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Jimlarmore

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In an attempt to discuss some of the things EGW wrote, I will make this statement, and analogy. In forensics, it is the responsibility of the affirmative side, the side making the proposition that this is that to supply proof, or else the proposition fails FOR LACK OF EVIDENCE.

Now the statement: EGW wrote 'The eating of pork has produced scrofula, leprosy, and cancerous humors" {RH, June 20, 1899 par. 3}

Is it against the rules of the blog to request proof of that statement, (and any that may be similar) since it is EGW who makes the proposition?

Usually, SDAs ask nons to supply proof of the negative, but that is faulty argumentation, and since this site has more SDAs on it than CARM, I am merely asking for proof of a position she posits, and NOT mocking or making fun of her.

I'm not sure about the others but meat eating has been scientifically connected to cancer for some time. Just do a google on "meat eating and cancer" and see what pops up.

Here is just one site: http://www.houseofsteed.com/sons/meat.htm

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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freeindeed2

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You're so subtle. It's hard to know what you are really saying. How about some assertiveness training so you can speak your mind?
Hey, welcome! How did you hear about us here? Glad to have you posting with us!

How long have you been an SDA?
 
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RND

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No one is disputing anywhere that eating pork is unhealthy, so I don't know what the purpose is for all for this.

The specific item under question is leprosy, which has not been proven to be true by any modern, updated medical evidence yet.

Does it have to be proven that pork specifically causes leprosy for pork to be considered unhealthful and not something that should be eaten?

When God the Father said, "Don't eat pork" could that be considered reason enough not to eat swine because God, in His infinite knowledge and wisdom knew that eating swine was dangerous?

Do we throw out all of Mrs. White's writings and advice simply because she may have missed one?

Should we similarly ignore others, such as Luther, because (in Luther's case) he drank sometimes to excess?
 
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NightEternal

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Does it have to be proven that pork specifically causes leprosy for pork to be considered unhealthful and not something that should be eaten?

When God the Father said, "Don't eat pork" could that be considered reason enough not to eat swine because God, in His infinite knowledge and wisdom knew that eating swine was dangerous?

Do we throw out all of Mrs. White's writings and advice simply because she may have missed one?

Should we similarly ignore others, such as Luther, because (in Luther's case) he drank sometimes to excess?

I am not trying to throw out anything, so I don't know why you make that presumptious jump in logic.
 
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RND

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No one is disputing anywhere that eating pork is unhealthy, so I don't know what the purpose is for all for this.

The specific item under question is leprosy, which has not been proven to be true by any modern, updated medical evidence yet.

That is what I am claiming is an absurd, wrong assertion that she made. I never mentioned cancer anywhere.

I am not trying to throw out anything, so I don't know why you make that presumptious jump in logic.

Never said you were. Just asking a question. Your failure to answer the question was answer enough. Thanks!
 
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Jimlarmore

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I heard something in a sermon the other day that really makes sense to me. In the Bible where it says that "what ever we drink or eat we should do all to the glory of God". If you think about this in a deep way it becomes obvious that if we can drink or eat to the glory of God we can drink and eat in a way that is NOT to the glory of God How can we know one way or the other? To me the foods that God gave man in the beginning are ideal for health and have been shown by thousands of anecdotal cases to cure cancer is the best. However, if you are going to eat meat then it should at least be meat that God says is "clean" meat and not meat that would be an abomination to our Creator to eat.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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NightEternal

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Trust me, If I had wanted to 'throw her out' I would have done it years ago.

Of course, I am used to false charges and deliberate misrepresentation of my position in regards to EGW being implied on this forum, so carry on.
 
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RND

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Trust me, If I had wanted to 'throw her out' I would have done it years ago. Of course, I am used to false charges and deliberate misrepresentation of my position in regards to EGW being implied on this forum, so carry on.
Have I done this to you my brother? Have I leveled any false charces against you or made a deliberate "misrepresentation of your (my) position" by simply asking a question? I think we sometimes make ourselves culpable to what others believe by the stance we take regarding certain issues.
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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I came across this quote from EGW not long ago. As anecdotal stories seem to have so much weight among some people this is a good example of how this type of logical fallacy can be used.

But the daughters are not the ones to be blamed wholly in this matter. The mother is at fault. She has not patiently taught her daughters how to cook. She knows that they lack knowledge in the cooking department, and therefore feels no release from the labor. She must attend to everything that requires care, thought, and attention. Young ladies should be thoroughly instructed in cooking. Whatever be their circumstances in life, here is knowledge which may be put to a practical use. It is a branch of education which has the most direct influence upon human life, especially the lives of those held most dear. Many a wife and mother who has not had the right education and lacks skill in the cooking department is daily presenting her family with ill-prepared food which is steadily and surely destroying the digestive organs, making a poor quality of blood, and frequently bringing on acute attacks of inflammatory disease and causing premature death. Many have been brought to their death by eating heavy, sour bread. An instance was related to me of a hired girl who made a batch of sour, heavy bread. In order to get rid of it and conceal the matter, she threw it to a couple of very large hogs. Next morning the man of the house found his swine dead, and, upon examining the trough, found pieces of this heavy bread. He made inquiries, and the girl acknowledged what she had done. She had not a thought of the effect of such bread upon the swine. If heavy, sour bread will kill swine, which can devour rattlesnakes and almost every detestable thing, what effect will it have upon that tender organ, the human stomach?
Testimonies for the Church, Volume 1, 1855-1868 Healthful Cookery page 683.002
Also in Christian Temperance and Bible Hygiene, 1890 page 156.001
 
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RND

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I came across this quote from EGW not long ago. As anecdotal stories seem to have so much weight among some people this is a good example of how this type of logical fallacy can be used.

For what it's worth the actual quote is on page 684, paragraph 2.

Also, we should take EGW's comments in this passage as a whole, not intending them to be split as individual comments. The gist of what Mrs. White seems to be saying is summed up in this:

"It is a religious duty for every Christian girl and woman to learn at once to make good, sweet, light bread from unbolted wheat flour. Mothers should take their daughters into the kitchen with them when very young and teach them the art of cooking. The mother cannot expect her daughters to understand the mysteries of housekeeping without education. She should instruct them patiently, lovingly, and make the work as agreeable as she can by her cheerful countenance and encouraging words of approval. If they fail once, twice, or thrice, censure not. Already discouragement is doing its work and tempting them to say: "It is of no use; I can't do it." This is not the time for censure. The will is becoming weakened. It needs the spur of encouraging, cheerful, hopeful words, as:"

685

"Never mind the mistakes you have made. You are but a learner and must expect to make blunders. Try again. Put your mind on what you are doing. Be very careful, and you will certainly succeed."

Many mothers do not realise the importance of this branch of knowledge, and rather than have the trouble and care of instructing their children and bearing with their failings and errors while learning, they prefer to do all themselves. And when their daughters make a failure in their efforts, they send them away with: "It is no use; you can't do this or that. You perplex and trouble me more than you help me."

Thus the first efforts of the learners are repulsed, and the first failure so cools their interest and ardour to learn that they dread another trial, and will propose to sew, knit, clean house--anything but cook. Here the mother was greatly at fault. She should have patiently instructed them that they might by practice obtain an experience which would remove the awkwardness and remedy the unskilful movements of the inexperienced worker. Here I will add extracts from Testimony No. 10, published in 1864:

"Children who have been petted and waited upon, always expect it; and if their expectations are not met, they are disappointed and discouraged. This same disposition will be seen through their whole lives; they will be helpless, leaning upon others for aid, expecting others to favour them and yield to them. And if they are opposed, even after they have grown to manhood and womanhood, they think themselves abused; and thus they worry their way through the world, hardly able to bear their own weight, often murmuring and fretting because everything does not suit them.

"Mistaken parents are teaching their children lessons which will prove ruinous to them, and are also planting thorns for their own feet. They think that by gratifying the wishes of their children, and letting them follow their own inclinations,"

686

they can gain their love. What an error! Children thus indulged grow up unrestrained in their desires, unyielding in their dispositions, selfish, exacting, and overbearing, a curse to themselves and to all around them. To a great extent, parents hold in their own hands the future happiness of their children. Upon them rests the important work of forming the character of these children. The instructions given in childhood will follow them all through life. Parents sow the seed which will spring up and bear fruit either for good or evil. They can fit their sons and daughters for happiness or for misery."
 
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Jimlarmore

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Any mention of it coming from pork, as EGW asserts? I didnt' see any.

I've never found any scientific evidence in any of the literature that says that eating pork is directly related to the disease of leprosy. So as a scientist you would have to say that to do so would be making assertions or speculations that were not based on the available evidence. However, it's been my experience that the evaluation of the available evidence does not always tell us the whole story. New discoveries regarding diseases and man's physiology are found every year in research.

If this disease is indeed caused by a mycobacterium infection then it's very possible that eating poorly cooked pork could contribute or even cause the onset of this disease. Most adventists are already aware of the famous trichina problem with pork but it would not surprize me at all to find substantial quatitites of mycobacterium Leprae or salmonella
typhamurium present in rare or poorly cooked pork either. A complete study would need to be done to scientifically determine this but it does make sense based on what I know about microbiology.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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DarylFawcett

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Just because medical science hasn't yet verified this, as was once the case in other things she wrote before their time, doesn't mean what EGW said about pork and leprosy is wrong.
 
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freeindeed2

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I've never found any scientific evidence in any of the literature that says that eating pork is directly related to the disease of leprosy. So as a scientist you would have to say that to do so would be making assertions or speculations that were not based on the available evidence. However, it's been my experience that the evaluation of the available evidence does not always tell us the whole story. New discoveries regarding diseases and man's physiology are found every year in research.

If this disease is indeed caused by a mycobacterium infection then it's very possible that eating poorly cooked pork could contribute or even cause the onset of this disease. Most adventists are already aware of the famous trichina problem with pork but it would not surprize me at all to find substantial quatitites of mycobacterium Leprae or salmonella
typhamurium present in rare or poorly cooked pork either. A complete study would need to be done to scientifically determine this but it does make sense based on what I know about microbiology.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
What year did she make the statement? And, based on what information did she make it? (Or did God tell it to her?)
 
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O

OntheDL

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I'm not an medical expert. However it does not seem to be a certainty in medical world today on how humans contract the virus m leprae.

Doctors as late as 1960s were recommending tobacco's to treat asthma.

So the questions on EGW's inspiration does not answer to scientific support as much as the bible does not need to answer to science about creation, flood...
 
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