Debate....

[Jon]

We are going to have a debate (hopefully).

Why?

Because I want to see one in action

 

The debate is:

Evoultion vs. Creationism

 

BEFORE YOU POST tell everyone what you belive (eg. I belive that God Created the earth in 6 24h days and that the earth is 6000 years old.)

 

[Tau]

Something like half of this forum is devoted to just that debate. I'd recommend browsing through some of the older threads to get an idea of what each side is claiming, what their arguments are, etc.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Generic creation/evolution debates rarely go anywhere, as the general topic is quite broad. Best bet is to start debates around specific claims either relating to creation or evolution.

 

[Jon]

Something like half of this forum is devoted to just that debate. I'd recommend browsing through some of the older threads to get an idea of what each side is claiming, what their arguments are, etc

that's what I have been doing for the last few weeks, and now I just wanted to see a debate in action(a more general creationism vs evoultion dabate)

 

[Arikay]

Actually, a debate might be interesting, as since generally you must be prepared to back up any claim you make. This unfortunatly would hurt many of the creationist arguments as I have heard quite a few that lack any evidence and some creationists here choose to make claims and then dont back them up.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Another thing is prior to any worthwhile debate, the topic of debate should be rigidly defined. For example, if people wanted to debate the Theory of Evolution, then they should stick to discussing elements of that theory, and avoid bringing up topics like geological formations, planetary orbits, and the origin of the universe.

Because once this starts happening, things spiral off in all directions and it becomes confusing as to what is actually being debated.

 

[Jon]

Definition of evoultion (by Pete Harcoff)
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/39886.html


The Theory of Evolution...

... is NOT:

- a religion
- an attempt to deny God
- atheism
- an explanation for the origin of life from non-life
- an explanation for the formation of the planets and solar system
- an explanation for the origin of the universe
- responsible for the current Middle East conflict
- responsible for the events of September 11th
- responsible for your child's bad behavior and/or poor grades in school
- geology
- astronomy
- cosmology


... IS:

- a scientific theory
- biology
- an explanation for the diversity of biological life on the planet

 

[Taffsadar]

Now can anyone disagree about that?

 

[Follower of Christ]

I believe in a 6-24 hour day creation.

I would like to be shown how evolution is not considered a religion as it requires ''faith'' in unproveable speculations (one being unrepeatable macro-evoution)

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Today at 11:54 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #9

I would like to be shown how evolution is not considered a religion as it requires ''faith'' in unproveable speculations (one being unrepeatable macro-evoution)

Macroevolution (or rather, the formation of new species) has been observed and documented.

 

[Follower of Christ]

"Macroevolution (or rather, the formation of new species) has been observed and documented."



FOC:
This is the same old dribble.
Lack of interbreeding in offspring DOES NOT infer a new species.

Loss of information could easily do the same thing.


NEXT........

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Today at 12:05 AM Follower of Christ said this in Post #11

This is the same old dribble.
Lack of interbreeding in offspring DOES NOT infer a new species.

Do you know how species are classified?

 

[SBfaithful]

Macroevolution (or rather, the formation of new species) has been observed and documented. [/B]

[/QUOTE]
are you talking about mutations?
Please explain the observation of one family type changing to another.
i.e. lizard to a bird

 

[SBfaithful]

Can anyone bring up one case where evolution has caused a gain in genetic material?

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Today at 12:08 AM SBfaithful said this in Post #13

are you talking about mutations?
Please explain the observation of one family type changing to another.
i.e. lizard to a bird

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional/part1b.html#bird

That whole FAQ deals with evolution of different "types" of organisms to others. Well worth a read.

 

[Tenek]

Something tells me that this debate is about as useful as trying to convert the Pope to Satanism. It's very hard to "win" debates that involve personal religious beliefs. There's something about believing that God has given you Absolute Truth (tm) that makes minds like steel traps - closed and rusted.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Today at 12:10 AM SBfaithful said this in Post #14

Can anyone bring up one case where evolution has caused a gain in genetic material?

Sure, via gene duplication: http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/M/Mutations.html#duplications

If you want examples, I'm sure PubMed would oblige.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Today at 12:24 AM Tenek said this in Post #16

Something tells me that this debate is about as useful as trying to convert the Pope to Satanism. It's very hard to "win" debates that involve personal religious beliefs. There's something about believing that God has given you Absolute Truth (tm) that makes minds like steel traps - closed and rusted.

Personally, I find these debates useful simply because it increases my own learning. I've learned more about evolution in the last eight months debating it online than anything previously.

And there are also usually observers to such debates which also stand to benefit.

But you're right. People that have made up their mind about evolution for theological reasons probably won't change their views (although, it has happened). But really, if that's the case, then they're debating evolution for all the wrong reasons, anyway. After all, evolution is science, not theology.

 

[Arikay]

I agree with Tenek.

The big thing with a debate is that if you have a debate about creationism. Creationists need to actually back up claims and have evidence. The only evidence I have seen for creationism, is the bible (not real evidence) pretty much all the rest doesnt stand up to scrutiny. Its all speculation. so creationism would take a very large hit in an actual organized debate.

 

[Arikay]

Ok. I agree with Pete too.

I have learned all sorts of things that I didnt know, about evolution, the bible, creationism, and about other things that I researched because of these discussions.