hun, Magjar, Avar or Norse invader, praising your freedom until you are cut down.

 

[Wolseley]

 

[Defender of the Faith 777]

I saw a sign where the "b" had fallen off, so it read "Godless America." That was the greatest sign ever. Close reading of the Bible has determined that the Iraqi regime is closer to God and His will than is America. Please stop advocating a war against your betters.

 

[aggie03]

Today at 01:05 PM Defender of the Faith 777 said this in Post #7

I saw a sign where the "b" had fallen off, so it read "Godless America." That was the greatest sign ever. Close reading of the Bible has determined that the Iraqi regime is closer to God and His will than is America. Please stop advocating a war against your betters.

Sorry, but I feel as though I must disagree with you.  I am still questioning whether or not a Christian should advocate war, but as far as the Iraqi regime being closer to God and His will then America is a comparison that cannot, and should not be made. 

First, you are assuming that every Iraqi believes and feels the same way about everything.  Not only this, you must also assume that they all do the exact same things with the exact same convictions as their motive. 

Second, you are assuming all of the same things about all of the individuals who are in America. 

Third, the word of God clearly illustrates that you cannot ride into salvation on the heel of any organization no matter what it claims - whether it be some form of denomination (which I don't believe in by the way), a Bible study group, or even an independent nation. 

I just don't see how you can make such a statement, not because we are currently at war with Iraq, but because the logic for the argument is flawed, I believe, according to what the Scriptures teach. 

If you could explain your viewpoint better, that might help?

 

[Michael0701]

Teenager,

Are you confusing a regime with a faith, cause I don't see the US at war with the islamic faith, rather it's at war with a brutal dictator and his puppets. Maybe you are a little confused?

 

 

***sniff, sniff.....do I smell a troll?*****

 

[Defender of the Faith 777]

**** you need million dollar bombs to kill puppets

 

[Defender of the Faith 777]

the theory of God is so superficial, it is just a man made idea to help us compensate for our lack of understanding of human existant. People just need something to hold on to so they created a mythical figure to worship. God is just a figment of our imagination to make us feel better.

 

[Wolseley]

Please stop advocating a war against your betters.

Is that sort of like, "Please start showing some respect for your elders"?

 

[gwyyn]

Today at 01:39 PM Wolseley said this in Post #13


Is that sort of like, "Please start showing some respect for your elders"?

 

Hey whatever happened to that rule in society, boy I used to get a bop on head if I didn't answer my elders in respectful tone.

 

[aggie03]

Today at 01:29 PM Defender of the Faith 777 said this in Post #9

God hates you

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life."

I thought that when it said the world, it meant everything and everyone?  This doesn't mean that God won't punish those who work iniquity, but it does mean that He loves them. 

That was also an interesting response to an honest question about the logic you used in one of your posts.  Sorry if I offended you in any way, but I believe that the logic used in the previous post was flawed, I was just trying to understand what you meant. 

 


 

 

[Defender of the Faith 777]

No, it's not. It's more like, "Don't make war with people who are in possession of superior religious interpretations in relation to yours."

 

[TheBear]

[notroll][/notroll]

 

[Freodin]

DOTF777, are you feeling well? This does not sound like your usual self.

 

[Gabriel]

That is NOT Defender!! I know him well and he would never talk this trash. MODS, to the batcave!!

 

[TheBear]

I have removed a few inappropriate posts here.

[notroll][/notroll]

 

[bluesonata]

Today at 09:55 AM nikolai_42 said this in Post #1

"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all—security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free."

 - Edward Gibbon

 Does that quote strike a chord with anyone? Does anybody else see any parallels with us today in Modern Western Civilization (speaking, generally, of course)? What are your thoughts on this quote itself? On how applicable it is to Western thought today?

Interesting and thought-provoking post, nikolai_42!  I could see the word "Americans" there in place of "Athenians"!