Deaths already rising sharply, Holdout Republican Governors finally issue Mask Mandates

[loveofourlord]

Didn't take long for that to turn into a Trump bash.

The simple truth is, Trump let them all decide for themselves how to deal with it, and if he had not done so, you all would surely have been on him for not letting them decice for themselves. Nothing more to it.



The sympathy card is not an automatic win, you have to have something aside from that to make it work. In this case, a refute would have been helpful, and if not, best just let it be.

NO HE DID NOT, he actively went against them when they started to make any attempts to control it.

 

[loveofourlord]

I am opposed to judging people for their choices and opposed to mandates of said messures.

Why not they kill people. We should judge people for being selfish and reckless.

 

[Kenny'sID]

NO HE DID NOT, he actively went against them when they started to make any attempts to control it.

How did he do that?

 

[loveofourlord]

How did he do that?

I seem to recall something about, "LIBERATE X." when governors tried to stop the spread of covid.

 

[loveofourlord]

Now that we've both demonstrated our fluency in hyperbole, let us continue.



And the curve was indeed flattened.



I do not recall anyone making that statement -- I do recall someone in a position of power (highly ignorant of the science involved and not particularly inclined to learn) claiming that the virus would "miraculously" go away as the weather warmed up.

Obviously this did not happen -- and it's saddening (but not surprising) how many people assumed it would.

Meanwhile, the rest of us have enjoyed the flattened curve, but have remained vigilant for the pandemic's inevitable second wave....which seems to be almost upon us.

Now we're just hoping that the severity of the second wave won't be exacerbated too badly by the actions of those who never took the first wave seriously.



They seem to know what they're doing just fine -- perhaps had you listened to them, you would too.

It takes courage to say and do the right (but unpopular) thing... some folks got it (such as NJ Gov Phil Murphy):

...and some folks don't.

to be fair this is the third wave, 2nd was july. Yesterday was the first time this wave got close to the peak deaths of the 2nd wave.

 

[Halbhh]

Maybe because the governor knows he or she will take a LOT of heat over mask mandates in certain areas?

That might have been the case in the past, yes. ( a governor just afraid of some people in his/her state)

But now, with local hospitals getting or beginning to get overwhelmed, fewer people are in the dark about the reality now, and the opposition to mask wearing will fade a lot, except for a few people that don't even know the local area is having deaths and hospitals filling up.

 

[Sparagmos]

We'd all say that there is a big difference between having:

Oregon: 184 deaths per 100,000 population

vs.

North Dakota: 1,009 deaths per 100,000 population

North Dakota is actually approaching the very high death levels of that huge spring outbreak in New York/New Jersey/south New England area from way back early in the pandemic, when doctors knew so much less about how to treat it and we were still learning how we might prevent spread!

Think on that. Starting from a far better situation (much later in time with far more knowledge....), North Dakota is having deaths accumulate like the initial outbreak, in total contrast to initial outbreak states like New York which is now doing far better than in the spring.

We can see that a Governor makes a huge difference!

Why do so many people have to die before a governor gets the message??? Especially so far into this, so long after we learned so much?

Oregonian here. We wear masks and take this seriously. You’re correct.

 

[Sparagmos]

The issue isn't entirely math related. The issue is the fundamental flaw in the analysis re: risk and some flawed assumptions in your figures.

1) Your case count I'm assuming is based on identified cases. This is dependent on relative testing, and as we've seen with the higher prevalence of asymptomatic cases, the actual number of infected individuals is likely higher.

2) Case counts aren't static. Active case counts are continuously rising so the relative proportion of infected individuals is increasing.

3) Relative risk of any given individual has far more variables than just infected population / total population. A person who is a front line retailer employee and continuously interacts with the public would have a much higher risk than someone who is isolated from the same population. You can't just assume a broad % applies equally to everyone.

4) The pandemic has yet to run its course. The overall number of case counts and fatalities re: COVID-19 is going to continue to climb, so trying to calculate comparative mortality figures for populations to compare with the flu (which is endemic in the population) isn't really valid at this point in time.

If we're comparing straight lethality, something like comparative infection fatality rates is a more apt figure. And the comparisons I've seen for various age cohorts re: flu vs COVID-19, COVID-19 is far more lethal (IIRC,~10x) even if you're a younger adult.

Plus, consider the long term effects. My roommate works in imaging Dept at the hospital. A 14 year old girl, sadly, died in a car accident. My roommate did the imaging on the body and her lungs were horribly damaged. Turns out she had Covid. Surviving Covid doesn’t mean there aren’t serious long term effects.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I seem to recall something about, "LIBERATE X." when governors tried to stop the spread of covid.

Elaborate, please?

 

[loveofourlord]

Elaborate, please?

if you can't remember back in April or such, when I'm 90% sure you were responding to things back then then your hopeless, and no wonder the republicans keep falling for the same lies.

 

[loveofourlord]

For all of you so adamant against lockdowns and such, where is your sympathy for the doctors and nurses having to deal with your stupidity? They are going on strike and refusing to work in some places.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Trump first tweeted "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!" Then, a minute later, the president tweeted "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!"

Minutes after that, he added in another message, "LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!"

Trump tweets 'liberate' Michigan, two other states with Dem governors

 

[Kenny'sID]

if you can't remember back in April or such, when I'm 90% sure you were responding to things back then then your hopeless, and no wonder the republicans keep falling for the same lies.

Ok, fine, I'm hoples, but that still is not an answer to the question.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Ok, fine, I'm hoples, but that still is not an answer to the question.

Didn't you see the last post? #92?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Trump first tweeted "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!" Then, a minute later, the president tweeted "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!"

Minutes after that, he added in another message, "LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!"

Trump tweets 'liberate' Michigan, two other states with Dem governors

Liberate them from what?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Ok, fine, I'm hoples, but that still is not an answer to the question.

Except it is an answer -- just not one you're ideologically allowed to like.

Donald supported armed protests against governors who imposed public health restrictions, even going so far as to badmouth (from the safety of Twitter, of course) a governor who was the target of a right-wing terrorist group's plot to kidnap and potentially assassinate her.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Except it is an answer -- just not one you're ideologically allowed to like.

Except, no, it was no more of an answer than yours was. Now show me where what you claim in the following is a fact:

Donald supported armed protests against governors who imposed public health restrictions, even going so far as to badmouth (from the safety of Twitter, of course) a governor who was the target of a right-wing terrorist group's plot to kidnap and potentially assassinate her.

 

[Halbhh]

Liberate them from what?

Those Trump tweets to "Liberate" various states were on April 17th -- to "Libertate" the people from governors that issued stay at home orders to control the pandemic way back in late March and April -- when those kinds of lockdowns were the only thing understood to work well.

Back before we knew any other good way to block the virus spread in cities.

Before it was learned that mask wearing could strongly help to control the virus.

So, Trump seemed to be saying let the people free to risk getting the virus, as indeed many did after the lockdowns ended and they didn't wear masks and got unlucky.

Increasingly. More and more.

And here we are, post-"Liberate"....

 

[Kenny'sID]

Those Trump tweets to "Liberate" various states were on April 17th -- to "Libertate" the people from governors that issued stay at home orders to control the pandemic way back in late March and April -- when those kinds of lockdowns were the only thing understood to work well.

Back before we knew any other good way to block the virus spread in cities.

Before it was learned that mask wearing could strongly help to control the virus.

So, Trump seemed to be saying let the people free to risk getting the virus, as indeed many did after the lockdowns ended and they didn't wear masks and got unlucky.

Increasingly. More and more.

And here we are, post-"Liberate"....

Ah, I see, thanks. The reason I got no replies.

I suspected I was getting a bunch of twisted truth that didn't really amount to the actual point they were making. They get so easy to read after awhile.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Except, no, it was no more of an answer than yours was. Now show me where what you claim in the following is a fact:

Are you claiming Donald didn't support armed protests against governors enforcing COVID safety measures... measures originally recommended by his own CDC?

Are you claiming that there was no domestic terrorist plot to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer, "try" her for treason (the penalty for which, of course, is death), and burn down the state capitol?

Or are you claiming that Donald did in fact condemn the terrorists involved in this plot (assuming you acknowledge that such a plot existed and did not criticize Whitmer for continuing to promote COVID safety measures in spite of the attempt on her life?


Kindly let me know specifically which fact you're denying...