Death

[murjahel]

Death...?
what is it?
if it is 'appointed unto men to die, and after this
the judgment',
what does that mean, esp if some, like Lazarus,
died twice...?​

first, in any exegesis, it is wise to
define the word...
what is 'death'?​

in Genesis 2:17
we are told ...
not to eat of the tree of knowledge
of good and evil, and added
“in the day that thou eatest thereof,
thou shalt surely die.”​

did they die physically that day?
no, not that literal day...
but death came upon mankind,
and many years later, they had to die physically...
but did they die that day spiritually? yes...​

When Jesus came, He conquered 'death'
in one way... no longer is my spirit dead,
but I already have eternal life...
spiritually...
but my body is still in the process of dying,
and it began dying the moment it began living
for the 'bodily' death still is in effect...​

Romans 8:19-24
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth
for the manifestation of the sons of God. ​

For the creature was made subject to vanity,
not willingly,
but by reason of him who hath
subjected the same in hope, ​

Because the creature itself also shall be
delivered from the bondage
of corruption
into the glorious liberty of the children of God. ​

For we know that the whole creation groaneth
and travaileth in pain together until now. ​

And not only they, but ourselves also, which
have the firstfruits of the Spirit,
even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
waiting for the adoption, to wit,
the redemption of our body. "​

So, we, now, have the 'firstfruits' of Jesus'
victory, and are 'alive' spiritually,
with eternal life... but this body we are in
is awaiting something...
for it is still dying....
when it does die, it is guaranteed by
our 'firstfruits' that we will have an
eternal body...​

we are in the process of getting
that eternal body... still, bodily, in a
corrupting process called 'death'...​

I Cor. 15 explains a bit...
Behold, I show you a mystery;
We shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed, ​

In a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed. ​

For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.. ."​

AT THE RAPTURE,
the dead in Christ, are risen,
and the dust of their old body is
changed into an incorruptible body,
...
we who are alive,
are changed too... in a split second,
the mortal is changed into that immortal
body...
death occurs in that split second to the
mortal, and in that same split second,
the immortal takes its place...​

so, that is an instantaneous death and
resurrection, in effect...
still the 'mortal has died', and no longer
is the covering for our spirit...
the spirit is now covered with an immortal
body, never to die...
and that is the 'change' that it spoken of...​

so...
'death' is the disposal of the mortal body,
the spirit leaving it to go to the immortal body,
and the passing away to dust of the mortal,
to have that same dust become part of the
immortal body...​

so... that is physical death...
and it is appointed unto man for that
to happen ONCE...​

so what of resurrected people?
like Lazarus... and others we see resurrected...​

Spiritual death puts us in the process of
experiencing physical death....
spiritual death came upon Adam and Eve
that same day of their sin...
and their bodies began to die...​

When Jesus raised the 'daughter'
in the home, He said,
'she is not dead, she sleepeth'...​

What did He mean?
when the body ceases life, but is going
to be brought back to life, in that same body,
not in the eternal one, it is called 'sleeping'...
for the body has not perished, is still there
to be brought back to 'mortal life'...​

Lazarus, when resurrected, was brought back
to mortal life, still mortal...
so that was a body sleep...
he later, some thirty years later, according to
early church writings, then died, and
that body passed away... that was his 'once'....
for that time, the mortal body perished,
and the spirit of Lazarus is still in the process
of 'waiting for the adoption, the redemption of the
body'... and that happens for all of us on
resurrection day...​

Sinners who die or have died,
are still in that 'once' time too...
their bodies are perished, and they
will be resurrected to a new body someday,
(not on our 'first' resurrection' day,
but at the 'second' resurrection,
they get their new body, to be sent into
the lake of fire, where they eternally live
in their eternal body, but in torment and pain...​

they have their 'once' to die,
and 'after this the judgment'...​

The ONCE that is mentioned ...
is speaking of the 'dying to go to the judgment'
and that happens once...​

we, when separated from the mortal body,
and it is dust, cannot come back to a mortal body...​

Moses did not, he came back in a temporary
body, still awaiting his resurrected eternal body...
Elijah was still in his mortal body, for it had
not died yet,...
and Jesus was seen in His eternal glory...
so we see three kinds of bodies at that event...​

When sin came, the whole of man died...
the spirit died... the body entered the process
of death... death began to reign...
its reign will end someday...
when death is fully conquered...
​

.​

I Cor 15:24-28​

For he must reign,
till he hath put all enemies
under his feet. ​

The last enemy that shall
be destroyed is death. "​

So, we are in the process of destroying
all the enemies of God..
death is an enemy, death will someday be eliminated...
the 'appointed' unto death, is then
conquered... and mankind in the new
earth will never die...
they still can die in the millennium if
they sin, but by the end of the millennium,
the victory over death is completed...​

the last enemy to be defeated is
death, it is not a cancelled appointment
then till this last day event in the millennium,
when 'death' is finally eliminated...​

so... till then,
it is 'appointed unto men, once to die,
and after this the judgment'​

the deaths of Lazarus, of Jairus' daughter,
of others,...
was a 'sleeping' for they
had not come to the 'judgment' time,
and their resurrection
was to a mortal, not to an immortal body,
so that was not a finished death,
but a cancelled death in each case...​

they later died, their mortal body perished,
never to be resurrected to a mortal body
again, but the dust will become an
immortal body, never to die again...
our immortal body will never die again...
we face 'death' but once...​

if we die in our mortal body,
and it is raised to life a mortal body,
that is what Jesus called 'sleep'...
for death had not fully claimed the body,
the spirit had re-entered the mortal...​

our spirit will only once depart to
mortal to enter an immortal body...​

only two have not died yet...
of the old testament saints...
Enoch and Elijah,
and they still face their 'once to die,
and after
this the judgment'​

 

[murjahel]

Death is a process...
it begins with 'spiritual death'...
Adam and Eve both died spiritually on
the day of their sin...

the devil had intimated 'will ye surely die?"
and a lot of misunderstanding of 'death'
aids his lies like that...

death of the body is separation of the
soul from the body...
that can happen,and the soul can re-enter
the body, and death has then been
cancelled, as with Lazarus...

death of the spirit is separaton of the spirit
from God...
that can be cancelled by repentance, and God's
mercy... we call that salvation,
being born again...

so, death is more than physical, it can be spiritual..
we, who are sved, are given
eternal life... it starts on the spirit,
it is born again to new life right away...
later, a resurrection gives us an eternal body...

in the middle is the 'death process working
on this physical body...
we age, we wrinkle, we sweat,
we bald, and our bodies are slowly dying...

it is appointed unto us,
once to die...
and after that death is final,
we face judgment...
either an eternal body for the lake of fire,
or an eternal body to dwell with Jesus forever...

Enoch and elijah are still in their human body...
kept alive, but still able to die...
once we get our eternal body,
once they get theirs,
it is only once we come to that kind of
death...
and we live eternally then...​

 

[murjahel]

'it is appointed unto man
once to die,
and after that, the judgment'...

that means that someday death will
no lonber have an affect...
there is a 'judgment time, that until then,
there is an appointement with death...

sin came int o this world,
bringing death on mankind...

someday, in the new creation,
death will have no more hold,
it will not be appointed for them to die...
for there is no more sin...

this world is contomanated by sin...
and with sin, is death..
even the righteous still are in tis cursed world,
the curse is not on us, but our bodies
are 'waiting for the adoption, i.e. the redemption
of the body' (Romans 8)...
so ... till that RESURRECTION/RAPTURE time,
we do face bodily death

during the millennium, Jesus will be
removing the curse from this world...

the last enemy to be destroyed,
according to the Bible is 'death'...
and at the end of the millennium,
the devil is loosed from the abyss for a short
time, and a crowd of humans in the millennial
period will follow him, and be judged
by fire from heaven, seeing death...

those followers of the devil there
are the last ...
from then on, all will be righteous on the
new heaven/earth....
God will come down to dwell there...
the New Jerusalem will never have a sinner
walk its streets, for there will be no sinners...
and so...
no more death...

'appointed ... once to die... afterthat the judgment'
so...
after the judgment, no more appointments to die..​

 

[murjahel]

THE LORD'S VIEW OF DEATH​

Psalms 116:15 NKJV
"Precious in the sight of the LORD
is the death of His saints." ​

What is a "saint"?
We have heard certain religious bodies use
that word for some few, special,
beloved Christians who few could claim to have equaled in works...
St. John, St. Peter, etc.​

Yet, the Greek word is "nagios"
meaning "a holy one".​

It is used in the Bible to refer to all Christians...​

When we accepted Jesus as our Savior,
the Lord took away all our sins,
and we became "new creations" in Christ Jesus.
Our sins were forgiven by God,
and when God looks at a forgiven Christian,
He sees "a saint."​

The Lord looks upon a body,
lying in the casket, differently than do we...​

He sees the empty shell of the person,
but the real person has departed the body,
and gone on to be with the Lord Jesus
Who forgave the sins,
and made the person to be a true saint...​

The Lord is in heaven with the beloved saint... ​

To the Lord, the death of the saint was "precious" and wonderful...
The homecoming of the saint is very "precious" to the Lord!​

We do not feel so joyful,
when we attend a funeral!
We are in sorrow and grief...
but the Lord has the Word of God
describe His feelings as
"precious"
(Hebrew = yaqar, valuable, rare). ​

In the death of a saint,
the Lord is on the receiving end of the event,
and we are on the losing side... ​

The presence of the saint has been
acquired by the Lord,
but the same presence has been given
by we who are left behind... ​

The Lord acquires a loved one to His heavenly abode,
and we must relinquish the same loved one
from their earthly sojourn with us... ​

Therefore, we sorrow in the loss,
and the Lord rejoices in the gain...​

We miss their presence,
but the Lord welcomes them home.​

Death is the separation of the soul and spirit from the body.
At death, we see the body of the beloved saint,
but the real person, the soul and the spirit of the saint,
is no longer in our midst,
but is safely in the presence of the Lord.​

The Lord and His angels are rejoicing with the saint...​

2 Corinthians 5:6-9
6. So we are always confident, knowing that
while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
7. For we walk by faith, not by sight.
8. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather
to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9. Therefore we make it our aim,
whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him.​

The departed saint is "well pleased"
for they are with Jesus and saints gone ahead... ​

In the presence of the Lord,
there is no more struggle,
no more pain,
no more laboring to walk...​

We all long for such a day...
and it is the hope of that day
that keeps us struggling down here... ​

When we accepted the Lord as our Savior,
our soul and spirit were given at that moment,
eternal life...​

So when death (the separation of the body
from our soul and spirit) occurs...
the body ceases to function... ​

The spirit and soul, depart to be with Jesus,
and still exists, and is "well pleased..."
to be with the Lord... ​

Death has no sting nor pain for the saint...
the Lord is pleased, the dying saint is joyous...​

 

[whatfor]

Did not read this all , was a bit too long for me.
But I felt death was when our bodies are unable to function anymore.
Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping, not dead.
His body was dead, it could not function.
When he was raised from the dead his body was healed and his spirit returned to his body..
His spirit was not in his body but sleeping, resting.

 

[Svt4Him]

Why the centered font?

 

[murjahel]

Why the centered font?

it is a vision problem,
...​

 

[murjahel]

Did not read this all , was a bit too long for me.
But I felt death was when our bodies are unable to function anymore.
Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping, not dead.
His body was dead, it could not function.
When he was raised from the dead his body was healed and his spirit returned to his body..
His spirit was not in his body but sleeping, resting.

as far as death being 'when our bodies are unable
to function anymore' is a medical idea, and if
is designed to allow someone to pull the plug when
they think we are 'unable'...
sometimes they are wrong...
that is not what death is...

death is when the soul leaves the body...
before it is accepted in heaven, or bound in heaven,
it can return, and then death is cancelled...

death is appointed for us to have
once... and afterthat the judgment...​

if we seem to die,
or actually are medically dead,
but the soul returns to the body,
the death is cancelled...​

Moses died, his body buried ..
it turned to dust...
so... he was dead bodily when
seen on the mount of transfiguration...​

Elijah was still in his human body,
not dead yet...
and will not die till the trib time as
one of the two witnesses...​

Lazarus lived 30 years after his soul returned
to his body... and then he died his 'once'...
and stayed dead that time...​

death has different definitions to the medical
field, versus to God...​

spiritual death is the worst death...
and it happens when sin is in a person,
and the Lord is not...
it is fatal eternally, leads to the second death
after the judgment...​

physical death of a child of God,
is precious in the sight of God..
for it is a calling home...​

when we are 'born again',
we have spiritual life again...​

Jesus will soon resurrect dead bodies
making them eternal bodies,
and changes mortal living bodies to
immortal eternal bodies...​

raptured bodies die on the way
to the ceiling, and before the dead body
makes a hole in the ceiling, it is
an eternal body... alive ...​

so... even raptured bodies die...
and in a split second become an immortal
body...​

Elijah's and Enoch's rapture were
not the same kind of rapture,
for Jesus was the 'firstfruits' of the
kind of rapture that makes us eternal bodies...
Enoch and Elijah were translated in their
human bodies...​

 

[murjahel]

Spiritual death is far more horrible
than physical death,
but people get it backwards far too often...

We have, so easy, a resurrection from
spiritual death available...

All true life is in Christ...
Without Him we are really dead...

There are many corpses walking about...
Some in churches...

For they are ‘dead in trespasses and sins’
and that death is more real and actual,
than for a saint to have his/her body die...

We have, as Christians, live spirits...
That live, in a real, true way...
In contrast to sinners, who are dead spiritually...

Every believer is in reality and forever in life...
And this life is ever increasing...
Our bodies start to die,
once life has come to them at birth....

But our spirits continue to increase in LIFE
as we maintain relationship with Jesus.

The Bible shows us that two companies participate in the rapture...

I Thess. 4:13-18 says that
(Vs. 16)
‘The dead in Christ shall rise first"

This speaks of the ‘dead bodies’,
for the spirits do not have to rise,
they are with the Lord...

Jesus was the first fruits of the resurrection...
And proved that this will occur as promised...

For He is the resurrection,
and these atoms that make up
the body of a believer in Jesus,
have something different about them...

They may be dust and scattered to the wind...
But those atoms have been permanently
marked by the One we call
the Resurrection...

And when He calls
"Come up hither"
those atoms will unite again,
and be changed from mortal atoms
to a resurrected body to be reunited
with the spirit that has already been with Jesus...

The second group at the rapture......
Are those
‘are alive and remain’...

And they or we,
in our mortal body will likewise hear
‘come up hither’...

And the LIFE Who is in us...
Jesus, Who has transformed our spirit to immortality
will transform this mortal body,
and in a moment, one split second,
will die and instantly almost become a new immortal body...

And we will be caught up into the clouds,
catching up with the ‘dead in Christ’
who had a head start...

Praise the Lord..
If you do not feel like jumping right
about now..
You are dead...
Quit reading,
and roll over in your casket....

But I will go on...
Paul said...
"In Christ shall all be made alive..."
I Cor. 15:52

The dead bodies,
awake from the dust to redemption
of resurrection
the live bodies at that moment...
will find the body joins what the spirit
already has gotten from Jesus...
LIFE...​

Colossians 3:4
"When Christ,
Who is our LIFE, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear
with Him in glory..."​

When a sinner accepts Jesus as Savior...
He/she becomes one with Him,
and is partaker of His LIFE...

We are grafted as a branch into the Vine...
And that Vine has life
flowing from it, into us...

We are connected, and share what He is..
And He is RESURRECTION AND LIFE...
John 15:1-8, Gal. 2:20

we are in union with Him...
I Cor. 15:45
"the last Adam was made
a quickening spirit..."

I John 5:11-12
"He that hath the Son hath LIFE,

He that hath not the Son of God hath not life..."

Physical death cannot take
spiritual life from us...
we continue to live,
we put off this mortal body
and live on...

when the body is put off,
it is freeing the spirit and soul
that is really us...

Paul described the church at Sardis...
and said..
They ‘had a name that they lived,
but were dead..." (Rev. 3:1)

There are alot of people calling themselves
'alive' that are really dead...
but
even when my body is dead...
I live... and will live...
for eternity...

Jesus called the pharisees to be
‘whited sepulchres
full of dead men’s bones’

I Timothy 5:6
"She that liveth in pleasure,
is dead while she liveth..."

But...
If Christ Jesus is
RESURRECTION AND LIFE...

Then for us to ’die is gain’

for it opens up the door
of even more life for us...

Death has not only lost its sting...

It has lost its fear, its dread...

We see death of the body as a step
into more life...

We look forward to the rapture....
as a triumph of LIFE AND RESURRECTION...

One of my favorite songs is...
I’m gonna live forever...
I’m gonna die, no never..
Jesus died on a tree for me,
and I’m gonna live forever...

That is the chorus anyhow...
And I play it over and over...
but
I am going to live forever...

For I have the One
Who is the RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE...
And in union with Him...

Death has already lost the battle...
​

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Moses died, his body buried ..
it turned to dust...
so... he was dead bodily when
seen on the mount of transfiguration...​

So you say that Elijah and Jesus broke the Law and trafficked with the dead? -Jesus wouldn't do that.

But the Word does not say that the body of Moses is turned to dust, and the evidence is that Moses is alive and well, for, there Moses was, standing in it, speaking with Jesus about His upcoming death in Jerusalem, along with Elijah; and they were two witnesses to Christ come in flesh and the Glory of Jesus', when He was transfigured before them.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

raptured bodies die on the way
to the ceiling, and before the dead body
makes a hole in the ceiling, it is
an eternal body... alive ...​

You go beyond and change what the Word does say. The Word does not ever claim that the body dies at the rapture. It is elementally changed [morphosed/transformed] in a twinkle of an eye.
Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The body will go through instant meta morphoses/ transformation /change, in the elements of it melting and reforming instantly, to the New Man image of it.
Our changed bodies will be our own bodies, with our own Designer parts made just for our souls to wear forever, all intact.
Even the hairs on our head will all be there, with not one missing, Jesus said, as they are all numbered in the Book of Life and not one will be lost in the resurrection or morphosed bodies of us.

 

[Cassidy]

Death is the absence of life.

 

[murjahel]

I Corinthians 15:51
uses the word 'changed'..
it is the word 'allasso' in the Greek language

G236
ἀλλάσσω
allassō
al-las'-so
From G243;
to make different:—change.

G243
ἄλλος
allos
al'-los
A primary word;
“else”, that is, different (in many applications):
—more, one (another),
(an-, some an-) other (-s, -wise).

Our present bodies get sick, are weak, and age...
slowly dying...
but at the rapture time,
we need to have an immortal, eternal body
for that trip to heaven...

This body needs 'changed'...
to become 'another' body,
not the mortal present one...

The new body, like those that are given
those already dead, resurrected, will have,
are like them, changed...
different, eternal.. immortal.

For the ones who died previously,
that process took time...
but
the dust of the former body in them 'changed' also...

for they are the same personal identities,
just as Christ’s body was the same identity as His mortal body...
but it was changed...
His body was new, eternal, able to appear inside a room
which had locked windows and doors...
and yet, He had nailprints in this new body...
and it was a resurrected body...
the raptured bodies are changed, but still in identity
like unto resurrected bodies...

Jesus' resurrected body changed...
our raptured bodies are to be changed...
Lazarus was resurrected in the same body,
the mortal body, his death was cancelled... and he
lived another thirty years... in that mortal body....

Our raptured, resurrected bodies are 'changed'...
Jesus was the 'firstfruits' of that kind of 'change'...

It is impossible for our present bodies,
of flesh and blood,
to inherit God’s kingdom.

So, all of us are 'changed' into a new body...

This for the resurrected ones is via a death,
a waiting process,

but for the raptured ones,
suddenly at the rapture, we have the 'change'...

the resurrected ones have to have their soul
to return from heaven with Jesus
to be present at the change...

but for we that are raptured,
that change does not take long time,
but is in a split second...

What happens to the old body at that change...
the same thing that happened to those bodies that died...
it perished,
but the perishing and the making new
did not take years like it is for Paul's body...

no, the dying of the old,
the making into the new, is a change in a moment...

We are made different at the rapture,
just as we are made different in the resurrection...

the difference is timing... not in essence...
we end up with a new body, but same identity..
the same spirit and soul ...
now redeemed,
with a body not mortal...

We shall be 'changed'...​

 

[murjahel]

Our God is the living God
He is the Creator,
His power knows no bounds
and His dominion extends over life and death ​

This same God gave life to man
and sustains every man still ​

God connects life of the spirit of man,
with the mortal body of man,
now mortal due to sin...​

Our spirit and soul can become eternal at
salvation through the blood of Jesus,
but the body becomes eternal at the
'redemmption of the body',
at the rapture, resurrection day.​

God lives in heaven,
but is present also by His spirit in Sheol. ​

Saints that die, go immediately now to be with
Him till the resurrection time, wherein they get
eternal bodies to replace the temporary bodies
...
Previous to Jesus' death and resurrection,
their souls awaited in paradise, within sheol,
in the heart of the earth,
Jesus took those 'captives' to heaven
... so none had ceased to exist...​

the rich sinful man who died, had
gone to hell fire in sheol...
the poor beggar, Lazarus, went to
Abraham's bosom, i.e. paradise...​

both continued to exist...
now, we the saints, go directly to heaven
with God to await the resurrection...​

God can give escape from death,

can deliver when death menaces

can take Enoch and Elijah
to paradise or to heaven without dying,

can restore the dead to life back into their mortal body,

can even bring death to total defeat by rising from the dead

can offer that same 'change' to us,
in the resurrection/rapture event soon to come !​

 

[tturt]

I understand this thread is about physical, spiritual, etc. I'm studying the body, soul, and spirit. Some say that near death experiences can't be true because of "To be absent from the body..." To me no one really knows at what point the believer's soul and spirit is with Him (...is to be present with the Lord portion) but Him. (I understand He's in us, etc).

 

[murjahel]

I understand this thread is about physical, spiritual, etc. I'm studying the body, soul, and spirit. Some say that near death experiences can't be true because of "To be absent from the body..." To me no one really knows at what point the believer's soul and spirit is with Him (...is to be present with the Lord portion) but Him. (I understand He's in us, etc).

'to be absent from the body...'
when is 'absent'?

could the spirit leave the body,
and be near the body for a short time?
and not be in heaven immediately?

the Jews had a belief that it was
three days, wherein the soul remained
near the body...
I am not saying that, I am reporting
what they believed...

II Esdras in the apocryphal books
speaks of that...
I call it the "Prophecy of Ezra',
Jerome did a horrible job of translating it,
(on purpose)... and it is largely ignored...
I re-translated it... and it is very interesting
to read what he says....

if the spirit is near the body, but not
in heaven, the spirit could be called back
into the body, cancelling the death...

in the O.T. period, it was not
'to be absent from the body is to be
present with the Lord',
for the saints then went to paradise
in the heart of the earth, to await Jesus'
cruscifixion and resurrection,
He then took them to heaven...
and now, 'to be absent from the body'
is to go directly to God....

in the O.T., it speaks of the souls of the
wicked go hurriedly, immediaately to hell fire...
but no such verse of 'hurry' is found
for the souls of the righteous...

Elijah and Elisha saw young boys come
back to life...
their souls, spirits had to return into their bodies...
so, today, medical people would probably
call that a 'near death'... but we can see
it differently, and call it a resurrection,
or a cancelled death...
​

 

[murjahel]

This is the portion of that passage
in Ezra's prophetic book,
it was removed in the 1800's
from the protestsant canon,
by the Bible society,
because of the Bible beign too big with it in, supposedly...​

this is chapter 7:98-101​

7:98. Seventh, [and this is the greatest],
they will rejoice with boldness,
be confident without confusion,
be glad without fear,
for they will anxiously view the face
of the One Whom they served,
the One who has given them
the eternal rewards.​

99. These are the ways that the righteous
begin their reward, and the ways the wicked
enter into their eternal torment.​

100. Shall the righteous have
time after the spirits
leave their bodies, before they enter
their eternal habitations?​

101. He said to me: Seven days
they will have freedom,
that they may have things shown to them,
and then they will gather together
into the habitations.​

It is impossible to fully comprehend
the glory and joy that we will experience
when we are face to face with God.​

In the O.T., they did not go directly to heaven,
but waited in paradise,
for the passion week events to secure
their ability to stand face to face
with God, and be in heaven...​

I Corinthians 13:12
"For now we see through a glass darkly,
but then face to face;
now I know in part;
but then shall I know as I am known."​

"seven days" ​

The Jews taught that the spirit
hovered about the body for three days after death.​

This is likely the reason why Jesus
waited until the fourth day to resurrect Lazarus,
so the Jews could not claim that Lazarus
was not truly dead.​

Here, in the "Prophecy of Ezra",
we are told that the spirits
of the righteous have up to 7 days
of being shown things
before they arrive at the habitation where
they were to go, in that day it was paradise. ​

Some may want to say final farewells
as they view their loved ones at memorial services.
Though the ones left behind will not
see the presence of the spirit of the departed one,
perhaps God will allow us a final good-bye.​

Some may listen to the apologies,
or regrets spoken by the ones left behind.​

At any rate, this book of Ezra says
that up to 7 days
are given to prepare the righteous saints
for their arrival.​

Is this still true? If being 'absent' from the body,
is to be present with the Lord, how long is there
before the soul is 'absent' from the body?
does it remain about the body for a short while?​

I have heard of many tell of their spirit leaving the body,
hovering about it, later returning into it, and not
dying fully... but the body was dead for a while as the
spirit hovered near...​

I know what the book of Ezra's prophecy
says... but does it apply today?
is that true...
I am reporting on it...
not trying to persuade anyone...​

I am showing what the viewpoint of the Jewish
people was, and this passage shows part of their
reasons for believing such...​

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Death is the absence of life.

Yes. Absence means it is departed, which is separation.
Death of the spirit is the absence of "LIFE -the Glory Adam was made for [an example is in Ezekiel 10]", which means the separation from "LIFE". That is the first death in relation to our "Adam" being.

Death of the body is the absence of the soul, which means the separation from the body of the departed soul/spirit. That is the result of corruption entering and "feeding" on the Adam "dust creation" flesh.

In contrast, the New Man body of Christ come in flesh had no corruption in it, and in Him was Life. Because He had "Life" to lay down willingly, for us, He could be our Kinsman-Redeemer. -But He took it back up again, and in the 72 hours [three days and three nights] that His New Man body lay in the tomb, it could not corrupt, for, as Jesus said; "the prince of this world cometh and he has nothing in me".

We have corruption in us, feeding on our flesh from the time we are formed to the time it overtakes us and we depart it. Not so when it is transformed in its elements into the image of the New Man.

In the Living Oracles committed to the Namesake people of the New Man name [Israel], the solid gold [incorruptible] Mercy Seat which received the yearly rehearsal of the Atonement to come, once, for all, was an oracle of the New Man body of Christ come in flesh.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation/hilastērion through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


hilastērion [AV — propitiation 1, mercyseat 1 ]
a) used of the cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement

Hbr 9:5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat/
hilastērion; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

we need to have an immortal, eternal body
for that trip to heaven...

​

The created from dust body of our Adam race firstborn had residence in "heaven", in Eden, in Paradise, where the angels dwell and where Zion, the City of God, is, and where Adam got cast down from at the time of his defiling of that flesh and corruption entering -getting legal rights -to the flesh [to "feed" on it's elements of dust; Genesis 3:14].

Redemption is about being made a fit house for the Glory that Adam was made for, back, in a New Man body, and getting back to Paradise/Eden, in that New Man image.

When Christ came incarnate, in a New Man body of second human being creation, His New Man body was exactly what the body of Adam was made like in the beginning, without sin, but the Son of Man chose to strip Himself [bare naked]of the Glory He had in heaven, and come in the likeness of the stripped of Glory Adam flesh.


Isa 52:10 The LORD hath made bare [stripped bare naked] his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation/Yeshua of our God.
Because He was the LORD from heaven in that New Man body, He had "LIFE" in Him, and His body would never corrupt, ever, and He is in it forever and forever as our Kinsman, and our Firstborn/Everlasting Father of the Second Man creation, who have been adopted into His One Living Spirit.

So our New Man body will be exactly like His, which is right back where we began in Adam, when our firstborn father was placed in Eden above, to rule and have dominion over earth, from which he came.

But in the New Man image, because our Firstborn and Everlasting Father is the LORD from heaven, we will get more glory than Adam had and would have had at his "transformation without death" at the appointed time -after one thousand years, apparently, according to the ancient writing, the Book of Jasher. The Record Book, "Jasher", states that Adam died [physically] without fulfilling his "day", at 930 years of age; meaning one thousand years was the "day" he would have fulfilled before his transformation.

This transformation after the thousand year day is what those who enter the millennial reign as the "Blessed of YHWH" will receive, without dying, after populating the earth and filling it with "sons of God" of the human being kind, which is the purpose Adam was made male and female for [Malachi 3:15]. -I have Scriptures for all that, but much too much to lay it all out here, but anyone can study the theme for themselves to "see if these things be so".


Adam's body was formed in the very image of God the Word, who was to come, and that image is what we who are in the fallen, defiled Adam flesh will get back, in the regeneration of our flesh body:
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure/Tupos of him that was to come.
The latter House -temple of human beings, will have greater glory than the first human being house, because the "Last Man" has glory without measure, being the LORD of Glory, Himself, who shares His glory with us, His adopted -born again "sons"Hag 2:9

 

[yeshuasavedme]

In the O.T., they did not go directly to heaven,
but waited in paradise,
for the passion week events to secure
their ability to stand face to face
with God, and be in heaven...​

All souls waited in Sheol below, separated from the body of flesh, for their appointed time, as Enoch showed and as Jesus confirmed in Luke 16,. Even Abraham was in Sheol below, waiting for the Atonement, exactly as Enoch wrote about, in the separated place of the righteous with "refreshing breezes and bright springs of water".

When Jesus fulfilled the Atonement which was accepted, the souls waiting below were then cleansed in souls, perfected in spirit, and released from the captivity of the first death of separation from the presence of the Glory in Eden above -in Zion of the heavenlies.

Jesus led captivity captive at His acceptable Day of Atonement, and emptied Sheol of all the righteous souls held in the first death there, and they ascended into Paradise, heaven above, which is Eden.

Paradise has always been in heaven of the "outstretched breadth of the earth". Paul went there, when left as dead, and called it the third heaven.
Eden means the same as Paradise in Hebrew. That was where Adam got cast down from at the fall. That is what Jesus buys us back to give us in His New Man name, by His atonement.