Death-bed proselytizing

[cloudyday2]

How do you guys feel about proselytizing people who are facing death?

I suppose your answer might depend on the immediacy of death:
(1A) Close family member or friend facing death in weeks or months
(1B) Stranger or acquaintance facing death in weeks or months
(2A) Close family member or friend facing death in days or hours
(2B) Stranger or acquaintance facing death in days or hours

Also the answer might depend on your job:
(X) Pastor or priest called-in by family members
(Y) Emergency or health worker
(Z) Off the clock

And finally, the answer might depend on your understanding of salvation.

 

[seashale76]

How do you guys feel about proselytizing people who are facing death?

I suppose your answer might depend on the immediacy of death:
(1A) Close family member or friend facing death in weeks or months
(1B) Stranger or acquaintance facing death in weeks or months
(2A) Close family member or friend facing death in days or hours
(2B) Stranger or acquaintance facing death in days or hours

Also the answer might depend on your job:
(X) Pastor or priest called-in by family members
(Y) Emergency or health worker
(Z) Off the clock

And finally, the answer might depend on your understanding of salvation.

I'm attempting to transition from being a teacher to being a nurse- so major career change and I'm back in school. They've been pretty clear that death-bed proselytizing on the part of nurses toward patients isn't allowed. The patient always gets to decide. During the admissions process patients are generally asked about their spiritual needs and religious needs. That is documented- and any specific spiritual/religious needs the patient has is deferred to the preferred clergy or person of their choice.

However, some patients seem to look for ways to get people in trouble. I know someone that got written up at work (she is a nurse in a Baptist hospital). The patient specifically asked her to pray for him and she did. Then he complained to her supervisor after the fact. She should have asked the patient if he wanted her to contact the chaplain for him instead.

Hospitals that are affiliated with Catholics, Baptists, Judaism, et cetera generally have chaplains that will come by and ask patients if they need/want their services. Again, it is always patient (or the patient's designated guardians') choice. That's a good thing- because often- extremely elderly people perhaps may have not been able to go to services in their faith for many months or years due to health concerns- so hospitals should provide for their needs in this area if they want it. I have to say, if I was on my death bed and also had dementia or something, the pre-dementia me would want an Orthodox priest to administer unction and communion.

I think to blatantly say it is right or wrong in every instance would not be correct. Every person and situation is different.

 

[Hospes]

How do you guys feel about proselytizing people who are facing death?

I suppose your answer might depend on the immediacy of death:
(1A) Close family member or friend facing death in weeks or months
(1B) Stranger or acquaintance facing death in weeks or months
(2A) Close family member or friend facing death in days or hours
(2B) Stranger or acquaintance facing death in days or hours

Also the answer might depend on your job:
(X) Pastor or priest called-in by family members
(Y) Emergency or health worker
(Z) Off the clock

And finally, the answer might depend on your understanding of salvation.

If you truly believe a person is to soon meet God and give an account for themselves, wouldn't it be an act of cruelty to not try to help them prepare for the meeting? What other choices are there for a person who truly believes?

Also, there is an interesting parable Jesus taught regarding those who are called by God at the last moment receiving equal reward.

 

[Sketcher]

Definitely, do it. How you go about it will obviously be different if it's family, since in my case the person would have grown up with some form of Christianity, so if they needed it, I'd know that I have obstacles to navigate around.

 

[cloudyday2]

I'm attempting to transition from being a teacher to being a nurse- so major career change and I'm back in school. They've been pretty clear that death-bed proselytizing on the part of nurses toward patients isn't allowed. The patient always gets to decide. During the admissions process patients are generally asked about their spiritual needs and religious needs. That is documented- and any specific spiritual/religious needs the patient has is deferred to the preferred clergy or person of their choice.

However, some patients seem to look for ways to get people in trouble. I know someone that got written up at work (she is a nurse in a Baptist hospital). The patient specifically asked her to pray for him and she did. Then he complained to her supervisor after the fact. She should have asked the patient if he wanted her to contact the chaplain for him instead.

Hospitals that are affiliated with Catholics, Baptists, Judaism, et cetera generally have chaplains that will come by and ask patients if they need/want their services. Again, it is always patient (or the patient's designated guardians') choice. That's a good thing- because often- extremely elderly people perhaps may have not been able to go to services in their faith for many months or years due to health concerns- so hospitals should provide for their needs in this area if they want it. I have to say, if I was on my death bed and also had dementia or something, the pre-dementia me would want an Orthodox priest to administer unction and communion.

I think to blatantly say it is right or wrong in every instance would not be correct. Every person and situation is different.

Thanks, that is interesting to know the issues facing health workers. It would be tricky if your patient wanted you to pray with him/her. I suppose you would need to say, "let me get the chaplain and we can all pray together". Or maybe you would have to say, "sorry, I can't pray with you, but let me get the chaplain". Of course the patient might have established a relationship with you and not want to pray with a stranger.

It's tricky I bet.

Another issue is whether you should give emergency aid when off the clock. Apparently many insurance policies don't cover the liability.

 

[cloudyday2]

If you truly believe a person is to soon meet God and give an account for themselves, wouldn't it be an act of cruelty to not try to help them prepare for the meeting? What other choices are there for a person who truly believes?

Also, there is an interesting parable Jesus taught regarding those who are called by God at the last moment receiving equal reward.

Definitely, do it. How you go about it will obviously be different if it's family, since in my case the person would have grown up with some form of Christianity, so if they needed it, I'd know that I have obstacles to navigate around.

Thanks. I understand your reasoning, but personally I would be a little disgusted if my family members called in our priest to give me communion when I am dying. I probably wouldn't be very nice to the priest - especially if I was in pain.

 

[South Bound]

How do you guys feel about proselytizing people who are facing death?

I'm for any Biblically based evangelism of the lost. If someone is on their death bed, then wouldn't that make it all the more imperative that they hear the Gospel?

 

[cloudyday2]

I'm for any Biblically based evangelism of the lost. If someone is on their death bed, then wouldn't that make it all the more imperative that they hear the Gospel?

Isn't it a safe assumption that most people have already heard some version of the gospel? I know it would make me disgusted if somebody tried to peddle the gospel to me one more time while I'm trapped in a hospital bed about to die. Even if the proselytizer was a close family member, I might lose my temper.

On the other hand, I might go along with it all just to make that person happy - who knows

 

[South Bound]

Isn't it a safe assumption that most people have already heard some version of the gospel?

No. I grew up in Alabama, the buckle of the Bible Belt, with a church on every corner, and I never heard the Gospel until I was in my early twenties.

I witness to people all the time who insist that they've been Christians for years and don't have the first clue about the Gospel.

And, anyway, regardless of how many times they've heard it, the Gospel is still God's means by which man is saved.

I know it would make me disgusted if somebody tried to peddle the gospel to me one more time while I'm trapped in a hospital bed about to die. Even if the proselytizer was a close family member, I might lose my temper.

I remember I used to mock the guys who stood on the corner and preached at me, too.

On the other hand, I might go along with it all just to make that person happy - who knows

You might. But salvation isn't about "going along with it". I "went along with it" for years and was still as damned as any unregenerate sinner.

 

[Tess]

I'm a bit torn on this...

I am inclined to agree that most people will have an idea of what Christianity is about and if they're still not a Christian then they're obviously not interested. Plus it seems pretty pushy if the person just wants to die in peace.

On the other hand, it's kind of like... you may as well try it?

I'm not too sure really....I think if I was actually in the situation and it was a family member or friend I'd probably give it a go.

 

[cloudyday2]

I'm a bit torn on this...

I am inclined to agree that most people will have an idea of what Christianity is about and if they're still not a Christian then they're obviously not interested. Plus it seems pretty pushy if the person just wants to die in peace.

On the other hand, it's kind of like... you may as well try it?

I'm not too sure really....I think if I was actually in the situation and it was a family member or friend I'd probably give it a go.

Thanks, I understand your reasoning - particularly if you believe it determines the person's eternal fate.

 

[dcalling]

If him/her is someone I know, I will definitely do it, there might be a good chance that he/she can be saved before death.

If it is a stranger, unless he/she expressed strong interest, I won't do it, because they might consider it annoying.

And finally, I think Christianity is the only religion that seems to do what all other people consider a waste of time, trying to save someone who is going to die.

 

[seashale76]

At one point I would have agreed that most people really knew what Christianity was about. However, after having taught for over a decade, I can tell you with certainty that this is NOT the case. Most kids, be they professing atheists/agnostics or Christians have little concept about Christianity, and there is no such thing as common knowledge on this subject anymore. None. Even most professing Christians don't go to church, so their children are certainly not being taught even basic Sunday School knowledge. One of the subjects I taught was World Civilizations, and we covered major world religions. For an awful lot of kids, the first time they had seen the basic overview of Christianity (with an emphasis on history) was in my class.

 

[cloudyday2]

If him/her is someone I know, I will definitely do it, there might be a good chance that he/she can be saved before death.

If it is a stranger, unless he/she expressed strong interest, I won't do it, because they might consider it annoying.

And finally, I think Christianity is the only religion that seems to do what all other people consider a waste of time, trying to save someone who is going to die.

Probably Christianity is the only religion where many believe the goal can be realistically achieved in the short time remaining to a dying person.

Enlightenment for Hindus and Buddhists is probably a life long effort?
Salvation for Muslims is more dependent on a life of Godly behavior?

 

[cloudyday2]

At one point I would have agreed that most people really knew what Christianity was about. However, after having taught for over a decade, I can tell you with certainty that this is NOT the case. Most kids, be they professing atheists/agnostics or Christians have little concept about Christianity, and there is no such thing as common knowledge on this subject anymore. None. Even most professing Christians don't go to church, so their children are certainly not being taught even basic Sunday School knowledge. One of the subjects I taught was World Civilizations, and we covered major world religions. For an awful lot of kids, the first time they had seen the basic overview of Christianity (with an emphasis on history) was in my class.

That's surprising to me.

I'm sure there are many people (including me) who don't know some important details of the history, but hasn't almost everybody heard the thing about Jesus forgiving us of our sins if we ask and so forth? A person doesn't need to know all the details to make an informed decision against being a Christian IMO.

 

[seashale76]

That's surprising to me.

It was to me too.

 

[South Bound]

That's surprising to me.

I'm sure there are many people (including me) who don't know some important details of the history, but hasn't almost everybody heard the thing about Jesus forgiving us of our sins if we ask and so forth? A person doesn't need to know all the details to make an informed decision against being a Christian IMO.

They need to know more than that.

If somebody murdered your loved one and, when he stood before the judge, the judge said, "I forgive you", would you be satisfied with that? Would that be just? Of course it wouldn't! So why would you expect God to forgive sin without punishing it?

 

[cloudyday2]

They need to know more than that.

If somebody murdered your loved one and, when he stood before the judge, the judge said, "I forgive you", would you be satisfied with that? Would that be just? Of course it wouldn't! So why would you expect God to forgive sin without punishing it?

O.k., what is your version of Christian 101?

 

[South Bound]

O.k., what is your version of Christian 101?

Pretty much the same as historic, orthodox Christianity for the last 2,000 years.

 

[cloudyday2]

Pretty much the same as historic, orthodox Christianity for the last 2,000 years.

CF defines Christianity by the Nicene Creed. Let's take that as the gospel.
I suspect most people have heard the beliefs in the Nicene Creed - at least this part - even if not in this exact form:

who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man;
he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead. ;
whose kingdom shall have no end.

Nicene Creed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So most people have heard the gospel IMO.