Deceived

[lostaquarium]

I've always thought I was logical... but looking back at some of the things I've done/said/thought... I'm recently coming to terms with the possibility that I'm actually a neurotic wreck.

But trying to grow out of it now.

In reply to your topic - yep, I like it that God tells us to submit to our husbands. Not because women are too illogical to cope on our own. But it makes the men feel good about themselves, and easier to deal with

 

[LJSGM]

I've always thought I was logical... but looking back at some of the things I've done/said/thought... I'm recently coming to terms with the possibility that I'm actually a neurotic wreck.

But trying to grow out of it now.

In reply to your topic - yep, I like it that God tells us to submit to our husbands. Not because women are too illogical to cope on our own. But it makes the men feel good about themselves, and easier to deal with

Gods also tells us to submit to one another... I guess that makes others feel good about themselves.

 

[Sketcher]

While ample women have demonstrated the "more easily deceived" aspect, the Bible doesn't give the reason for it. It could be emotions clouding their judgment, it could be other reasons.

 

[LJSGM]

While ample women have demonstrated the "more easily deceived" aspect, the Bible doesn't give the reason for it. It could be emotions clouding their judgment, it could be other reasons.

Men have demonstrated being more easily decieved as well, if not more, from my experience....

 

[LJSGM]

Some men are decieved by their own false sense of superiority... you the know scriptures... "pride comes before the fall."

 

[Blank123]

Your joking right? The man just gave me a car and a job, how many other people here can say that about their pastor?

I disagree that it isn't bibical.

Heb 13:17Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

they exist. My last job was because of my pastor and his wife. I'm just telling you to be careful. This is still the same man who has needlessly humiliated you in front of the rest of the congregation and grieved you so much that you've come here asking for prayer and have said has prompted you to seriously consider moving out. Don't let a few gifts sway you. I know you don't want to hear this, but that could be his way of buying you off if he's aware that you have been having negative thoughts about him.

as for the verse. the word used for rule over is "to lead". He may have authority inasmuch as you live under his roof, but you're still a grown woman with a mind and life of your own. You're not his daughter, and you're not his wife. The kind of authority a pastor actually has over his church is just that - leading. He leads his congregation spiritually, but Biblically speaking he isn't a governor and he has no say in how his congregation leads their day-to-day lives. He is a fallible man just as open to pride, sin, and deception as the rest of us. Which is why Scripture commands us all to be vigilant and warns us of men coming to us in sheeps clothing.

I'm not trying to argue, Laurie, or upset you. I am genuinely concerned for you. Appreciate him for what blessings he has given you, but promise me you'll be careful and watchful.

 

[Melethiel]

I'm in medical school. That kind of requires the ability to think logically. (But then, my dad always did say that I have the brain of a man... )

I'm far from being a radical feminist, but these statements are ridiculous. Women can be logical, and guys can be emotional.

 

[K9_Trainer]

Good post Little Tigress. I think those are some excellent polints.

Personally, I don't think being logical is a matter of man or woman. Its a matter of being an adult. Women now do NOT have to live under the authority of a man constantly as they did in the past, we are not property or pets or livestock. We are responsible for ourselves and I think its imperative that we not use "being emotional" as an excuse for being irresponsible or making bad decisions. We have a brain that is as fully developed as a man's, we have the same areas, parts, and functions, we are JUST as capable of making logical decisions if we learn to utilize that part of our brain.

Children are the ones that *need* to be under the authority or an adult. Their brains are not fully developed and they are not capable of making responsible decisions in the face of pain or hurt or when the right decision isn't what they want.

If you have a fully developed brain, then you are completely capable of knowing and deciding to do what is best or right, despite emotions.

 

[razeontherock]

My last job was because of my pastor and his wife. I'm just telling you to be careful.

as for the verse. the word used for rule over is "to lead". He may have authority inasmuch as you live under his roof, but you're still a grown woman with a mind and life of your own. You're not his daughter, and you're not his wife. The kind of authority a pastor actually has over his church is just that - leading.

I'm not trying to argue, Laurie, or upset you. I am genuinely concerned for you. Appreciate him for what blessings he has given you, but promise me you'll be careful and watchful.

Love is the right flavor, and let me add my perspective:

some people are more emotional than others, some people are more analytical and hard hearted than others. These distinctions do tend to follow the sexes, but each of us is a unique individual. We all can draw from both ends of that spectrum, and do!

Being single requires more "balance," and Proverbs repeats that there is safety in a multitude of counselors.

A BIG part of the issue raised by the OP is the CURSE, which we are redeemed from, and therefore not supposed to live under. I would like to think our OP is hearing this Good News in her heart?

As a man, a very normal flaw is to wish to please a woman rather than G-d. Not only is that much easier, but it's much more immediate! This is greatly compounded under the curse, whereby "your desire shall be to your husband." While I love the KJV, that phrase is a pretty horrible translation.

The OP expresses freedom from this aspect of the curse, understanding that you don't need to try to rule over a man just because he's a man. We are permitted to be right, occasionally.

My warning to any woman learning to be free of this aspect of the curse, is it's no excuse to check your brain at the door. Even a strong and logical man still benefits from your perspective. Even if he's not your husband or even S.O., but even just a friend or acquaintance.

Great thread, and our society has LOTS of room for improvement on this issue!

 

[LoveJC9]

I guess, my taste buds in humor have declined after the soup.

If you are not trying to run him down, then actually have a point to disagree with without nonsense.

Edit:

Oh, I LOVE proverbs
15:
4 The tongue that brings healing is a tree of life,
but a deceitful tongue crushes the spirit.

I have more if you like. I truly love it, but my heart is always with Ephesians.



To get back on topic, JC, I'm glad your pastor is helping you, but sadly I have to say, you have experienced way too much in your life for me to sit down and say what you are feeling is wrong. However, as a women, I experience logic in many ways, and emotions in many ways, and dear sister, I personally do not get decieved by people. And if I have in some way or another, it was because I am human, not just because I am woman.

God Bless.

It was actually a soup sandwich, which was a joke.

I just believe that we are more led by emotion that men are. I also believe that God made us to be submitted to a man. Our pastors should be an authority in our lives, so we should be submitted to them.

 

[LJSGM]

although many women do have a problem with manipulation and control just as a lot of men do, I do not think that verse "and her desire will be for her husband" means that she will try and rule over him, the word "desire" means the same desire that a man has for a woman and vise versa. I think perhaps it means that "he will want to rule over you and you will let him."

 

[LoveJC9]

We can't just overlook the parts of the bible that say we should be submitted to authority in our lives, if we do that we might as well throw out the whole bible.

Maybe I am the only woman in the world who has been completey thrown off by emotions or deception. So, I guess this thread is just about me.

 

[K9_Trainer]

Spiritually submitted to a pastor perhaps, yes. But not individually. Submitted in the same way another man would be submitted to his pastor. The only man we are called to be in submission to is our husband. If we are not married, then we are really not under the authority of anybody but God and the law of the land. Even married, we are not called to submit because we cannot look after ourselves. If that were the case, then it would be wrong or unwise for women to go to school or ever live singly.

Or at least thats my take on the matter. I'm not sure its worth much anymore lol

 

[Rhye]

We can't just overlook the parts of the bible that say we should be submitted to authority in our lives, if we do that we might as well throw out the whole bible.

Maybe I am the only woman in the world who has been completey thrown off by emotions or deception. So, I guess this thread is just about me.

If your pastor is your authority and you feel a sense of comfort and healing from him then so be it. We find comfort when there are people who help us through many difficult situations. My father does that with me all the time. Yesterday, I had a really bad panic attack for a few hours. My heart regulation was off and I could not breath for a while. Maybe my emotions lead that, maybe not. I don't know. It happened while I was driving, but I safely came home. He happened to be home at the time and helped me through it. He is someone in my life that I can lean on and he can help get me through things. If its a prayer, if its talking to me, if its helping me breath. It doesn't matter. So, in some ways because I love him, and because he is my father --spiritual I submit, just as my brother would, just as my mother would--Just as a man would spiritual submit to his pastor (Does that make any sense?)

As for overlooking parts: no one is over looking anything, and no one is asking anyone to throw the Bible away. But, you are definitely over looking peoples life experiences. We see yours. We understand it. We might not agree with it, but we understand it.

Then again, I really don't want to speak for everyone.

As for the soup comment, to clear it up. Its not very humorous (for me at least) to post something on a forum and already know people are going to disagree with you, and still sound offended. We have disagreed with a lot of your posts. But, that is your life. It is not in our position to change that. It is however, our right to post our thoughts, for the simple reason that you have aired your life on here.

I also dislike when people post verses when I can just as well use some on them, to point out how they are acting is just as wrong, if not worse.

Do what is right for you and the word you have given God. That's all that matters at this point.

 

[LoveJC9]

Spiritually submitted to a pastor perhaps, yes. But not individually. Submitted in the same way another man would be submitted to his pastor. The only man we are called to be in submission to is our husband. If we are not married, then we are really not under the authority of anybody but God and the law of the land. Even married, we are not called to submit because we cannot look after ourselves. If that were the case, then it would be wrong or unwise for women to go to school or ever live singly.

Or at least thats my take on the matter. I'm not sure its worth much anymore lol

No one ever said we are called to submit because we can't look after ourselves.

 

[K9_Trainer]

I'm sorry, I must have misinterpreted you then. It just seems that you are saying God intends women to be under the authority of a man because if we aren't, we will do things that are not wise or responsible due to our emotions.

 

[LoveJC9]

I'm sorry, I must have misinterpreted you then. It just seems that you are saying God intends women to be under the authority of a man because if we aren't, we will do things that are not wise or responsible due to our emotions.

God does intend for us to be under the authority of a man in my opinion, but I am not saying because we are irresponsible or unwise.

 

[Sunset2009]

Yeah, but K9, this is all true to an extent. Eve sinned in the Garden because Adam was not being a man for her and leading her. He was off playing with the lions or something. The serpent knew that if he could get Eve alone, he could easily deceive her, and he did just that with his words. Paul "reinforces" this later in 1 Timothy, when he says, "Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived," and that was the reason why, a couple verses before that he says he doesn't allow a woman to hold an authortative position over a man. Because women CAN be easily deceived, especially when they are not being "headed" by a man, whether that's a father, pastor, elder or husband.

It is universal truth that women think more emotionally and men think more logically. There are exceptions, but it's not the rule, and it IS a gender thing.

 

[BranwenUerchLlyr]

I understand why women need to be submitted to a man. Not saying I like it completely but I do understand. We are emotional creatures and we don't think logically. We are very easily deceived just like Eve was deceived in the garden.

Logical thinking, as I understand it, is not a sexually dimorphic trait. Logic is a learned skill. If you are prone to making illogical decisions, you don't get to blame that on being a silly, gullible female. Females that have bothered to learn the rules of logic may be annoyed by your assertion of generality.

 

[LoveJC9]

Yeah, but K9, this is all true to an extent. Eve sinned in the Garden because Adam was not being a man for her and leading her. He was off playing with the lions or something. The serpent knew that if he could get Eve alone, he could easily deceive her, and he did just that with his words. Paul "reinforces" this later in 1 Timothy, when he says, "Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived," and that was the reason why, a couple verses before that he says he doesn't allow a woman to hold an authortative position over a man. Because women CAN be easily deceived, especially when they are not being "headed" by a man, whether that's a father, pastor, elder or husband.

It is universal truth that women think more emotionally and men think more logically. There are exceptions, but it's not the rule, and it IS a gender thing.

very well worded sister.