Debate-Was C.S Lewis a Christian?

[Sammy-San]

I have done some research about CS Lewis and his beliefs about God, and I have found some quotes from him, which I feel, implies that he was not a Christian. He did believe in God, but it's possible that he wasn't born again and saved. For example, he called himself a "reluctant convert", and in some of his quotes, he even compares Christ to pagan gods.

"You may picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted for even a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In...1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England."

“as I believe, Christ, fulfills both Paganism and Judaism.”

Source=C.S. Lewis, Reflections On The Psalms.

C.S Lewis even claimed that pagan gods were subspecies of Christ.

“I had some ado to prevent Joy and myself from relapsing into Paganism in Attica! At Daphni it was hard not to pray to Apollo the Healer. But somehow one didn't feel it would have been very wrong - would have only been addressing Christ sub specie
Apollinis." (C.S. Lewis: A Biography, Roger Lancelyn Green, p.276, emphasis added)

Those quotes from him above were very blasphemous. Why would any born again person say things like that? And most importantly, what true Christian would call themselves a "reluctant" convert?

 

[keith99]

How sad that you fear culture and learning so much.

If you check you can find similar echos and thoughts in the writings of Paul.

 

[essentialsaltes]

'But somehow one didn't feel it would have been very wrong - would have only been addressing Christ sub specie
Apollinis.'

Lewis also uses this idea in the Narnia books. One of the Tash-worshippers is comforted by Aslan:

"I take to me the services which thou hast done to Tash... if any man swear by him and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him."

The other Lewis quote on the wiki-page is also relevant: "I think that every prayer which is sincerely made even to a false god, or to a very imperfectly conceived true God, is accepted by the true God and that Christ saves many who do not think they know him. For He is (dimly) present in the good side of the inferior teachers they follow. In the parable of the Sheep and Goats those who are saved do not seem to know that they have served Christ."

 

[PersephonesTear]

It's not for us to judge whether or not C.S. Lewis was a true Christian. He is dead and gone, and he is either with Jesus or not now.

Whether or not his writings are correct and edifying for Christians, on the other hand, is an appropriate thing to judge. I personally am highly impressed with some of his views and not so impressed by others. I was raised with Narnia, and my life as a child would have been considerably more difficult without it - and without the assurance it gave me that it is OK for Christians to indulge in fantasy.

It is possible that some of his stuff can be highly misconstrued by some people, for a couple of reasons. One is that he didn't dumb down much of what he wrote, and most modern Americans simply are not as educated as he was. So the points he tries to make go over their heads, and they get caught up in smaller "details" that do not accurately depict what he was saying. Another issue is that he was from a different era, and it shows. Some of his stuff really shows the generation gap more than others, and it can sometimes seem like he is writing in an archaic form of English. He also often comes off as unkind toward women, which I think is another mark of the generation gap.

He also did have some legitimate weaknesses, and he may have been too forthright about his own failings in some of his writings. I'm not saying that one should be dishonest or try to hide one's failings. I'm just saying, if you put into writing that you struggle with a certain issue, it's there for people to judge you over centuries later - even if you overcame that weakness years before you passed away.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

One of my favorite authors. Yes, he certainly was a Christian.

He belonged to the Church of England as I understand. So some of the details about his beliefs may be a little odd to people like me (Southern Baptist). However, the 'odd bits' are the bits which are not essential to salvation as I understand it.

The issue mentioned by EssentialSaltes is one such. However, I haven't yet found anything more to explain the whole concept or to defend it, so I simply don't really understand how that works - or purports to work. So I'll let it sit.

Lewis does some of the best at explaining the essence of Christianity in his book Mere Christianity. I find it difficult to read that book and not be sure he was a Christian.

 

[apache1]

Lewis also uses this idea in the Narnia books. One of the Tash-worshippers is comforted by Aslan:

"I take to me the services which thou hast done to Tash... if any man swear by him and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him."

The other Lewis quote on the wiki-page is also relevant: "I think that every prayer which is sincerely made even to a false god, or to a very imperfectly conceived true God, is accepted by the true God and that Christ saves many who do not think they know him. For He is (dimly) present in the good side of the inferior teachers they follow. In the parable of the Sheep and Goats those who are saved do not seem to know that they have served Christ."

Is the name "Aslan" in any way derived from "Aztlan", the supposed land of origin of the Aztecs and other Nahuatl Native American Indian peoples?

 

[JacobLaw]

One of my favorite authors. Yes, he certainly was a Christian.

He belonged to the Church of England as I understand. So some of the details about his beliefs may be a little odd to people like me (Southern Baptist). However, the 'odd bits' are the bits which are not essential to salvation as I understand it.

The issue mentioned by EssentialSaltes is one such. However, I haven't yet found anything more to explain the whole concept or to defend it, so I simply don't really understand how that works - or purports to work. So I'll let it sit.

Lewis does some of the best at explaining the essence of Christianity in his book Mere Christianity. I find it difficult to read that book and not be sure he was a Christian.

I think I agree with you; I have heard some accusation that I would not repeat; He being a King James Bible Christian and not Catholic does give reason to believe he was a true believer.

 

[Rajni]

Lewis also uses this idea in the Narnia books. One of the Tash-worshippers is comforted by Aslan:

"I take to me the services which thou hast done to Tash... if any man swear by him and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him."

The other Lewis quote on the wiki-page is also relevant: "I think that every prayer which is sincerely made even to a false god, or to a very imperfectly conceived true God, is accepted by the true God and that Christ saves many who do not think they know him. For He is (dimly) present in the good side of the inferior teachers they follow. In the parable of the Sheep and Goats those who are saved do not seem to know that they have served Christ."

Okay, that right there is pretty cool, as it's reminiscent of something
from the Bhagavad Gita, where God (therein referred to as Krishna)
states:

“Whosoever desires to worship whatever deity [FONT=verdana,sans-serif]—[/FONT] using
whatever name, form, and method [FONT=verdana,sans-serif]—[/FONT] with faith, I make
their faith steady in that deity. Endowed with steady faith
they worship that deity, and obtain their wishes through
that deity. Those wishes are granted by Me.” (BG 7.22)
​

Indeed, if God permeates all, He would be inside or behind every
concept of deity, so this makes sense.

I think C.S. Lewis was definitely on to something, there.


-

 

[essentialsaltes]

Is the name "Aslan" in any way derived from "Aztlan", the supposed land of origin of the Aztecs and other Nahuatl Native American Indian peoples?

As much as I love Precolumbian archeology, Aslan has no connection to that.

Aslan and similar words is a name that means "lion" in various languages.

"Arsalan, Aslan and Arslan are male first names in Afghanistan, Albania, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Iran, Pakistan, Turkey, various North Caucasian ethnic regions, and, rarely, Arab Middle Eastern countries of the Levant (Lebanon, Syria, Palestine). The word "Aslan" means "lion" in Turkic and Mongolian languages."

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

And most importantly, what true Christian would call themselves a "reluctant" convert?

Paul. A reluctant convert if there ever was one.

 

[Gadarene]

Probably was a Christian - just he had some grasp of nuance, or at least moreso than a lot of Christians.

Not a huge grasp of it either, mind, if the Lewisian (False) Trilemma is anything to go by.

 

[keith99]

It's not for us to judge whether or not C.S. Lewis was a true Christian. He is dead and gone, and he is either with Jesus or not now.

Whether or not his writings are correct and edifying for Christians, on the other hand, is an appropriate thing to judge. I personally am highly impressed with some of his views and not so impressed by others. I was raised with Narnia, and my life as a child would have been considerably more difficult without it - and without the assurance it gave me that it is OK for Christians to indulge in fantasy.

It is possible that some of his stuff can be highly misconstrued by some people, for a couple of reasons. One is that he didn't dumb down much of what he wrote, and most modern Americans simply are not as educated as he was. So the points he tries to make go over their heads, and they get caught up in smaller "details" that do not accurately depict what he was saying. Another issue is that he was from a different era, and it shows. Some of his stuff really shows the generation gap more than others, and it can sometimes seem like he is writing in an archaic form of English. He also often comes off as unkind toward women, which I think is another mark of the generation gap.

He also did have some legitimate weaknesses, and he may have been too forthright about his own failings in some of his writings. I'm not saying that one should be dishonest or try to hide one's failings. I'm just saying, if you put into writing that you struggle with a certain issue, it's there for people to judge you over centuries later - even if you overcame that weakness years before you passed away.

Excellent points.

Your post, specifically separating Judging C.C. Lewis vrs Judging the value of his writings. His and the writings of any other man should not be blindly accepted. He was quite capable of error. But he was even more capable of bringing things into focus and much of his writings serve Christian, Pagan and post Christian quite well. And serve all of there best when we learn from him as he would have desired, which would be with a critical mind rather than blind acceptance.

EDIT: Much of his writings address specific issues of his specific time and place, not unlike much of Scripture. An wise reader will realize this.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Those quotes from him above were very blasphemous. Why would any born again person say things like that?

"Christ fulfills both Paganism and Judaism".

How is this blasphemy? Christ died for the whole world, did he not? Including Jew and Gentile. He is the fulfillment of all.

With regards to gods being a subspecies of Christ. Christ is in all. I find Christ-centered ideas in almost all religions. Many Indian philosophers focus on Christ, despite not being "mainstream Christian". I don't think it is blasphemy to say Christ is in all and above all. It would, however, be blasphemy to say that something is above Christ. Lewis does not say anything is above Christ, but rather the opposite: Christ is above all.

And most importantly, what true Christian would call themselves a "reluctant" convert?

I am a reluctant convert.

 

[Sammy-San]

Paul. A reluctant convert if there ever was one.

Why did Paul refer to himself as a reluctant convert?

 

[Sammy-San]

"Christ fulfills both Paganism and Judaism".

How is this blasphemy? Christ died for the whole world, did he not? Including Jew and Gentile. He is the fulfillment of all.

With regards to gods being a subspecies of Christ. Christ is in all. I find Christ-centered ideas in almost all religions. Many Indian philosophers focus on Christ, despite not being "mainstream Christian". I don't think it is blasphemy to say Christ is in all and above all. It would, however, be blasphemy to say that something is above Christ. Lewis does not say anything is above Christ, but rather the opposite: Christ is above all.



I am a reluctant convert.

I think the facts from these two articles prove that CS Lewis wasn't truly saved.

1-http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/narnia_chronicles.html

Was Clive Staples Lewis a Christian or a blasphemer? In his book The World’s Last Night and Other Essays on pages 98-99, Lewis said, “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place… certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.The one exhibition of error and the one confession of ignorance grow side by side. That they stood thus in the mouth of Jesus himself and were not merely placed thus by the reporter, we surely need not doubt… The facts, then, are these: that Jesus professed himself (in some sense) ignorant, and within a moment showed that he really was so.”

That quote was definitley very blasphemous. He referred to Jesus as "ignorant".

But the most shocking piece of evidence is the fact that cs lewis's friend, Charles Williams, was into the occult.

2-http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/fantasy.php

Lewis's friend, Charles Williams, was a member of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which is a witchcraft cult that dabbles in all sorts of demonic activity, and even the infamous Satanist Aleister Crowley was a member of it.
"Charles Williams... developed a keen interest in mystical form of occultism which led to his being initiated into an offshoot of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, at the invitation of A.E. Waite."
-Gareth Knight, The Magical World of the Inklings, Skylight Press, 2010, p. 24, ISBN: 9781908011015

Charles Williams is on the list of Inklings shown earlier, and it is well known that Williams was very close friends with C.S. Lewis.
"The connections between the ideas of that group of friends and scholars known as the 'Inklings' is the subject of Richard Sturch's essay; and George Sayer, more specifically, compares the literally criticism of Williams with that of his close friend C. S. Lewis."
-Brian Home, Charles Williams: A Celebration, Gracewing Publishing, 1995, p. x, ISBN: 9780852443316

If CS Lewis was truly a Christian, why would he even be friends with somebody like Charles Williams? There's a saying that says, "tell me who your friends are, and I'll tell you who you are". Another quote from the second article.

If C.S. Lewis was a Christian, why was he going to bars, drinking and smoking with occultic men like this in a private writers club? These wicked, occultic men were his closest friends! If Lewis were ever a Christian, he should have rebuked these men, revealed the truth of God's Word about their evil practices, and separated himself from that group, but he didn't because Lewis was never born-again.

 

[keith99]

If CS Lewis was truly a Christian, why would he even be friends with somebody like Charles Williams? There's a saying that says, "tell me who your friends are, and I'll tell you who you are". Another quote from the second article.

Yes all who associate with harlots and tax collectors are not "Real Christians".

Oh wait!

Sounds to me that you are one of those who Martin Luther described as a blasphemer and reviler of Christ, one who wants to lie among Roses and Lilies rather than one who wants to behave as Christ did and would have others do.

 

[Sammy-San]

Yes all who associate with harlots and tax collectors are not "Real Christians".

Oh wait!

Sounds to me that you are one of those who Martin Luther described as a blasphemer and reviler of Christ, one who wants to lie among Roses and Lilies rather than one who wants to behave as Christ did and would have others do.

Associating with sinful people is not-un Christianlike. Even Jesus did it.

However, the Bible says to not be unequally yoked. Being friends with somebody who is living a very sinful lifestyle (Charles Williams was a member of the golden dawn-a witchcraft group) is not something that's honoring to God. CS Lewis referred to Charles Williams as his "dearest friend".

Inklings -- Charles Williams

"Williams would remain in Oxford, continuing to work for the press but also giving occasional lecture series for the university, and of course meeting with the Inklings, until his sudden and unexpected death in May 1945.... Lewis was devastated by the loss, more than any of the other Inklings. Williams had... effectively displaced Tolkien from his place in Lewis’s life—indeed, he called Williams, in a letter written soon after the man’s death, 'my dearest friend.'"

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

If CS Lewis was truly a Christian, why would he even be friends with somebody like Charles Williams? There's a saying that says, "tell me who your friends are, and I'll tell you who you are". Another quote from the second article.

Poe's Law?


You can't be serious...are you telling me that you do not have a single non-Christian friend?

 

[Sammy-San]

Poe's Law?


You can't be serious...are you telling me that you do not have a single non-Christian friend?

I do have some non Christian friends. And yes, everybody who isn't saved, has sinful habits to some extent. However, Charles Williams lived an overtly wicked lifestyle. And CS Lewis referred to him as his "dearest friend".

J.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, The Inklings, Narnia & the Golden Dawn-Part 1

During the 1930′s to 1940′s both Tolkien and Lewis were part of an informal literary discussion group associated with the ‘University of Oxford’ & known as the “Inklings”. C. S. Lewis called Charles Williams (Fellow “Inkling”, specialist in Tarot and Kabbalah & a man whose mind was steeped in occult rituals and demonic forces) ‘his dearest friend.’ This close friendship made a large impact on Lewis and his writings. C. S. Lewis wrote of Williams poems: ‘They seem to me… for their profound wisdom, to be among the two or three most valuable books of verse produced in the century.’ Charles Williams was also a member of the ‘Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn’.

There are many that assert that both Tolkien and Lewis were closet members of the Golden Dawn.

 

[Paradoxum]

He was a Christian, he just wasn't as narrow minded and repressed as some people.

I'd say that being a reluctant convert makes his case stronger for being Christian. It would seem, as first glance, to make his conversion less bias based.

Also, I suspect that when he talks of a subspecies of Christ, I assume he means addressing Christ indirectly.