Death Penalty...right or wrong?

[Simonline]

Pardon self for the poor spelling above.

Well, by that token, why not kill each and everyone of us. I agree that we are all sinners and deserves death but that is for God to execute, not us mortals.

You can't justify killing a man innocent of the crime for which he was convicted by saying 'we are all sinners...'

Spelling aside, God would be absolutely justified in killing each and every one of us and consigning us all to the everlasting Lake of Fire, since, there is no one righteous, no, not one.

I think that you have misunderstood me. I am not in any way attempting to justify the murder of an inocent person under any circumstances. The murder of an innocent person under whatever circumstances is always wrong and therefore unjustifiable.

What I am saying is that when a person's 'three score years and ten' have expired, the way in which the person dies won't affect that. Every person is 'allocated' a specific number of days for their life and the onus is on the individual to live according to the amount of truth that they know throughout their lifetime. If they are fortunate enough to have been able to hear the gospel during their lifetime then they need to respond positively to it as soon as possible in order to determine their everlasting destiny. The means of their death will have absolutely no bearing on their everlasting destiny if they have had opportunity to respond positively to the gospel and they have rejected that opportunity. The fact that they were 'murdered' or died 'peacefully in their sleep' will never be taken into account as mittigating circumstances by the Messiah (hence my reference to Lk.13:1-9). This is all that I am saying, not that the murder of an innocent person is somehow justified?!

Simonline.

 

[If Not For Grace]

If sin is not measured, why is the taking of a life considered worse than any other sin? If you had the power over life and death, would it be a big deal to you?

Me thinks, God is not so worried about how we end lives as how we live them.

There is a difference between killling and murder--

 

[Rusticus]

There is a difference between killling and murder--

Indeed. In both cases someone gets to be dead....

 

[HelloToAll]

Since when has God needed to defend himself?

Actually, I was referring to ordinary people, not God, who need to defend themselves.

Capital punishment has absolutely nothing to do with self defense. It is solely about justice with respect to the Creator's unlawful deprivation of one of his beloved subjects.

Capital punishment, in my opinion, has everything to do with self defense. By executing the murderers, we make people think twice about killing other people.

Capital punishment is the mandatory punishment for the capital crime of murdering a human being who is made in the image of God - the ultimate form of a direct attack upon God which is absolutely guaranteed to fail, every single time, without exception.

Exactly, we execute murderers who harm and kill their fellow people who are in God's image.

 

[HelloToAll]

...except of course for those innocent of the crimes they were convicted of.

Well, that's a different story. Those innocent people are of course framed of something they never had anything to do with.

How many of them have to die before it's wrong? (hopefully not many)

Hopefully, no person who is innocent will be executed and I pray that they will be released from prison with thier names cleared.

 

[Rusticus]

...Capital punishment, in my opinion, has everything to do with self defense. By executing the murderers, we make people think twice about killing other people. ....

That is all very well in theory. But in practice it is obviously not working.

Surely we, as a society, are clever enough to come up with more effective ways of achieving that.

 

[tulc]

Hopefully, no person who is innocent will be executed and I pray that they will be released from prison with thier names cleared.

...but if we imprison instead of execute doesn't that eliminate the worry? If our reason for executing people is because of the Bible, then why (in a country that isn't ruled by Scripture) can't we just move on to no executions?
tulc(just wondering!)

 

[lismore]

Hopefully, no person who is innocent will be executed

Its already happened

 

[AngelusSax]

Its already happened

You sure about that? Because I've yet to see anything that says "and this evidence proved the man's innocence after he was executed."

Doubt gets put in, but innocence, so far as I've seen, has yet to be shown. Usually the doubt is minimal, though of course we're supposed to be sure beyond a shadow of doubt.

 

[jasperbound]

Its already happened

We also have to use the same argument against incarceration. Surely there have been people who have died in prison who were actually innocent, unless the anti-capital punishment crowd believes that the courts are always right, or if they aren't, that they do rectify their errors in time to save lives, in which case, we need not worry about anybody being executed wrongly.

 

[Rev. Smith]

We also have to use the same argument against incarceration. Surely there have been people who have died in prison who were actually innocent, unless the anti-capital punishment crowd believes that the courts are always right, or if they aren't, that they do rectify their errors in time to save lives, in which case, we need not worry about anybody being executed wrongly.

I'm pretty sure that the courts are often wrong, and can't ever remember a prosecutor admitting he was wrong. Which is why we think killing people is a bad idea, untill we figure out a way to un-kill them.

 

[jasperbound]

I'm pretty sure that the courts are often wrong, and can't ever remember a prosecutor admitting he was wrong. Which is why we think killing people is a bad idea, untill we figure out a way to un-kill them.

And that's why I think incarceration is a bad idea until we figure out a way to go back in time and give people the time we stole from them and un-rape them as they will probably be raped in prison. And we also have to figure out a way to resurrect people from the dead, because some people have surely died in prison that didn't belong there.

 

[tulc]

And that's why I think incarceration is a bad idea until we figure out a way to go back in time and give people the time we stole from them and un-rape them as they will probably be raped in prison. And we also have to figure out a way to resurrect people from the dead, because some people have surely died in prison that didn't belong there.

Let me see if I understand what you're saying: it's better to kill some one who's innocent then let them be found out to be innocent and released? Let's say your son/daughter/friend is arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced to jail. You would rather he/she be killed instead of released at a later date? Or are you saying if a mistake is made it doesn't matter if the prisoner is killed or incarcerated?
tulc(just wondering)

 

[HelloToAll]

That is all very well in theory. But in practice it is obviously not working.

The reason that it's not working in practice, is because most of the killers and murderers are not sentenced to execution. Most of the times, they just get life in prison (followed by parole in the long run). If they have the money and power, they can hire themselves the best attorneys, and get acquitted.

 

[Rusticus]

This is a list of countries that have the death penalty:

• Afghanistan
• Antigua and Barbuda
• Bahamas
• Bahrain
• Bangladesh
• Barbados
• Belarus
• Belize
• Botswana
• Burundi
• Cameroon
• Chad
• China (People's Republic)
• Comoros
• Congo (Democratic Republic)
• Cuba
• Dominica
• Egypt
• Equatorial Guinea
• Eritrea
• Ethiopia
• Gabon
• Ghana
• Guatemala
• Guinea
• Guyana
• India
• Indonesia
• Iran
• Iraq
• Jamaica
• Japan
• Jordan
• Kazakhstan
• Korea, North
• Korea, South
• Kuwait
• Kyrgyzstan
• Laos
• Lebanon
• Lesotho
• Liberia
• Libya
• Malawi
• Malaysia
• Mongolia
• Nigeria
• Oman
• Pakistan
• Palestinian Authority
• Philippines
• Qatar
• Rwanda
• St. Kitts and Nevis
• St. Lucia
• St. Vincent and the Grenadines
• Saudi Arabia
• Sierra Leone
• Singapore
• Somalia
• Sudan
• Swaziland
• Syria
• Taiwan
• Tajikistan
• Tanzania
• Thailand
• Trinidad and Tobago
• Uganda
• United Arab Emirates
• United States
• Uzbekistan
• Vietnam
• Yemen
• Zambia
• Zimbabwe

 

[Cleany]

i find it ironic that many fundamentalist take a totally different line when it come to the death penalty, as opposed to eternal punishment.

if we were to imagine a punishment in line with fundementalist spiritual belief, that is, eternal punishment, then surely improsonment would be the more accurate representation of gods wishes?

i send a contradiction here, or perhaps, suspicious motives?

 

[Simonline]

This is a list of countries that have the death penalty:

• Afghanistan
• Antigua and Barbuda
• Bahamas
• Bahrain
• Bangladesh
• Barbados
• Belarus
• Belize
• Botswana
• Burundi
• Cameroon
• Chad
• China (People's Republic)
• Comoros
• Congo (Democratic Republic)
• Cuba
• Dominica
• Egypt
• Equatorial Guinea
• Eritrea
• Ethiopia
• Gabon
• Ghana
• Guatemala
• Guinea
• Guyana
• India
• Indonesia
• Iran
• Iraq
• Jamaica
• Japan
• Jordan
• Kazakhstan
• Korea, North
• Korea, South
• Kuwait
• Kyrgyzstan
• Laos
• Lebanon
• Lesotho
• Liberia
• Libya
• Malawi
• Malaysia
• Mongolia
• Nigeria
• Oman
• Pakistan
• Palestinian Authority
• Philippines
• Qatar
• Rwanda
• St. Kitts and Nevis
• St. Lucia
• St. Vincent and the Grenadines
• Saudi Arabia
• Sierra Leone
• Singapore
• Somalia
• Sudan
• Swaziland
• Syria
• Taiwan
• Tajikistan
• Tanzania
• Thailand
• Trinidad and Tobago
• Uganda
• United Arab Emirates
• United States
• Uzbekistan
• Vietnam
• Yemen
• Zambia
• Zimbabwe

Sadly, my own nation prefers to show its absolute contempt for all human life by not only abolishing the death penalty but by also having an embargo on any public calls for the reinstatment of the death penalty as evidenced by the fact that everytime someone is murdered in the UK and it is reported throughout the media, one never hears of the victim's relatives and friends calling for the reinstatement of the death penalty for murder...I wonder why that is?!

By the same reasoning why have successive British governments refused point blank to have a national referendum on capital punishment...is it because those same successive British governments know that the overwhelming majority of the British people would like to see it reinstated but those in power and the judiciary prefer to aid and abet their cohorts in the criminal fraternity rather than stand up for true justice (if those who lead 'Great' Britain have even the remotest concept of justice anymore)?!

Is it any wonder that this nation is under the judgment of God and the present government and judiciary is likely to be swept away to be replaced by the rule of Sharia law?! God will not be mocked. If he used Assyrians and Babylonians to discipline Israel then God will think nothing of using Islam to discipline 'Christian' Britain (Dan.4:34-35).

Simonline.

 

[PookySmiley]

The Lord made it clear to me that we are not to kill criminals. He can bring them to salvation, we can't deprive them of that chance.

 

[Simonline]

If sin is not measured, why is the taking of a life considered worse than any other sin? If you had the power over life and death, would it be a big deal to you?

Me thinks, God is not so worried about how we end lives as how we live them.

There is a difference between killling and murder--

If you had the power over life and death, would it be a big deal to you?

If that's what you think about God then it is crystal clear that you know quite literally ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the God of the Bible or the Judeo-Christian Faith.

As Love (1Jn.4:8) it matters absolutely to God what happens to all of his Creation, including each and every one of us. The fact that he loves you with every fibre of his Being is the ONLY reason that you are not now languishing forever in the everlasting Lake of Fire, where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, where the fire is not quenched and the worm [resurrection body] does not die...God himself (in the Person of the Messiah) has died in your place so that you NEVER have to experience the everlasting Lake of Fire. Yes, the value of human life is a big enough deal to warrant the sacrifice of the life of the Son of God as the Messiah in order to redeem the entire human race from that ultimate unimaginably horrific fate.

Sin cannot be measured since it is an absolute standard. Evil however, can be measured since evil is relative. All sin is the same morally speaking but all evil is not the same. Whilst all evil is sin, some things are more evil than others.

The unlawful taking of a human life, i.e. murder (not all taking of human life is unlawful (Gen.9:6; Ex.21:12; Rom.13:1-7)) is, as I have already said, tantamount to a direct attack upon God as the absolute authority and ruler of the Universe. As such, it will not be tolerated by God who, because of his absolutely Holy and Righteous Character (which, unlike ours, is not warped by sin), insists that it must be met with the ultimate punishment, the forfeiture of the murderer's life with no mercy shown whatsoever (being draged kicking and screaming from God's alter if necessary...no one is permitted to offer sanctuary to a murderer). Only in the case of accidental 'manslaughter' is any mercy to be shown (swat up on 'cities of refuge' and their purpose). Very few people today really appreciate the seriousness of sin in the way that God views it. Very few people today understand that all human life is sacrosanct (nor are they likely to when it has now been reduced to the level of a designer fashion accessory or 'spare parts' for a society which has now degenerated to the level of relativistic cannibals).

God is concerned about every single aspect of human existence, both how we live life, and how we end life since both will reveal the Truth about what we REALLY believe.

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

Indeed. In both cases someone gets to be dead....

You obviously cannot distinguish between 'difference' and 'similarity' so I will spell it out for you...

Murder is unlawful. Execution by those in lawful authority as an act of punitive judgment for an act of murder is lawful [if it is not an act of punitive judgment for an act of murder, then the execution itself is either a tragic and unfortunate accident, or, an act of murder, in which case those responsible for the execution (or, for 'framing' the victim) if found to be culpable, should be tried and executed in the same way]. Obviously, in both cases, someone dies. That is the similarity, not the difference.

Simonline.