Deacons

[DeaconDean]

Deacon,a simple question and I value your answer.
On the Topic of Deacons being the husband of one wife,how do you view this?
Does it apply to divorce,or literally only one rather than multiple wives?

In my heart, I believe it means "one wife" (living) at any time.

If your wife dies, are you not free to remarry?

No, it does not apply to divorce. If a deacon gets a divorce, then as per scripture, they are to seek to be reconciled. Or remain unmarried. Scripture is clear, divorce is not the rule, it's the last resort.

As well if a Church had no title of Deacon there,would this by pass the schripture by calling them Elders?

Baptist churches long ago, used to have "elders" and "deacons". It is the duty of the "elders" to see to the care of the church. It has been, and always was the duty of the deacons to take care of the family units.

I really don't see how a church can operate without deacons. If one looks at the qualifications for an elder, not only are they practically the same as a bishop, but they are above that of the deacons.

But it also is a two edged sword. "Elders" not only applies to the leaders just below the bishop, but an "elder" may well be lets say, a "charter member" that was there when the church formed and has been a Christian a substantial amount of time. I.e.: 60. 70, years etc.

When you get into this area, "elders" are the most Spiritually mature members of the church.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[now faith]

Thank you Deacon,I spent a lot of time back and fourth with my Dad on this This Topic.
I was on the other end of what one wife means.
I believed it pertained to multiple wives at the same time,due to polygamy being practiced in the Old Testament.
My Dad gave the same answer you have.

On divorce I can find only one passage in the Gospels prior to our redemption.
In one way I see it proprietary to the Jews,and with condition.

Mark: 10. 2. And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. 3. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? 4. And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. 5. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8. And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

A man or a woman can marry a sinner or harlot out of his or her flesh.
God does not ordain sin,so he has nothing to do with this joining together.
As well Paul said if the unbeliever depart let them we are under no burden to reconcile (paraphrase )
Paul also said be ye not unequally yoked with the ungodly, so if our flesh takes us into a ungodly marriage,or our spouse is a liar about salvation we are justified in divorce.
There are many divorced Preachers who tip toe around this passage in Timothy,as Paul said better to marry than to burn.

God Bless

 

[DeaconDean]

Thank you Deacon,I spent a lot of time back and fourth with my Dad on this This Topic.
I was on the other end of what one wife means.
I believed it pertained to multiple wives at the same time,due to polygamy being practiced in the Old Testament.
My Dad gave the same answer you have.

On divorce I can find only one passage in the Gospels prior to our redemption.
In one way I see it proprietary to the Jews,and with condition.

Mark: 10. 2. And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. 3. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? 4. And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. 5. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8. And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

A man or a woman can marry a sinner or harlot out of his or her flesh.
God does not ordain sin,so he has nothing to do with this joining together.
As well Paul said if the unbeliever depart let them we are under no burden to reconcile (paraphrase )
Paul also said be ye not unequally yoked with the ungodly, so if our flesh takes us into a ungodly marriage,or our spouse is a liar about salvation we are justified in divorce.
There are many divorced Preachers who tip toe around this passage in Timothy,as Paul said better to marry than to burn.

God Bless

It seems, with all due respect to your Father, that we are a vanishing class.

Scriptures in the NT are very clear on matters of divorce. Adultry and Abandonment being those.

God said several times in the OT that even He "divorced" Israel. However, God always reconciled Himself to them.

That is why we must believe that in the case of divorce, reconciliation is always the first course to pursue.

However, there are times, as Paul shows, where that just isn't going to happen.

I know several pastors in my Baptist Association, who are divorced and remarried. (Personally, I believe they are wrong)

As far as what is written in Mark, also know brother, that the scribes and Pharisees had so personally interpreted the "Torah" that man could, not that it was right, but could divorce his wife for example, not making supper to his liking.

That is the reason for Jesus' rebuke. He set the "Torah" straight for them.

People always want to refer to Moses, Solomon, Esau, as the example for polygamy.

While it was not expressly forbidden in the OT, I however could not do it when one looks at the commands in the NT.

I believe Solomon had 300 wives and 700 concubines. Can you imagine the "honeydo" list he had?

God certainly gave him grace.

I believe there is no other option than to take what the qualifications for these offices for what it literally means.

"the husband of one wife" meaning one living wife at a time. Even in divorce, husbands often are embattled in legal battles and fights over custody and so on. It can distract for the job they are called to do.

We must remain true to the scriptures or else whats the use?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[JM]

The church I'm a member of has Elders and Deacons. It's biblical.

 

[Goodbook]

Im just wondering why my baptist church doesnt have deacons. Or whether its just we do but nobody calls them that.

My friend is an elder with three other men. She says they have to go to meetings where they talk about numbers and finances, nothing spiritual at all. Shes not into numbers and finances. She says the meetings are boring.

I would have thought theyd be praying for the church and its members, not discussing numbers. :-(

 

[Goodbook]

Im a bit worried that the church I go to isnt doing things biblically..
And the leaders dont seem to be led by the holy spirit. How can they be if they just discussing numbers?

 

[DeaconDean]

Im just wondering why my baptist church doesnt have deacons. Or whether its just we do but nobody calls them that.

My friend is an elder with three other men. She says they have to go to meetings where they talk about numbers and finances, nothing spiritual at all. Shes not into numbers and finances. She says the meetings are boring.

I would have thought theyd be praying for the church and its members, not discussing numbers. :-(

Im a bit worried that the church I go to isnt doing things biblically..
And the leaders dont seem to be led by the holy spirit. How can they be if they just discussing numbers?

It may be that they don't use the title of "deacon".

While most Baptist churches don't have "elders" in the scriptural sense, deacons now do the job of the presbyters as well as the job called for the deacons.

I know that is what happened in my church.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

My church has only a single pastor and the rest of the "clergy" (associating clergy with Baptists is weird to me) are deacons.

Idk if the bishop and elder were synonymous in the NT and the early church, or if a bishop was an elder with a specific task, or a separate office from the elders.

I just finished reading some sources on ecclesiology and one theory (the guy wasn't making a definitive statement) is that cities has one main congregation and several smaller congregations. Each had its own bishop or overseer with the main congregation's bishop being above the local bishops when it came to the essential matters but local bishops remained responsible for the issues pertaining to their own denominations, and the bishops probably all met in a city-wide synod. So the plurality of elders could have been pastors from a group individual congregations coming together in a synod.

I'm not saying that is how the church should be, just sharing some insight and new perspectives.

 

[Church2u2]

Interesting post.

 

[Goodbook]

I asked why our church doesnt have deacons and one of the ladies in my bible study says we used to but then It got changed to 'ministry model' whatever that is.

It doesnt seem to make much sense to me. Also cant figure out what would be clergy in a baptist church and what would be laymen. Is it just one is paid or pemannent and the other isnt. I dont know.