Death Penalty...right or wrong?

[Rev. Smith]

It does NOT matter what we sinners think, it is ONLY important what the word of GOD say's....like it or not....GOD IS PERFECT........

Actually it matters a great deal what sinners think. We have all sinned, and most will sin again. God knows this about us, he made us, yet he gave us minds that seek, yearn and think - reason.

As the Old testament Book of Sirach (Wisdom of...) points out; he placed before us fire and water, light and dark that each might choose. We are here to choose, to serve, to believe.

Besides which, you may not have noticed this but even amongst the "bible only" churches there is little agreement on what it says (hence the profusion of translations), or means (hence the profusion of denominations). Add in folks like me and my church who adhear to Scripture, Tradition AND reason and even more discussion and discernment is required.

I'm glad it so easy for you, the rest of us are faced with the difficult task of using our hearts, minds and souls to properly know His will and thus be guided to right action.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

I've always believed that the death penalty was ok because the government has been placed in authority by God to punish those who disobey the law...but I've heard many Christians saying it is wrong because everyone is God's creation and no one has the right to kill anyone no matter what. What are your thoughts on Romans 13:1-7? Does that passage justify the death penalty? I'd like to hear people's thoughts. Thanks!

~Erica~

If you can believe it, I am "on the fence" in regards to this issue. On the one hand, I agree with the idea that those who unlawfully deprive a person of his life should lose their own. Yet, I do believe that capital punishment can also lead to innocent individuals getting killed.

 

[ischus]

I agree with both points of view...to be honest...I'm confused about it all...it seems so wrong to take someone's life, but at the same time I think God gave authority to the government to do so when it is necessary. Does anyone have any Scripture they could use to back up their views (esp. the view that it is ok)

Hi. Here are a few verses which present the idea that the Death Penalty is authorized in certain situations.

I Pet.2:13-14

Peter talks about how Christians are to submit to government authority--those who give praise to the obedient and pass judgment on the evildoers. So, in essense, God authroizes a government that punishes evil.


Acts 25:11

Paul seems to think here that there are crimes that are punishable by death, and he says that he will accept the death penalty if he did something to deserve it. He, of course, knows that he did nothing to deserve death.


Rom.13:1-4

Paul says that every person ought to be subject to the government. He goes on to say rather clearly that: 1)God gives authority to the gov't; 2) opposing gov't is the same as opposing God; 3) The gov't is like a minister (NASB) which God has placed over us; 4) the gov't has the right to bear the sword (death penalty) to avenge evil. After this, Paul then encourages obedience, submission, and love, rather than resistance, disobedience, and evil.


I think that God's view is pretty clear in the OT. I just wanted to point out one verse though: Num.35:30. Here it suggests that there must be overwhelming evidence given by witnesses before someone is condemned to death. Even one witness is not acceptable; there must be multiple witnesses who can declare under oath that the person is guilty. It was a big deal and there was no room for false accusations or one person trying to get back at someone in court.

Also, Num.35 makes the distinction between murder (punishable by death) and manslaughter (not punishable by death).

[I don't pretend to say that the Bible is totally clear on the issue, but I would think that these verses at least support the idea that the death penalty is not wrong in certain situations]

 

[Rev. Smith]

Hi. Here are a few verses which present the idea that the Death Penalty is authorized in certain situations.

I Pet.2:13-14

Peter talks about how Christians are to submit to government authority--those who give praise to the obedient and pass judgment on the evildoers. So, in essense, God authroizes a government that punishes evil.


Acts 25:11

Paul seems to think here that there are crimes that are punishable by death, and he says that he will accept the death penalty if he did something to deserve it. He, of course, knows that he did nothing to deserve death.


Rom.13:1-4

Paul says that every person ought to be subject to the government. He goes on to say rather clearly that: 1)God gives authority to the gov't; 2) opposing gov't is the same as opposing God; 3) The gov't is like a minister (NASB) which God has placed over us; 4) the gov't has the right to bear the sword (death penalty) to avenge evil. After this, Paul then encourages obedience, submission, and love, rather than resistance, disobedience, and evil.


I think that God's view is pretty clear in the OT. I just wanted to point out one verse though: Num.35:30. Here it suggests that there must be overwhelming evidence given by witnesses before someone is condemned to death. Even one witness is not acceptable; there must be multiple witnesses who can declare under oath that the person is guilty. It was a big deal and there was no room for false accusations or one person trying to get back at someone in court.

Also, Num.35 makes the distinction between murder (punishable by death) and manslaughter (not punishable by death).

[I don't pretend to say that the Bible is totally clear on the issue, but I would think that these verses at least support the idea that the death penalty is not wrong in certain situations]

Turn the other cheek
Forgive 7 times 70 times (he did not then decalare that you can bust a cap in his as on time 471)

Thou shall not bear false witness made the Commandments, but thou shalt not show mercy did not.

"I want mercy, not sacrafice" God, sometime around 1200 b.c.

Yes, the Apostles admonish us to obey government (when government does not demand that we breach piety) but none of these versus command or require that we kill people (against which there is a commandment). Paul's being ready to die is laudable, but would not have made killing him right.

This topic has been debated here on CF many times. Not once has a pro death penalty advocate ever given me a credable argument as to why it should be allowed in the face of the credable evidence that we have convicted and sentanced to death at least 118 men. Both Centurian Ministries and the Innocence Project assert that it is sattisticaly certain that we have executed between 5 - 10 innocent men in the past decade alone.

This is right how?

 

[Rusticus]

Isnt texas the place where they like always have the death penalty

Just because I think that they are not civilised does not mean that I hate them.

 

[linssue55]

Actually it matters a great deal what sinners think. We have all sinned, and most will sin again. God knows this about us, he made us, yet he gave us minds that seek, yearn and think - reason.

As the Old testament Book of Sirach (Wisdom of...) points out; he placed before us fire and water, light and dark that each might choose. We are here to choose, to serve, to believe.

Besides which, you may not have noticed this but even amongst the "bible only" churches there is little agreement on what it says (hence the profusion of translations), or means (hence the profusion of denominations). Add in folks like me and my church who adhear to Scripture, Tradition AND reason and even more discussion and discernment is required.

I'm glad it so easy for you, the rest of us are faced with the difficult task of using our hearts, minds and souls to properly know His will and thus be guided to right action.

You have missed the entire point. YOU may think that it is important what YOU think, yes, BUT NOT when it conflicts with the word of God........

romans 2:11
"For there is no respect of persons with God."

NOTHING....LET ME REPEAT, NOTHING is more important that what God say's.

We christians now-a-days take way too much PRIDE in what we think. We are to follow the MANDATES of the Lord..... like it or not.....THAT is what true christians do.

HE is our GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, THE LORD OF LORD, AND KING OF KINGS. So we christians need to get off of this SELF PRAISE peddestel that we put our selves on, and start to become what HE WANTS us to become. This self praise, holier than thou attitude we christians have, is BECOMING our downfall.

HE IS MY "AUTHORITY", NOT MAN!!!......NOT my own personal oppinion, NOT what I feel, NOT what I experience, AND certainly NOT the way I was brought up to belive IF it DOES NOT meet with the LORD'S mandates. ONLY HE can make me a new person, and I am sure NOT going to get in HIS WAY.

You either BELIEVE ALLLLLLL the word of God, OR NONE of it, for there is NO in between with the LORD.

SO when the Lord say's......"an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"...."HE MEANS IT". .....PERIOD!!!

 

[linssue55]

Turn the other cheek
Forgive 7 times 70 times (he did not then decalare that you can bust a cap in his as on time 471)

Thou shall not bear false witness made the Commandments, but thou shalt not show mercy did not.

"I want mercy, not sacrafice" God, sometime around 1200 b.c.

Yes, the Apostles admonish us to obey government (when government does not demand that we breach piety) but none of these versus command or require that we kill people (against which there is a commandment). Paul's being ready to die is laudable, but would not have made killing him right.

This topic has been debated here on CF many times. Not once has a pro death penalty advocate ever given me a credable argument as to why it should be allowed in the face of the credable evidence that we have convicted and sentanced to death at least 118 men. Both Centurian Ministries and the Innocence Project assert that it is sattisticaly certain that we have executed between 5 - 10 innocent men in the past decade alone.

This is right how?

"Turn the other cheek is for the Millenium"....NOT the church age....your in the wrong dispensation.

 

[Rev. Smith]

"Turn the other cheek is for the Millenium"....NOT the church age....your in the wrong dispensation.

I'll stop using reason, wisdom or the teachings of Jesus in your presence.

 

[Rev. Smith]

We christians now-a-days take way too much PRIDE in what we think. We are to follow the MANDATES of the Lord..... like it or not.....THAT is what true christians do.

True Christians follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth; everything else is commentary.

Love God with all your heart and all your soul, love your neighbor as you love yourself, keep the commandments and you will have life.

These are he mandates of the Incarnation of God on earth, Jesus of Nazareth

 

[jasperbound]

Yet, I do believe that capital punishment can also lead to innocent individuals getting killed.

I'm sure they do, and it's terrible. However, I'm also positive that people are wrongly incarcerated, and that's just as terrible. Sure, if they're in prison for twenty years, and they are found to be innocent, they'll be released, but will that make up for losing two decades of one's life? Will a simple "My bad!" by the government give him back that lost time? I think not!
Therefore, the problem is not with the punishment. It is with everything leading up to the punishment.

 

[tulc]

It does NOT matter what we sinners think, it is ONLY important what the word of GOD say's....like it or not....GOD IS PERFECT........

Matt 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Wow. Shouldn't you finish that scripture?

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Remember it wasn't originally split, that was added later.

40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect

Jesus isn't really the one to try and get support for the death penalty. My advice? Stick to the Old Testament.
tulc(finishing up the last cup for the day!)

 

[EbonNelumbo]

wrong...

 

[tulc]

"Turn the other cheek is for the Millenium"....NOT the church age....your in the wrong dispensation.

Uhmm where does it say that?
tulc(just wondering)

 

[jasperbound]

I agree with both points of view...to be honest...I'm confused about it all...it seems so wrong to take someone's life, but at the same time I think God gave authority to the government to do so when it is necessary. Does anyone have any Scripture they could use to back up their views (esp. the view that it is ok)

Well, Peter did sentence a couple to death once for lying to God.

[bible]Acts 5:1-11[/bible]

Let's also not forget that God even had Israel execute people for certain violations of the Law.

However, I do think it's a gray area. Whether one supports it or not is all right!

 

[EbonNelumbo]

Death is a matter which should only be handled by God Himself. We, including suicide and assisted, and murder are both sins...the DP is simply a form of legalized murder, which is wrong unto itself. If someone is bad enough to earn DP then stick them in solitary until they die.

 

[jasperbound]

Jesus isn't really the one to try and get support for the death penalty. My advice?Stick to the Old Testament.
tulc(finishing up the last cup for the day!)

Why is that? Didn't Jesus follow (and even support) the Law of the OT?

I'm not a Gnostic, so I don't see the OT and the NT involving two different gods. I see them both as involving one constant god.

 

[tulc]

I'm not a Gnostic, so I don't see the OT and the NT involving two different gods. I see them both as involving one constant god.

LOL! Well I'm not a gnostic either so I'm not sure why you brought that up. I don't see two different Gods, I do see God as interacting with the world different in the New Testament then He did in the Old.
tulc(not smart enough to be gnostic!)

 

[linssue55]

Uhmm where does it say that?
tulc(just wondering)

Where does it say it's for the church age?..........

 

[lismore]

I've always believed that the death penalty was ok because the government has been placed in authority by God to punish those who disobey the law...but I've heard many Christians saying it is wrong because everyone is God's creation and no one has the right to kill anyone no matter what. What are your thoughts on Romans 13:1-7? Does that passage justify the death penalty? I'd like to hear people's thoughts. Thanks!

~Erica~

Hi

Yes we have to obey the government as long as it doesnt compromise our faith, but it already has so

We scrapped the death penalty here after about 10 innocent people were hanged by corrupt courts.

Only the Lord can judge objectively.

Lismore

 

[Rusticus]

If we say there might be a Biblical foundation or justification for the death penalty, we must remember that, whilst this may be so, there is no scriptural mentioning of execution by electic chair or lethal injection.
To be biblical it needs to be by stoning.

Just imagine: one could sell tickets on e-bay to those who want to do the stoning (say about 50 people). Then, there could be tickets sold to those in a live audience. And then, think about the TV rights. There could be a whole new industry started by reviving the biblical tradition of stoning people to death.