Debunking Calvinism with Scripture

[JacktheCatholic]

I find it amusing catholics can't and won't accept much of the bible but cling to later developing traditions. And things written by uninspired early writers.

I have found that when Calvin teaches he explains everything in accord with what he is teaching.

I have found that when Luther teaches he explains everything in accord with what he is teaching.

I have found that when Anglicans teach they explain everything in accord with what they are teaching.

I have found that when Muslims teach they explain everything in accord with what they are teaching.

I have found that when Jews teach they explain everything in accord with what they are teaching.

I have found that when Mormons teach they explain everything in accord with what they are teaching.



BUT what did the Apsotles teach?

I have found that when the Catholic Church teaches it not only explains everything in accord with what they are teaching but it is also backed by 2000 years of tradition and other teachings.

See the difference?

 

[TraderJack]

BUT what did the Apsotles teach?

I have found that when the Catholic Church teaches it not only explains everything in accord with what they are teaching but it is also backed by 2000 years of tradition and other teachings.

So goes the theory, but is not supported by the facts.

See the difference?

Rome teaches in accordance with Rome.

 

[Rick Otto]

"Debunking Calvinism with Scripture "
(subtitle)-How to do The Twist like a Roman Rock Star

 

[TraderJack]

Debunking Calvinism With Scripture

As soon as

 

[JacktheCatholic]

So goes the theory, but is not supported by the facts.

We have shown facts here in the past.

What we have never seen is someone showing facts for their Protestant church going back more than 500 years.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We have shown facts here in the past.

What we have never seen is someone showing facts for their Protestant church going back more than 500 years.

Hey Jack. This thread is concerning Calvinism, and is a doctrine within Christianianity, much like the doctrine of Roman Catholicism in Christianity. Let it rest chum!!!

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Hey Jack. This thread is concerning Calvinism, and is a doctrine within Christianianity, much like the doctrine of Roman Catholicism in Christianity. Let it rest chum!!!

I find the fact that Calvinism started with Calvin to debunk it more than enough. It is obviously a man made religion and only borrows truths from the religion given us by Jesus and his shephards. If it were anything but man made it would be traced to Christ himself.

But we all know that it never existed until Calvin disagreed with Luther and started Calvin's religion.

 

[Rick Otto]

The Reformation did not cure all the original, true church's problems (the one that existed before Rome'slegalization), but it did correct the soteriological problems that the Romanization resulting from legalization caused.
Antiquity is not as impressive as eternality anyway, when it comes to testing the quality of truth.
The truths you need to subject yourself to for salvation are timeless.

Jack, you've said that infallability was defined to mean what the pope says ex-cathedra, and has only spoken ex-cathedra on a couple of things.
So how did the Magesterium get mixed in with that definition?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jack, you've said that infallability was defined to mean what the pope says ex-cathedra, and has only spoken ex-cathedra on a couple of things.
So how did the Magesterium get mixed in with that definition?

Not sure what is meant by the magesterium getting mixed in?

 

[Rick Otto]

The Magesterium is described as error-free.
Isn't that what infallability means?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

The Magesterium is described as error-free.
Isn't that what infallability means?

Not really Rick.

To keep it basic...

Infallibility means no errors.

Magesterium is what represents the people like congress.

The Pope is like the President.

Jesus gave them the Constitution.

Everything must conform to Jesus constitution. The Pope and Magesterium work together to ensure the Constitution is upheld through the ages.


This is a very cheap analogy but the fundamentals seem to work for a make shift analogy.

 

[Rick Otto]

So then the Magesterium can be wrong about something?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

So then the Magesterium can be wrong about something?

If you mean when theorizing and learning and just doing what men do then yes it is fallible because it is made of men.

The Pope is the same way.

When Infallible comes into the picture is when the Magesterium or Pope state a teaching to the whole Church as doctrine or dogma.


The reason this can be infallible is because God will not allow error to enter His church.

Now I know you immediately dismiss this notion of the "Catholic Church" as being this Church. But ask yourself if the Church Jesus made could be protected like this? If you agree that God could and would protect his Church from error then all you need to know is what Church that is.

 

[Rick Otto]

Ok.
Then when men wrote the catechism, as men do, they occaisionaly got it wrong?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Ok.
Then when men wrote the catechism, as men do, they occaisionaly got it wrong?

The Catechism is not declared infallible if that is what you mean.

The Pope called it an assured teaching norm for our age.

Keep in mind that men with doctorites in this stuff reviewed it extensively and went through 8 or 9 revisions before getting it right. Also it was reviewed by hundreds and hundreds of highly educated people in this time for errors.

The chance of it having an error is very very small. But because it is not declared as infallible then the possibility exists. So yes.

 

[Rick Otto]

Thank you.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Thank you.

ReallY?

Or am I being patronized.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Well peoples... I am going to bed.

If I offended anyone it was not intentional.

I pray we all have a blessed night and I will be back.

 

[chestertonrules]

Is this biblical?

John Calvin:

"Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children." Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 1
"...it is utterly inconsistent to transfer the preparation for destruction to anything but God's secret plan." "..God's secret plan is the cause of hardening." B 2, Ch 23, s. 1

"...salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it.." Bk 3, Ch 21, s. 5
"We call predestination God's eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, eternal life is fore-ordained for some, eternal damnation for others." Bk 3, ch 21, s. 5
"The very inequality of his grace proves that it is free." Bk 3, ch 21, s 6
"..we say that God once established by his eternal and unchangeable plan those whom he long before determined once for all to receive into salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, he would devote to destruction. ...he has barred the door of life to those whom he has given over to damnation." Bk 3, Ch 21, s. 7
"...God could foresee nothing good in man except what he had already determined to bestow by the benefit of his election,.." Bk 3, Ch 22, s.5
"God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful." Bk 3, Ch 22, s. 8
"... predestination to glory is the cause of predestination to grace, rather than the converse." Bk 3, ch 22, s. 9
"...although the voice of the gospel addresses all in general, yet the gift of faith is rare." Bk 3, ch 22, s. 9

 

[sunlover1]

The reason this can be infallible is because God will not allow error to enter His church.

But doesnt it say that error would enter the church?

Acts 20:27
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock,
over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,
to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves
enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things,
to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years
I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

1 Timothy
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly,
that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,
giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats,
which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving
of them which believe and know the truth.

Now I know you immediately dismiss this notion of the "Catholic Church" as being this Church. But ask yourself if the Church Jesus made could be protected like this? If you agree that God could and would protect his Church from error then all you need to know is what Church that is.

But of course He CAN, but is that what He chose to do?