deadly poison...?

[durangodawood]

I beg to differ lets look at what is actually written. In Verse 15 we have Jesus Speaking to a specific Group of people.

15He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

He said to "them" He didn't say to "all of us," nor was He speaking to those who would come after them.

Yes, Jesus is speaking TO "them". This is perfectly clear.
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So what makes you think that we can receive and give this gift, if those outside of the core 11 apostles could not?

Because here Jesus is speaking ABOUT those who believe, which could include "them" plus you plus every true believer:

"16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned".

Every Christian Ive ever heard says the the above applies generally to ALL believers, and not to any select group. "Whoever believes" means Jesus is speaking in the third person about all true believers generally, including those to come. If he was limiting his comment to those present, he would have used the 2nd person "you". This is not nit-picky. This is plain.

"Whoever believes..." is parallel to "Blessed are...", which are general statements about the human condition, going forward.

So, by the time we get to the signs, there's no question they apply to believers generally. Any limitation of applicability must be added by the reader, as Ive pointed out.

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

 

[drich0150]

Yes, Jesus is speaking TO "them". This is perfectly clear.

Perhaps not if you believe that "them" refers to anyone outside of that room. Look at verse 14 in context with the rest of your passage.


14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

Again, the "Them" used in verse 15 clearly refers to the 11 as they were eating, in verse 14, There was no one else. That is unless you believe that Jesus is also speaking to "ALL Believers" when He rebukes "them/us" for "our/their" lack of faith, and "our/their" stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen Him after he had risen, one sentence or thought before he issued the great commission.

Every Christian Ive ever heard says the the above applies generally to ALL believers, and not to any select group. "Whoever believes" means Jesus is speaking in the third person about all true believers generally, including those to come. If he was limiting his comment to those present, he would have used the 2nd person "you". This is not nit-picky. This is plain.

Evidently not to me, or the writer of verses 9-20, so there are two christians who do not fit your category. Because If it were plain then there would not be a need to describe a room full of disciples eating in chapter 14, nor would it be necessary to describe the Lord only working through His disciples by the signs described in the fore mentioned verses.

20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

Again scripture points only to the disciples in that room being able to bless new converts with these abilities.. No where does it read all who were save were able to convert others, and they too exhibited these signs. The only way i see to get that message from this section of scripture is to ignore verses 14 and 20. Both of these verses makes this ability a personal/intimate gift.

Not to be "Nit-picky" but Mark was written well after these events, and if the Gospel writer wanted to include a snake handling doctrine to all of those who believe, then He would have done so. But as it reads only the original 11 were able to give these gifts on a regular basis. scripture makes no other mention of anyone outside of the 11 being able to give Spiritual gifts like these.

So, by the time we get to the signs, there's no question they apply to believers generally. Any limitation of applicability must be added by the reader, as Ive pointed out.

This line of reasoning only works if you take a sharpie and blot out everything except verses 15-18 of Mark. I suppose there was a reason you only presented verses 15-18, in the OP, perhaps this is why you don't seem to be interested in examining anything else mentioned not pertaining to your doctrinal verses.

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[durangodawood]

14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

Of course an omniscient narrator will refer to the 11 as "them". That sheds no light on Jesus' use of the word later.
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20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

OK... that does tend towards your interpretation.
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So, I presume the 11 were not baptized yet, at that point of vs 16...?
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[drich0150]

That sheds no light on Jesus' use of the word later.

we are not talking about events that happened hours apart, nor an event from a different day, there isn't even a break where Jesus stops and address anyone else out side of the 11. As it reads, it is with nearly with the same breath that he is addressing the same group of men He just rebuked.

Look it is not a sin to want to worship or bring glory to God by picking up snakes or drinking poison. (I personally could think of better way of bringing glory to God) The issue lies in the idea that one would try and make this idea a mandatory part of salvation, or even as test of those who are saved. Primarily because this principle is not scripturally backed requirement or test.

That's not to say in the history of the world after the ministry of the 11 someone some where could, have exhibit one or more of these signs. What I'm getting at is that we can't expect to put God in a box of our own understanding and expect Him to always work a certain way.. This is why we must lean not to our own understanding, but on the word of God. In this case it means we must look past the segmented portions of scripture that make up our various doctrines, and sometimes push past our traditional understandings and look for a more biblically based interpretations that works in concert with other scriptures/verses on the subject.

So, I presume the 11 were not baptized yet, at that point of vs 16...?

If you look outside of Mark in John 3 we find the disciples and Jesus Baptizing people with water. And if we look at Acts 2 we See the baptism of the 11 by the Holy Spirit.

So technically there were "dunked" in water before these events, but did not receive the Spirit till the day of Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus