Death Penalty...right or wrong?

[linssue55]

I'll never show you that, becasue I believe that Jesus is God, and that all that he taught was truth, in any age, in any time, for any purpose.

When he told me that I must learn to forgo anger and hate, recrimination and revenge I believed him, and I try (oh, how I try).

So please, go ahead and show me how the chruch, or any human authority can negate the teachings of God Incarnate. tulc and I are both at a loss as to how you got there....

NO, OF COURSE YOU WILL NEVER SHOW THAT, BECAUSE THERE IS "NO" VERSE!!!

CHRISTAIANS NEED TO GET OFF THEIR 'OWN SELF PERCIEVED, SELF INDULGENT, SELF "PRAISE", "I THINK THIS IS RIGHT, I THINK THIS IS WRONG"..... SOAP BOXES'. YOU KNOW GOD COULD CARE LESS WHAT WE THINK WHEN IT IS "CONTRARY AND OPPOSITE" TO HIS WRITTEN WORD.

romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

WHEN "GOD" SAY'S SOMETHING......"HE MEANS WHAT HE SAYS, AND HE SAY'S WHAT HE MEANS"........PERIOD

"GOD'S WORD", IS "FINAL"....NOT ALL OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.........."I THINK THIS, I THINK THAT".....ME, ME, ME ....I, I, I,.

IT'S NOT WHAT YOU "FEEL", THAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG......IT IS WHAT "GOD SAY'S THAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG".........PERIOD.

WHY CAN'T CHRISTIANS "GET" THIS??????

ARE CHRISTAINS SO "SELF INVOLVED" THAT THEY JUST " USURP" THEIR AUTHORITY OVER GOD'S??????

YOU THINK THAT GOD IS "NOTHING" BUT "LOVE"??????" YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW "ALL" OF HIS ATTRIBUTES, DO YOU?????

HIS LOVE IS PERFECT.......BUT HE HAS "9" OTHER ATTRIBUTES. WHAT ARE THEY?????

ONE OTHER OF HIS ATTRIBUTES IS "JUSTICE", PERFECT JUSTICE!!!
SO WHEN " THESE CANCERS OF SOCIETY" THAT ARE "STILL" RUNNING FREE ON OUR STREETS CONTINUING TO RAPE BABIES, OVER AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN!!! MURDERS, AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN. "AND THEY LOVE DOING IT".

CHRISTIANS JUST KEEP ON STTING HERE WITH YOUR NON-BIBLICAL, SELF PROCLAIMED, SELF RIGHTEOUS, SELF VINDICATED, SELF JUSTIFIED, SELF INDULGED, HUMAN VIEWPOINT "IDEAS" OF YOUR DEFINITION OF RIGHT AND WRONG, AND "KEEP ON" EXPRESSING IT AND BY YOUR OWN FREE WILL AND CONTINUE TO "IGNORE THE WORD OF GOD"........ARROGANCE!! PURE AND SIMPLE.

GOD IS THE "BOSS" AND WHEN HE SAY'S........

"AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH"....HE MEANS IT........ NOW WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU "NOT" UNDERSTAND????

GET OFF THE LOVE OF GOD, AND GET INTO THE "JUSTICE" OF GOD. HE USES CERTAIN ONE'S OF HIS ATTRIBUTES FOR CERTAIN CIRCUMSATNCES, AND "THIS" IS THAT CIRCUMSTANCE.

"THROUGH HIS LOVE, JUSTICE AND HOLINESS, HE DISCIPLINES".

romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


romans 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[immortalavefenix]

Linnuse I agree with you.

Though not with as much ferver.

And it is because I agree with you that I dont take to the letter the bible.

 

[linssue55]

Linnuse I agree with you.

Though not with as much ferver.

And it is because I agree with you that I dont take to the letter the bible.

Fever is needed in this situation (not anger).

What does the following mean?

And it is because I agree with you that I dont take to the letter the bible.

 

[Rev. Smith]

linssue55 - was there an answer in there?

 

[tulc]

"AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH"....HE MEANS IT........ NOW WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU "NOT" UNDERSTAND????

I think where I'm having the problem is why don't you quote the whole Scripture? You seem to have taken half of a scripture "It has been said..." and then ignored the rest of what He said "but I say...". Could you explain which scriptures are for us today, and which don't apply to us? and how you picked them? I'm a fairly simple guy and I've always assumed when reading the Sermon on the Mount that it was what we as Christians were called to be like.
tulc(having a great day today!)

 

[immortalavefenix]

It means I have no interest in being a hatefull warmongering racist xenophobic facist inhuman cruel sadistic possesive sexist fanatic.

 

[tulc]

It means I have no interest in being a hatefull warmongering racist xenophobic facist inhuman cruel sadistic possesive sexist fanatic.

Well good! Because no one would want that!
tulc(who oddly enough has been called all those things at one time or another on CF!)

 

[Rev. Smith]

NO, OF COURSE YOU WILL NEVER SHOW THAT, BECAUSE THERE IS "NO" VERSE!!!

There was a verse, "turn the other cheek"

to which you replied, that was not meant for us (somthing about a "church age")

I asked you to demonstrate your contention.

You replied that you would if I showed you why I thought it applied. You demanded a verse - but this whole talk of "ages" of yours isn't in the scriptures at all, Jesus did not sort His teachings into groups that would apply at different times.

So lets see if we agree on anything.... (these are true false questions)

• 1. Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of the Living God
  2. All of His teachings reflect the Will of God, since they are from God.
  3. A person who lives in complete accord with the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth is living a life pleasing to God.
  4. This includes turning the other cheek when affronted, since Jesus taught us to do this.

Can you answer true to all of these questions?
If not, why not?

 

[linssue55]

I think where I'm having the problem is why don't you quote the whole Scripture? You seem to have taken half of a scripture "It has been said..." and then ignored the rest of what He said "but I say...". Could you explain which scriptures are for us today, and which don't apply to us? and how you picked them? I'm a fairly simple guy and I've always assumed when reading the Sermon on the Mount that it was what we as Christians were called to be like.
tulc(having a great day today!)

God's justice is for ALL dispensations, except eternity because we will no longer have the old sin nature, as long as ma, murders, and rapes, and terroises etc... it is an eye for an eye, and if you people cannot see that, then I feel sorry for you all. The Lord is a great warrior.....85,000 Assyrians, in the book of Rev...."The blood will run bridle deep to a horse for 800 miles, from all the enemies of HIM" King of the East....... Christains need to wake up. This discussion is over.....for I am talking to walls. The Lord will show you Himself, and rebuke you all for NOT following His mandates.

 

[linssue55]

There was a verse, "turn the other cheek"

to which you replied, that was not meant for us (somthing about a "church age")

I asked you to demonstrate your contention.

You replied that you would if I showed you why I thought it applied. You demanded a verse - but this whole talk of "ages" of yours isn't in the scriptures at all, Jesus did not sort His teachings into groups that would apply at different times.

So lets see if we agree on anything.... (these are true false questions)

• 1. Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of the Living God
  2. All of His teachings reflect the Will of God, since they are from God.
  3. A person who lives in complete accord with the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth is living a life pleasing to God.
  4. This includes turning the other cheek when affronted, since Jesus taught us to do this.

Can you answer true to all of these questions?

If not, why not?

Like I said in three posts prior....you answer my question first???? BUMP!

 

[firestar]

I'm not in favour of the death penalty because in a lot of cases there is room for human error. It is a mistake that cannot be rectified if you kill the wrong person for the wrong crime. No amount of apologies can make up for that and it *has* been known to happen. A jury of 12 people should not have the power of life and death in their hands. That is reserved for God alone. As to using the Old Testament as backup for this, there are a lot of things that is there that we no longer use by todays standards. I don't see why this one thing should be championed as "biblical therefore right" when there is so much more that we brush away as being not culturally relevant etc...

 

[Rev. Smith]

Like I said in three posts prior....you answer my question first???? BUMP!

I've answered you three times.

There is no verse that says that any of Jesus' teaching are for some seperate time, because that isn't true. Jesus was the living God on earth, Incarnate. All of his teachings were for all men, for all time.

Why do you think this isn't so?

 

[tulc]

The Lord will show you Himself, and rebuke you all for NOT following His mandates.

But see, there's the problem! We think all of the things Jesus said are for us, you seem to think some are for us, some are for another time. My question was: (and still is ) how do you decide which things Jesus said are for now and which are for another time? For example:

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

If we try and understand this Scripture the same way you did the other one then it would be:

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

and that's it. the rest of it

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

would be for the millenium. The problem with that is: Who's going to be our enemy during the triumphant reign of Christ? Who is going to curse us? who will hate us? How are they going to despitefully use and persecute us? If this one is for now how do you decide between them? To me it would seem more like "this is how it was, but this is how I want it to be now!" would be the simpler way of looking at those scriptures, that they are indeed for us now. Just a thought!
tulc(a sermon on the mount fan, from when he was a little baby Christian!)

 

[enelya_taralom]

As to using the Old Testament as backup for this, there are a lot of things that is there that we no longer use by todays standards. I don't see why this one thing should be championed as "biblical therefore right" when there is so much more that we brush away as being not culturally relevant etc...

Because not all Old Testament Law were designed for all people. I don't know too much about this, but from what I have come to understand, some (if not all) of the laws of the OT fall under one of two "sub laws" Noahic Law or Mosaic Law.


Noahic Law refers to the covenant God made with Noah on Mount Arartic immediately after the flood (see Genesis 9:9, 10), which as described by another CF poster, Simionline, is "binding on all humans who are not living according to the higher Law of Christ [the New Covenant]. Thus, this Law is still in force for all unbelievers."


Mosaic Law, again as described at http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=880, "was designed to maintain a proper relationship between God and His people Israel (blessing versus cursing), but only until the coming of Messiah and the establishment of a New Covenant. The Law was never designed to be a permanent rule of life. It was merely a tutor or guardian to guide Israel in all areas of her life until Christ (2 Cor. 3:7, 11; Gal. 3:23-24; Rom. 10:4)."


As such, there still are some OT laws that directly apply to all people today while some don't.


If we were to look at some of the other OT verses besides Gen 9:6 that deal with execution for capital crimes such as adultery (Leviticus 20:10), homosexual behavior (Leviticus 20:13), kidnapping (Exodus 21:16), loving anything more than God (Leviticusé20: 2), occult practices (Exodus 22:18), pre-marital sex (Leviticus 21:9), not observing the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36), and striking or slandering a parent (Exodus 21:15, 17) we have to keep in mind that, as Simionline said, these "were part of the corpus of Law exclusively for the ancient theocracy of Israel who were being held to a far higher standard (because of the covenantal nature of their relationship with God) than the rest of human societies who were bound solely by the Noahic Law (and their own consciences). Therefore, it would be wrong to impose upon unbelievers theocratic laws that only true believers could (by faith, not legalism) keep."


Gen 9:6, "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God created man", however, was part of the Noahic Law, which still applies today to "those not living under the higher Law of Christ" and as such, "capital punishment in the Bible derives its legitimacy from this" - Highlight: "Reverence for Life", NIV Student Bible


Now in regard to those of us living under the New Covenant, we can look at the Beatitudes (Matthew 5), in which it is stated, "You have heard it said, 'Eye for an eye, and tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you..." (Matthew 5:38) and argue that capital punishment no longer has its place in society. However, we also need to look at Matthew 5:17 -18 "Do not think I have come to abolish the law... I tell you the truth, not until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen will by any means disappear from the Law..." Therefore, as stated in the NIV Student Bible Highlight: "Jesus and Moses' Law”:"Jesus revealed the true intent of the Old Testament Law, rather than its legalistic interpretations" which, he through his death, as stated by Simionline, "came to be the 'goal' or 'object' [‘telos’] of the Law (all Law, including Noahic and Mosaic Law), the one towards which the whole Law points or is working, and not it's 'end' (as in 'abolition' or 'obsolescence') as is usually (mis) translated and understood (Matt.5:17-20)."


Therefore, in respect to "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, but I tell you..." it's not a change in the law, but a revealing of the spirit behind it. As Simionline puts it, "meaningif you must have retribution, which is your right under the Law, then you may not have retribution that is greater than the original offence...'only an eye for an eye, not a life for an eye, only a tooth for a tooth, not a life for a tooth' (further evidence of God's mercy and justice, even for the criminal)], but I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also [In other words, now that you're under the New Covenant, you should no longer be interested in exacting retribution, such an attitude is only for those who are hard of heart."


So, OT verses such as Gen 9:6 are still valid verses to "be championed as 'biblical therefore right'."


Hope that makes sense! I'm still just learning about all this



God Bless

 

[Nashboo]

everyone in my family believes in capital punishment except for me

if we were to take an eye for an eye everyone would be blind..
all sins are the same, we as people are the ones who judge which are worse than the others...in God's eyes, they are equal.

ye who hath not sinned cast the first stone

 

[armyman_83]

"He that shedeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed."

I am for killing murderers as well as rapists. But hey, thats just me.

 

[tulc]

[pong] Welcome to CF Nashboo! [/pong]

tulc(hope you are blessed here!)

 

[royscarbrough]

Why?

you must think GOD is barbaric he is the one that instuted it.jesus did not chang one jot or tittle of the law

 

[royscarbrough]

deu. ch:19-11 the law

 

[Rev. Smith]

"He that shedeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed."

I am for killing murderers as well as rapists. But hey, thats just me.

Who shall we have kill the executioneer,k since he also has shedeth man's blood?