Deception?

[Proselyte]

I am curious if anyone else has thought perhaps there are non-Christians pretending to be so in this forum to sow discord.

I read things here about Christians giving the greenlight to:

1) abortion
2) same sex marriages
3) same sex couples adopting children
4) marijuana
5) masturbation
6) pre-marital sex
7) living with girlfriend/boyfriend before marriage
8) the Bible being flawed

what else have I left out?

The deception I can see, but it concerns me about Christians supporting the above. Granted, I perhaps all have struggled with a few of those issues, but to willfully advocate the above and be a disciple of Jesus seems quite contradictory. Though there are differences, I still seek fellowship with those Christians...

Thoughts?

 

[ebia]

None of the above views are uncontestably unChristian. I hold to some of them; are you going to say that I'm not a Christian?

Disagreeing with what you think is God's will is not the same as disagreeing with God.

 

[Pyrogenesis]

I think prehaps a better term would be 'compromise' (The bad sort). Of course it's essentially self-deception, but the important thing to note is that even people that support un-Biblical practices can be Christians. That's why we've got to be careful what we endorse, especially if we're invoking the name of Christ in doing so.

It's important to go to the Bible if we're going to make any sort of judgement on a particular behaviour. It's hard to be decieved if you're recieving revelation straight from God and His Word!

I personally think that all the points you made are fairly obvious things that Christians shouldn't endorse, but it does bear mentioning that it's OK to say "I don't know" in relation to something; you can't be expected to have formed an intelligent opinion (Anyone can have an unintelligent one) on every controversial topic.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Christianity comes in many forms.

Just because we don't agree on issues doesn't mean that some of us aren't Christians or that some of us are less Christian than others.

Debate is a wonderful thing. And diversity of ideas and opinions is what makes us strong.

 

[£amb]

I am curious if anyone else has thought perhaps there are non-Christians pretending to be so in this forum to sow discord.

Yes there are. I visit several other forums and have run across a few that have people visit other forums, especially christian sites, to stir up trouble. It's nothing new.

 

[Harlan Norris]

I am curious if anyone else has thought perhaps there are non-Christians pretending to be so in this forum to sow discord.

I read things here about Christians giving the greenlight to:

1) abortion
2) same sex marriages
3) same sex couples adopting children
4) marijuana
5) masturbation
6) pre-marital sex
7) living with girlfriend/boyfriend before marriage
8) the Bible being flawed

what else have I left out?

The deception I can see, but it concerns me about Christians supporting the above. Granted, I perhaps all have struggled with a few of those issues, but to willfully advocate the above and be a disciple of Jesus seems quite contradictory. Though there are differences, I still seek fellowship with those Christians...

Thoughts?

The Bible is clear on these subjects.However, we are proud and arrogant, and we believe in the day of judgement, we will tell God the error of his ways.The true believer loves God and willingly dispenses with the obvious transgressions.The rest neither believe nor love God,but themselves.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Thread re-opened after moving to Christian Philosophy and Ethics.

 

[intricatic]

Meh, regardless, if it's something that disagrees with God's Word, and it's something you're wholly convicted about, it shouldn't be that hard to argue your case. So I fail to see what the problem is.

 

[Proselyte]

Thread re-opened after moving to Christian Philosophy and Ethics.

I thought it was posted here in the first place.
Thank you for re-opening this thread. Much appreciated.

 

[HunterRose]

I am curious if anyone else has thought perhaps there are non-Christians pretending to be so in this forum to sow discord.

I read things here about Christians giving the greenlight to:

1) abortion
2) same sex marriages
3) same sex couples adopting children
4) marijuana
5) masturbation
6) pre-marital sex
7) living with girlfriend/boyfriend before marriage
8) the Bible being flawed

what else have I left out?

The deception I can see, but it concerns me about Christians supporting the above. Granted, I perhaps all have struggled with a few of those issues, but to willfully advocate the above and be a disciple of Jesus seems quite contradictory. Though there are differences, I still seek fellowship with those Christians...

Thoughts?

So…only people who agree with you can be Christians?

 

[Proselyte]

So…only people who agree with you can be Christians?

I didn't say that did I? I said I still seek fellowship with those *Christians*. I said it concerns me when *Christians* greenlight the mentioned items. I never once said they weren't Christians. I have heard people say I said that in this thread...reading comprehension must be at a low right now.
We all sin, we can't avoid it. But what concerns me is the acceptance of willful sin contrary to the Bible.

 

[dhuisjen2]

I am curious if anyone else has thought perhaps there are non-Christians pretending to be so in this forum to sow discord.

I read things here about Christians giving the greenlight to:

1) abortion
2) same sex marriages
3) same sex couples adopting children
4) marijuana
5) masturbation
6) pre-marital sex
7) living with girlfriend/boyfriend before marriage
8) the Bible being flawed

what else have I left out?

The deception I can see, but it concerns me about Christians supporting the above. Granted, I perhaps all have struggled with a few of those issues, but to willfully advocate the above and be a disciple of Jesus seems quite contradictory. Though there are differences, I still seek fellowship with those Christians...

Thoughts?

One of the great "card-carrying Liberal" theologians of pre-Nazi Germany, R. Bultmann, brought the term "kerygma" into use in the field, meaning the central core message of the religion that all the stories and laws were intended to direct the believer towards. This was done in conscious opposition to the original Fundamentalists, who believed that you could set up a litmus test of confessional issues to determine who had the right to use the term "Christian" as a self-description.

There's a lot about Bultmann's thought that I strongly disagree with (latent anti-semetism not being the least of his problems), but there is something useful about his basic approach. If someone believes in salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:9) and then following the "twin commandment of love" (e.g. Mark 12: 29-31) out of a heart of gratitude (e.g. Rom. 6:13), I would be entirely satisfied to let that person call him-/herself a Christian. Wouldn't you? If not, why not?

Regarding your "anti-Christian" issues listed here, 1, 3 and 4 were unknown to the world of the apostles and therefore we can only reason against them by our own inferences; 5 has always been so universal that there are not any strict commands against it; 2, 6 and 7 are relative to culturally variable definitions of marriage; and problems with 8 are based on cultural dilemas of the Medieval and Enlightenment periods. As you have pointed out, there are plenty of threads running on those subjects already. My point is that no one should assume to exclude others from God's grace through the work of Jesus Christ on those bases.

Peace, David

 

[ebia]

I didn't say that did I? I said I still seek fellowship with those *Christians*. I said it concerns me when *Christians* greenlight the mentioned items. I never once said they weren't Christians.

You began with:

I am curious if anyone else has thought perhaps there are non-Christians pretending to be so in this forum to sow discord.

so it's hardly suprising if some of the people who disagree with you on the points raised feel you are accusing them of only pretending to be Christian.

We all sin, we can't avoid it. But what concerns me is the acceptance of willful sin contrary to the Bible.

If I disagree that one or more of those are sins, then I'm not accepting sin, wilfully or otherwise, I'm disputing whether something is, or is not, sinful.

It seems to me that those who are willfully accepting sin are those who are doing nothing about the incredible poverty and injustice in the world, contrary to Christ's direct commandments to feed the hungry, cloth the naked,...

 

[BillyShears]

I smoked marijuana last night. I spent an hour staring at the smily icons; they were freaking me out. Then I had sex with my live in girlfriend. And I don't feel guilty or sinful at all. In fact, I feel rather refreshed.

No shock thread, just the truth. That's what we Christians are supposed to say, correct? The truth?

I was raised Christian, though as I've gotten older I've started to drift away from religion in favor of reason.

I'm no loser, or drug addict, or pervert . I actually think I got a better handle on my life when I openned my mind to influences outside of religion such as poetry, novels, music, art, etc... Life makes more sense now, and I'm happy.

Have you ever gotten high and listened to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band? It's great.

But that is why I'm on this website. I'm a Christian on the fence, with some serious questions, and I enjoy serious debate.

 

[intricatic]

I smoked marijuana last night. I spent an hour staring at the smily icons; they were freaking me out. Then I had sex with my live in girlfriend. And I don't feel guilty or sinful at all. In fact, I feel rather refreshed.

No shock thread, just the truth. That's what we Christians are supposed to say, correct? The truth?

I was raised Christian, though as I've gotten older I've started to drift away from religion in favor of reason.

I'm no loser, or drug addict, or pervert . I actually think I got a better handle on my life when I openned my mind to influences outside of religion such as poetry, novels, music, art, etc... Life makes more sense now, and I'm happy.

Have you ever gotten high and listened to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band? It's great.

But that is why I'm on this website. I'm a Christian on the fence, with some serious questions, and I enjoy serious debate.

Believe me; you're not the only Christian that feels this way about reason, poetry, novels, music, or art. But there is a difference between expanding one's horizons while still embracing the message of Christ and the nature of morality as it centers over our broken and corrupted nature, and giving into that corrupted nature.

 

[Proselyte]

Good replies, keep them coming.

 

[crazymichael]

I smoked marijuana last night. I spent an hour staring at the smily icons; they were freaking me out. Then I had sex with my live in girlfriend. And I don't feel guilty or sinful at all. In fact, I feel rather refreshed.

No shock thread, just the truth. That's what we Christians are supposed to say, correct? The truth?

I was raised Christian, though as I've gotten older I've started to drift away from religion in favor of reason.

I'm no loser, or drug addict, or pervert . I actually think I got a better handle on my life when I openned my mind to influences outside of religion such as poetry, novels, music, art, etc... Life makes more sense now, and I'm happy.

Have you ever gotten high and listened to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band? It's great.

But that is why I'm on this website. I'm a Christian on the fence, with some serious questions, and I enjoy serious debate.

I am on the same page as you Billy. I went to an awesome rock concert last night, drank too much, jumped around, and got knocked down. I live with my partner and we have premarital sex. I dont feel guilty at all either. I dont feel great today though, lol. My neck hurts and I have a big bruise on my elbow. There is some truth about me. I have trouble comprehending why God would punish me for these things that I do. I would consider myself a good person and I like help other people. I must be influenced by the devil. (jk)

I like the debate as well.

 

[Stinker]

I am on the same page as you Billy. I went to an awesome rock concert last night, drank too much, jumped around, and got knocked down. I live with my partner and we have premarital sex. I dont feel guilty at all either. I dont feel great today though, lol. My neck hurts and I have a big bruise on my elbow. There is some truth about me. I have trouble comprehending why God would punish me for these things that I do. I would consider myself a good person and I like help other people. I must be influenced by the devil. (jk)

I like the debate as well.

Do you think God wants you to focus on the negative things that came to your mind and which you then acted on? Or, do you think God would rather you focus on the positive things, which will not only keep yourself in God's light, but bring others into the light as well?

 

[Agape_]

I think that anyone who holds these principles are absolutly correct in their knowledge of God's character and his purpose for us. And I have to believe that if anyone rejects any of them are a little confised as to what God really expects from us. A lot of the arguements I am seeing right now come from a topic known as moral reletivism which is the belief that their is no absolute good or bad but that people have differant standards as to what is good or bad. I tell you now that this compromise is absolutly false, God has given us absolute truth and absolute morality to say that some things are good to some people and not good to others all the while both are acceptable to God is preposterous. God designed people to follow one law and one command and everthing listed in the first post clearly demonstrate some of the things that God has called each of us to do.

1) abortion
2) same sex marriages
3) same sex couples adopting children
4) marijuana
5) masturbation
6) pre-marital sex
7) living with girlfriend/boyfriend before marriage
8) the Bible being flawed

These itens are all of course condemded in the bible, maybe there are some which are not literally named, such as marijuana which was not known in the ancient world but all of them contain things that are harmful to christian believers. Abortions insult the sanctity of human life by saying that the life that God has given to this human being is cheapened by the fact that they are not yet mature, it is the same thing as saying a 9 year old child is less important than a 30 year old adult there just isnt any distinction of life when it comes to age. The bible makes it clear the homosexuality are abominations to God and are wrong the bible tells us so and the adoption of children by same sex couples is wrong because that child will indeed be brought up in a Godless environment that teaches that homosexuality is right. Marijuana distorts the mind and makes God's message and the Holy spirit harder to hear and as a result one is more likely to sin while under the influence of marijuana. How is it that the bible can condemn alchohol and drunkeness which has basically the same effects as marijuana and yet people still accept marijuana it's just insanity. Mastubation and pre-marital sex both distort the glory of God's plan for our love and sexuality. Masturbation ignors God's design that husbands were made for their wives and wives for their husbands. It takes love out of the quation and replaces it with sexual gratification that serves no purpse but to give pleasure to one's self without giving glory to God. Living with a boyfriend or girlfriend before marriage once again distorts God's plan for marriage by giving signals that its ok that couples who are unwed can live together and thus gives them the idea that their union of marriage is uneccesary or not as important as God had designed it to be. Ladies and gentlemen I just want to reinform you of how important the union of marriage actually is, there are few relationships out there more sacred to God than marriage is, it is the foundation of the family and shows God's glory by the union of one man and one woman living under God.

And finally the bible is the undisputed word of God, to think that it is flawed basically means that God is too enept to communicate his word properly or that God is a liar, their just isn't any other way to say that the bible is flawed. We as christians know that God can not lie and that God is all powerful and trhough people he has given us an absolute truth that is undisputable in all aspect and should be applied to each of our lives daily.

Peace and God be with you.

 

[thenewageriseth]

I am curious if anyone else has thought perhaps there are non-Christians pretending to be so in this forum to sow discord.

I read things here about Christians giving the greenlight to:

1) abortion
2) same sex marriages
3) same sex couples adopting children
4) marijuana
5) masturbation
6) pre-marital sex
7) living with girlfriend/boyfriend before marriage
8) the Bible being flawed

what else have I left out?

The deception I can see, but it concerns me about Christians supporting the above. Granted, I perhaps all have struggled with a few of those issues, but to willfully advocate the above and be a disciple of Jesus seems quite contradictory. Though there are differences, I still seek fellowship with those Christians...

Thoughts?

My thoughts:

1. Abortion is wrong in my eyes. I thank my mother for never aborting us (me and my sibs). Killing a fetus in its prime is awful.
2. same sex marriages...ehh not gonna go there lol-I wouldn't choose it that's for sure.
3. now even though I don't condone same sex marriage, I don't see anything wrong with adopting a child, unless the child grows up to odd learned behavior. The child had to choose on his or her own whether or not he/she wants to marry a person of the same sex or opposite sex. Otherwise, homeless kids need a chance.

4. I don't condone marijuana, unless it's for medicine, not getting high.
5. Masturbation is a struggle, i would say it's ONLY okay when you're not lusting after anyone, otherwise it's bad and can be as addictive as marijuana.
6. Pre-marital sex complicates things-ppl say it's sinful-I say it can complicate things-can turn into unwanted pregnanc(ies).

7. I don't think there's anything wrong with a bf and gf living together as long as there are boundaries and they don't get lustful which there is a 90% chance of that happening-unless they set boundaries (i.e sleep in different beds as one solution).

8. I think some parts of the Bible might be flawed only because the Bible was rewritten by man, I have heard before.