Death

[RileyG]

Very recent research shows that we can inherit the memories of our ancestors. We see this with people who had ancestors that were slaves. They say it is as if they can feel what their ancestors had to endure. They take this a step further to say our interaction with some people today can be a result of our ancestor's interaction with their ancestors.

That's really interesting considering how our DNA is passed from generation to generation.

 

[RileyG]

I find it bizarre to believe that a stillborn baby will be resurrected as a 25-30 year old adult. How will anyone in heaven recognize that person?

I think in heaven we will have a greater understanding of ourselves and others than we do now. In a spiritual sense, we will recognize that person.

 

[Sorn]

I find it bizarre to believe that a stillborn baby will be resurrected as a 25-30 year old adult. How will anyone in heaven recognize that person?

I was not referring to edge cases, but rather to what happens to most people that die as adults. I don't know how God will handle babies & children etc but probably not the way He will handle you & I

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think in heaven we will have a greater understanding of ourselves and others than we do now. In a spiritual sense, we will recognize that person.

It seems that the more I think about heaven, the less I really understand about it. I am content to accept a wide range of possibilities, including this one, but I refrain from offering them as any more than my personal speculations. As I said previously, I Corinthians 15 is my lodestar concerning the resurrection of believers.

 

[RileyG]

It seems that the more I think about heaven, the less I really understand about it. I am content to accept a wide range of possibilities, including this one, but I refrain from offering them as any more than my personal speculations. As I said previously, I Corinthians 15 is my lodestar concerning the resurrection of believers.

I think heaven is going to be so glorious none of us can possibly imagine it! It's going to be beyond wonderful.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think heaven is going to be so glorious none of us can possibly imagine it! It's going to be beyond wonderful.

I agree! Thank you!

 

[Diamond72]

I think in heaven we will have a greater understanding of ourselves and others than we do now. In a spiritual sense, we will recognize that person.

In Heaven, we just know who people are. Even people we have never seen before. Knowledge and perception.

 

[Sorn]

In Heaven, we just know who people are. Even people we have never seen before. Knowledge and perception.

thats a one big assumption. I am sure that rather, one of the activities we will do in Heaven, & ways we will spend our time, will to be meet and get to know the other citizens there.

 

[eleos1954]

Hmmm. Imagine this scenario. A sailor dies at sea and his body is given a proper send off into the ocean. Some passing sharks dine on it. They die in due time and are eaten by others. Eventually the atoms of the sailor get distributed and some of them end of in the tuna salad sandwich you ate last week. You are, therefore, a cannibal (of sorts).

Cannibalism is the act of consuming another individual of the same species as food.

It's at the species level.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Most Christians and mainstream Christianity believes that something that is you does continue. If it doesn't, that is if you cease to exist completely, then you can't be brought back to life, the best that God could do in those circumstances is to make a copy of you, so it would be the 1st copy or clone of you that would go into eternal life, but not you.
I don't think that is the case, i think something that is us, that God will not copy and that is needed to have in a physical body for it to be alive survives our death. This thing is most commonly referred to as the soul, spirit, consciousness etc, & is something that only God can destroy.

I'm sure God wants the actual people who made the choice for Him in Heaven and not a copy of them.

I agree that most people in mainstream Christianity believe that something that is you continues after a human being dies. But the simple fact that the majority of Christians or most Christians and mainstream Christianity believes something continues to exist after a person dies doesn't make that true. The scriptures are the final authority on whether something continues to exist or not when a person dies, and from what I have read in the scriptures its my understanding that the scriptures teach very clearly that human beings are living persons, not that they have living persons in their human bodies. So since the scriptures teach human beings are living persons what continues after a person dies? I don't believe what the serpent told Eve, that there is no death, so I don't believe a person continues living after a human being dies. Like I said, what I've read from the scriptures, they teach human beings are living persons so when a human being dies isn't he/she no longer a living person? Isn't the scriptures teaching us that death means you're no longer a living person when you die? If we reason differently from that, are we not agreeing with the serpent who said there is no death, are we not saying a person continues to be a living person after a human being dies, therefore denying death just as the serpent did?

 

[Sorn]

I agree that most people in mainstream Christianity believe that something that is you continues after a human being dies. But the simple fact that the majority of Christians or most Christians and mainstream Christianity believes something continues to exist after a person dies doesn't make that true. The scriptures are the final authority on whether something continues to exist or not when a person dies, and from what I have read in the scriptures its my understanding that the scriptures teach very clearly that human beings are living persons, not that they have living persons in their human bodies. So since the scriptures teach human beings are living persons what continues after a person dies? I don't believe what the serpent told Eve, that there is no death, so I don't believe a person continues living after a human being dies. Like I said, what I've read from the scriptures, they teach human beings are living persons so when a human being dies isn't he/she no longer a living person? Isn't the scriptures teaching us that death means you're no longer a living person when you die? If we reason differently from that, are we not agreeing with the serpent who said there is no death, are we not saying a person continues to be a living person after a human being dies, therefore denying death just as the serpent did?

Sure, i hope your clone enjoys the fruits pf your labors then

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Sure, i hope your clone enjoys the fruits pf your labors then

Just because you believe it's a clone being resurrected because you believe and teach that it's impossible for God to resurrect a human being back into existence as a living person that he/she was before that human being dies, doesn't mean that's true. God knows more about any human being than that human being knows about himself/herself. So every memory you have that makes you who you are before you died you will have when resurrected.

My understanding from reading and studying the scriptures is that the scriptures teach me that human beings are living persons, not that human beings have living persons in their human bodies. So the scriptures teach me that when a human being dies he/she is no longer a living person. It's also my understanding that to believe that a person continues to be a living person when a human being dies, then you're agreeing with the serpent who deceived Eve that she wouldn't die. You're denying death, because you're saying a human being continues to be a living person when a human being dies.

 

[Sorn]

Just because you believe it's a clone being resurrected because you believe and teach that it's impossible for God to resurrect a human being back into existence as a living person that he/she was before that human being dies, doesn't mean that's true. God knows more about any human being than that human being knows about himself/herself. So every memory you have that makes you who you are before you died you will have when resurrected.

My understanding from reading and studying the scriptures is that the scriptures teach me that human beings are living persons, not that human beings have living persons in their human bodies. So the scriptures teach me that when a human being dies he/she is no longer a living person. It's also my understanding that to believe that a person continues to be a living person when a human being dies, then you're agreeing with the serpent who deceived Eve that she wouldn't die. You're denying death, because you're saying a human being continues to be a living person when a human being dies.

No, i am saying that ones consciousness is separate from ones body and survives death.
If God resurrects someone because He knows everything about that person (ie recreates that person) He is still making a copy, the 1st copy of that person.
He could also use that information to make 100 copies of that person so that there would be 100 of you, for example, running around in heaven, clearly they can't all be you, in fact none of them would be the you reading this, just copies of you, each with thoughts that you will never think because they are not you.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

No, i am saying that ones consciousness is separate from ones body and survives death.
If God resurrects someone because He knows everything about that person (ie recreates that person) He is still making a copy, the 1st copy of that person.
He could also use that information to make 100 copies of that person so that there would be 100 of you, for example, running around in heaven, clearly they can't all be you, in fact none of them would be the you reading this, just copies of you, each with thoughts that you will never think because they are not you.

Yes human beings have consciousness, but a human beings consciousness is simply who they are as a living person. But what I can see from what you're teaching when you say that a human beings consciousness has nothing to do with the human beings flesh and blood human body but instead is separate from the flesh and blood human body, again all you're teaching is that when a human being dies he/she continues to be a living person, because you have to be a living person to have consciousness.
Consciousness is the living persons awareness of his/her unique thoughts, memories, feelings, and environment. So you're still saying a human being continues existing as a living person at death so you're still agreeing with the serpent who told Eve she wouldn't die, that there is no death.

So I will continue to believe from what I have read and understand from the scriptures, that a flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person when God blew the breath(spirit) of life into the flesh and blood human body. So when a human being dies he/she is no longer a living soul or living person.

 

[Studyman]

Most Christians and mainstream Christianity believes that something that is you does continue. If it doesn't, that is if you cease to exist completely, then you can't be brought back to life, the best that God could do in those circumstances is to make a copy of you, so it would be the 1st copy or clone of you that would go into eternal life, but not you.

In my understanding of scriptures, there is one death for some, and two deaths for others. In the first death, which all or certainly most all experience, we lose consciousness. We know nothing, not even that we are dead. We can no longer Sin, nor can we praise God. But our individual spirit is persevered by God for a resurrection in which we will become conscious again and judged by the things we have done. In the realm of time, that God created, this would be in some cases centuries, as with Noah. But because God, nor the spirits that return to Him, are not influenced by time, when the dead are raised, it will seem like only seconds to them. Like the Rich man in the Parable Jesus told had no idea that he had been dead for 1000 years while Abraham and Lazarus reigned with Christ. I can post the Scriptures for anyone who wants to see them. For some, this resurrection is permanent, as the Judgment they receive, isn't eternal death but eternal life. But for others, the judgment is another death. This death, called the 2nd death, is everlasting. It is a death from which there is no return, in which we do "cease to exist completely".

I don't think that is the case, i think something that is us, that God will not copy and that is needed to have in a physical body for it to be alive survives our death. This thing is most commonly referred to as the soul, spirit, consciousness etc, & is something that only God can destroy. I'm sure God wants the actual people who made the choice for Him in Heaven and not a copy of them.

It is a fascinating subject, and according to scriptures, is pretty simple to understand. However, because men don't really believe much of what is written, and no one wants to die, there have been myths and religious tradition, and even huge businesses created around the topic of death since the very beginning, when the deceiver convinced Eve, "Thou shall surely not die". Certainly, a popular religious philosophy in this world that God placed us in.

Great topic.

 

[Fervent]

I agree that most people in mainstream Christianity believe that something that is you continues after a human being dies. But the simple fact that the majority of Christians or most Christians and mainstream Christianity believes something continues to exist after a person dies doesn't make that true. The scriptures are the final authority on whether something continues to exist or not when a person dies, and from what I have read in the scriptures its my understanding that the scriptures teach very clearly that human beings are living persons, not that they have living persons in their human bodies. So since the scriptures teach human beings are living persons what continues after a person dies? I don't believe what the serpent told Eve, that there is no death, so I don't believe a person continues living after a human being dies. Like I said, what I've read from the scriptures, they teach human beings are living persons so when a human being dies isn't he/she no longer a living person? Isn't the scriptures teaching us that death means you're no longer a living person when you die? If we reason differently from that, are we not agreeing with the serpent who said there is no death, are we not saying a person continues to be a living person after a human being dies, therefore denying death just as the serpent did?

Do you worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Is He the God of the living or the God of the dead?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Do you worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Is He the God of the living or the God of the dead?

The true God who created all things and is the source of all life is YHWH. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. At Matthew 22:31,32 this scripture talks about the resurrection and regarding the resurrection it's teaching us that the True God YHWH is the God of the living. The problem I have with people is they disregard the fact that Matthew 22:31,32 is talking about the resurrection of the dead. The word resurrection means, "raising up from the lifeless condition of death." So although the True God YHWH is the God of the living, that doesn't mean that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not dead, or not in a lifeless condition of death. God at Matthew 22:31,32 was saying that he was the God of the living because the resurrection is a guarantee fact to happen, it will not be stopped. So because the resurrection is a guaranteed fact to happen, that nothing will stop it, the scripture at Luke 20:38 tells us that to the True God YHWH, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are living to him. That doesn't mean that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, are not in a lifeless condition of death. YHWH God has judged Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worthy of life so will be raised up from a lifeless condition of death in the resurrection. If someone says that the dead are not in a lifeless condition of death, then its my understanding from what I read and understand from the scriptures that someone is denying death. They have been deceived by the serpent who deceived Eve who said she wouldn't die.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

In my understanding of scriptures, there is one death for some, and two deaths for others. In the first death, which all or certainly most all experience, we lose consciousness. We know nothing, not even that we are dead. We can no longer Sin, nor can we praise God. But our individual spirit is persevered by God for a resurrection in which we will become conscious again and judged by the things we have done. In the realm of time, that God created, this would be in some cases centuries, as with Noah. But because God, nor the spirits that return to Him, are not influenced by time, when the dead are raised, it will seem like only seconds to them. Like the Rich man in the Parable Jesus told had no idea that he had been dead for 1000 years while Abraham and Lazarus reigned with Christ. I can post the Scriptures for anyone who wants to see them. For some, this resurrection is permanent, as the Judgment they receive, isn't eternal death but eternal life. But for others, the judgment is another death. This death, called the 2nd death, is everlasting. It is a death from which there is no return, in which we do "cease to exist completely".



It is a fascinating subject, and according to scriptures, is pretty simple to understand. However, because men don't really believe much of what is written, and no one wants to die, there have been myths and religious tradition, and even huge businesses created around the topic of death since the very beginning, when the deceiver convinced Eve, "Thou shall surely not die". Certainly, a popular religious philosophy in this world that God placed us in.

Great topic.

I understand that most Christians and mainstream Christianity believes that something that is in human beings continues to exist when a human being dies, and I understand that many believe that if something doesn't continue to exist, that is if a human being ceases to exist completely, then they believe a human being can't be brought back to life.

I disagree with this because from what I have read and studied from the scriptures the scriptures don't say a human being has a living soul or living person in the human body. The scriptures teach, from what I have read and understand, that human beings are living souls or living persons. Genesis 2:7 is very clear to me, it teaches me that if the breath(spirit) of life is separate from the flesh and blood human body, then that breath(spirit) of life separately on it's own, not being in a flesh and blood human body isn't a living soul or living person. It takes the breath(spirit) of life and a flesh and blood human body combined together for there to be a living soul or living person. So if the breath(spirit) of life leaves the flesh and blood human body there is no living soul or living person in existence anymore that living soul or living person has ceased being a living soul or living person. To say otherwise from my understanding of Genesis 2:7 would be saying that Genesis 2:7 isn't true that it's A lie, and I don't believe that to be true. When someone says that if a human being ceases to exist completely and says they can't be brought back into existence as a living person again then I believe those people to be without faith.

I don't agree that a human beings spirit is preserved by God so that spirit will be resurrected.The spirit in human beings is the same spirit in animals so is impersonal, which means it has no personal traits of a living person. So since you're saying God is preserving the spirit what exactly is he preserving that you say is to be resurrected.

 

[Fervent]

The true God who created all things and is the source of all life is YHWH. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. At Matthew 22:31,32 this scripture talks about the resurrection and regarding the resurrection it's teaching us that the True God YHWH is the God of the living. The problem I have with people is they disregard the fact that Matthew 22:31,32 is talking about the resurrection of the dead. The word resurrection means, "raising up from the lifeless condition of death." So although the True God YHWH is the God of the living, that doesn't mean that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not dead, or not in a lifeless condition of death. God at Matthew 22:31,32 was saying that he was the God of the living because the resurrection is a guarantee fact to happen, it will not be stopped. So because the resurrection is a guaranteed fact to happen, that nothing will stop it, the scripture at Luke 20:38 tells us that to the True God YHWH, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are living to him. That doesn't mean that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, are not in a lifeless condition of death. YHWH God has judged Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worthy of life so will be raised up from a lifeless condition of death in the resurrection. If someone says that the dead are not in a lifeless condition of death, then its my understanding from what I read and understand from the scriptures that someone is denying death. They have been deceived by the serpent who deceived Eve who said she wouldn't die.

The Sadducees denied the resurrection for much the same reasons you seem to deny the persistance of a human life after death. God is the God of the living, not was adn will be. So if God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob then Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive to this day as is every saint that died in Christ.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The Sadducees denied the resurrection for much the same reasons you seem to deny the persistance of a human life after death. God is the God of the living, not was adn will be. So if God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob then Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive to this day as is every saint that died in Christ.

You have the right to believe that the living continue living when a human being dies, but it's my understanding from what I've read in the scriptures that Genesis 2:7 is stating that if a flesh and blood human body doesn't have the breath of life in it then there is no longer a living soul or living person. I believe Psalms 146: 4 confirm this.

Now you're telling me that you believe Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have been resurrected. I don't agree that the scriptures say that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have been resurrected yet, at least not to my understanding from what I read in the scriptures. Those who died in Christ are those who were called Christians starting with the apostles, they meaning all those who died in Christ starting with the apostles will be resurrected first before Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.