Death before the Fall

[theFijian]

Does this include cellular death? Or just human and animal death? What about plants?

 

[pgp_protector]

Does this include cellular death? Or just human and animal death? What about plants?

Are we talking a Literal interpretation of Genesis ?

 

[LittleNipper]

Does this include cellular death? Or just human and animal death? What about plants?

There does appear to be a biblical distinction between Man, animals, and plants. Plants are living but have no soul. Animals have a soul but no spirit. Humans hava a body, soul and spirit. They are triune as is GOD. When Adam or an animal ate fruit, it is most likely that everything benifited ---- the plant, the animal/human, and the environment. Everything was in perfect concert. When a caterpillar becomes a butterfly, is the caterpillar dead or has it merely metamorphized? The very same was likely true of plants before the FALL. The process of being eaten or walked on was simply a metamorphic process very "natural" to that perfect environment. Anyway, that is how GOD seems to have given me the understanding.....

 

[Mallon]

Does this include cellular death?

I should hope so. Otherwise, we wouldn't have fingers!

 

[MrSnow]

There was a similar thread several months ago to which I responded. I'll give a similar response here.

Did Adam and Eve have an epidermis? If so, what happened if friction from a garden tool caused some of it to flake off? Would more develop? If so, from what? How?

Were Adam and Eve equipped with white blood cells? If not, why do we have them now? If so, for what reason? If they had to be used, what happened to those white blood cells?

Are plants alive? Did Adam and Eve consume plants in order to stay alive? What happened to those plants? Were they alive after being plucked from their source? Were they alive after being consumed?

Basically, in order for there to be animal life, there must be death. If there was not death before sin, then after we sinned God would have had to have completely redone life and the workings of almost every biological function on this planet. Every animal's workings would have to have been completely altered. The very nature of plant life would have had to have been radically changed.

 

[busterdog]

Does this include cellular death? Or just human and animal death? What about plants?

just this:

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[LittleNipper]

There was a similar thread several months ago to which I responded. I'll give a similar response here.

Did Adam and Eve have an epidermis? If so, what happened if friction from a garden tool caused some of it to flake off? Would more develop? If so, from what? How?

Were Adam and Eve equipped with white blood cells? If not, why do we have them now? If so, for what reason? If they had to be used, what happened to those white blood cells?

Are plants alive? Did Adam and Eve consume plants in order to stay alive? What happened to those plants? Were they alive after being plucked from their source? Were they alive after being consumed?

Basically, in order for there to be animal life, there must be death. If there was not death before sin, then after we sinned God would have had to have completely redone life and the workings of almost every biological function on this planet. Every animal's workings would have to have been completely altered. The very nature of plant life would have had to have been radically changed.

Well, Adam and Eve suddenly knew they were naked. They hid from GOD. Obviously, there was a change taking place. By death, I would say that Man and Animals themselves never would have died. They would have eaten seeds, grasses, nuts, and fruit and been content forever. God also saw death as separation from HIM. And we are told that Adam and Eve hid themselves.

 

[juvenissun]

Does this include cellular death? Or just human and animal death? What about plants?

In Buddhism, people should not kill. This includes the killing of animal, but not include plant. The reason is that animal has "feeling" but plant has not. People are possible to reincarnate to animal, but not to plant. This is very similar to the teaching of having or having no "soul".

If you ask the same question to vegetarians, you will get the same answer. And that IS the answer.

Think it the other way, if we do not eat life, then what could we eat? Clays? How about all lives eat clays. I think that would be a good alternative. Why didn't God think about that possibility?

Let's go further, why should a life eat (so have a digestive system) at all? Why can't we just absorb elements from the environment, like most plants? or even like crystals?

 

[Assyrian]

There does appear to be a biblical distinction between Man, animals, and plants. Plants are living but have no soul. Animals have a soul but no spirit. Humans hava a body, soul and spirit. They are triune as is GOD.

Ecc 3:21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

 

[ClearSky]

Does this include cellular death? Or just human and animal death? What about plants?

Some Creationists think there were no death before the fall. But this is contradictory to Scripture.

The reason why some people think there were no death before the fall is that God called His creation "very good". Death is assumed to be somehow bad, so they think there was no death in a "very good" creation.

However, Scripture clearly tells us about the world of creation, and that was a world containing death. Otherwise, what about all the bacteria that live in our bodies? What would happen if Adam steps on an ant? What if a squirrel falls from a tree? Is the death of bacteria, insects, squirrels no "real death", and if so where is the boundary?

In a world without death there can't be any animals and nothing else that could cause accidental death, such as rivers, trees, mountains and so on. There you see that the "no death" idea is obviously in contradiction to Scripture that describes Eden as a world just like ours, and Adam not as an immortal superman but as a human like us.

 

[cleminson]

I believe that death entered our Earth at the conception of life. Our Earth was Created Billions of years ago and God's command to it was to produce life. Our Universe was created from a substance "matter" that mystically had by product from Satans prison, "mayim" (a type of byproduct water) and from this chaos God commanded our world into existence. Eden is still perfect But our Universe was created from fallen material and is still fallen. However Eden as a spiritual place had no death until Adam sinned and then God took their spiritually dead to Eden bodies and allowed them to live on our Earth. Until 930 years after arriving on this Earth, Adam died like we do.

 

[headhoncho]

Does this include cellular death? Or just human and animal death? What about plants?

Adam was spiritually dead to Genesis 2:17, which have caused His
physical death.
What do plants and animals have to do with being dead into the Lord ?
Plants and animals do not have The Logos for their life, John 1:4
In eternity, plants and animals will continue to have death.
Which makes The lake of fire eternal physical dimension.

 

[theFijian]

Are we talking a Literal interpretation of Genesis ?

I'm interested in all points of view

 

[theFijian]

just this:

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Wrong thread. I think you were looking for the eschatology or soteriology forum.

 

[headhoncho]

I believe that death entered our Earth at the conception of life. Our Earth was Created Billions of years ago and God's command to it was to produce life. Our Universe was created from a substance "matter" that mystically had by product from Satans prison, "mayim" (a type of byproduct water) and from this chaos God commanded our world into existence. Eden is still perfect But our Universe was created from fallen material and is still fallen. However Eden as a spiritual place had no death until Adam sinned and then God took their spiritually dead to Eden bodies and allowed them to live on our Earth. Until 930 years after arriving on this Earth, Adam died like we do.

The only Law in Kingdom of God, there is, is Causality.
God is cause of everything, and The Lord/Life is ever existing.
Before the Lord have created Man in His likeness and image, He have created death, John 1:1-5, you see, Christ is judgment,
John 9:39, because Salvation have already existed in the Lord,
Isaiah 43:11
Darkness/Death, existed before Light, Genesis 1:2-3
Adam was Christless/Truthless, and The Saved are also loosing
Christ, to New Heaven, Isaiah 65:17 1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Just as Adam have lived 930 years without the truth, the unsaved
will live millennium/1000years/one day, without the truth, before
their "second resurrection" and "second death", Revelation 20:11-15
The Effect of Genesis 3:6-7 was needed, for directly opposite effect of Matthew 24:40-41
The Creation is full circle, that ends without ever coming back to mind.

 

[headhoncho]

I'm interested in all points of view

But, do you have ability to understand , what interests you ?
I can" break my leg ", if you are within Isaiah 6:9-10

 

[theFijian]

But, do you have ability to understand , what interests you ?
I can" break my leg ", if you are within Isaiah 6:9-10

Why respond if you have nothing to contribute apart from casting aspersions on you brethren and odd postings about Adam being without Christ or truth? (bd - you see where dispensationalism gets you?)

 

[headhoncho]

Why respond if you have nothing to contribute apart from casting aspersions on you brethren and odd postings about Adam being without Christ or truth? (bd - you see where dispensationalism gets you?)

I have responded to your OP question, and as any other response, my also needs understanding. And as I only quoted Isaiah 6:9-10
if someone doesn't understands the truth, by God's will, the truth will
not be understood.
Christ is the truth, the way and the life, John 14:6
If Adam knew the truth, the way God told Him, Genesis 2:17, He would chose the life, but, God's will was for them to procreate, which requires death first.
What's "odd" about my postings ? Every explanation of mine, is based upon Biblical verses, and translated into plain language.

love

Pete from Jewpiter

 

[cleminson]

The only Law in Kingdom of God, there is, is Causality.
God is cause of everything, and The Lord/Life is ever existing.
Before the Lord have created Man in His likeness and image, He have created death, John 1:1-5, you see, Christ is judgment,
John 9:39, because Salvation have already existed in the Lord,
Isaiah 43:11
Darkness/Death, existed before Light, Genesis 1:2-3
Adam was Christless/Truthless, and The Saved are also loosing
Christ, to New Heaven, Isaiah 65:17 1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Just as Adam have lived 930 years without the truth, the unsaved
will live millennium/1000years/one day, without the truth, before
their "second resurrection" and "second death", Revelation 20:11-15
The Effect of Genesis 3:6-7 was needed, for directly opposite effect of Matthew 24:40-41
The Creation is full circle, that ends without ever coming back to mind.

Hi there Headhoncho. I am really sorry but I have tried to understand your reply to my contribution to this thread but I cannot. Could you try again. I am sorry if this is your level of English, if it is I will try to understand where you are coming from again.

 

[theFijian]

I have responded to your OP question, and as any other response, my also needs understanding. And as I only quoted Isaiah 6:9-10
if someone doesn't understands the truth, by God's will, the truth will
not be understood.
Christ is the truth, the way and the life, John 14:6
If Adam knew the truth, the way God told Him, Genesis 2:17, He would chose the life, but, God's will was for them to procreate, which requires death first.
What's "odd" about my postings ? Every explanation of mine, is based upon Biblical verses, and translated into plain language.

love

Pete from Jewpiter

I'm perfectly capable of understanding something, it's helpful if it actually makes sense though. You seem to think that for Adam and Eve to be "fruitful and multiply" they had to be sinful? Now that is odd and utterly unbiblical!