Daystar television network & biblical Christianity..

[Stefos]

Hi everyone,

I've watching Daystar for some time now to see where it's coming from.

A lot of the stuff preached out of there is solid but I do see the "word of faith" teachings mixed in.

Furthermore, I also see that ALL ministries on Daystar are pastor driven.

Not one has ever said, "We have functioning Elders giving oversight" only the "board of Elders".....Know what? I'm Bored of the "Board."

Where is Biblical Christianity?
Why OH Why are God's people not speaking up?

As for me, I'd like to address Daystar but consider that for them that are in control of the place, I don't think they'd even bother.

Maybe they are inundated with emails & mail every day.

What do you think believers?

Comments please.
Stefos

 

[parsley]

Not one has ever said, "We have functioning Elders giving oversight" only the "board of Elders".....Know what? I'm Bored of the "Board."

Good point. A board of directors shows how to spend money and make money; a board of elders usually shows how to save and dispense money.

I'm sure it takes significant experience, skill, and knowledge to run these large ministries. But do we need large ministries? They often send the message that believers are audience, not participators and instigators.

 

[Stefos]

Not one has ever said, "We have functioning Elders giving oversight" only the "board of Elders".....Know what? I'm Bored of the "Board."

Good point. A board of directors shows how to spend money and make money; a board of elders usually shows how to save and dispense money.

I'm sure it takes significant experience, skill, and knowledge to run these large ministries. But do we need large ministries? They often send the message that believers are audience, not participators and instigators.

Yep! Exactly.

The New Testament pattern is never based around large ministries.

The reasoning is that "when you gather together, each one has a song, psalm, prophesy, etc." This is NOT possible in these mega-churches.
The "Priest/Pastor" model in the United States must be attacked with vigor because it opposes God's word.....period.

Furthermore, true discipleship & true oversight cannot be done on a large mega-church scale as well.

Show me an "on live t.v." church that is doing it by the written word brother.....none are....YET these Priests, on Catholic stations, and Pastors, on stations like Daystar, are making crazy money while God's children, his body, sick believers, mentally ill believers, believers with no skill sets to make a dollar, etc. suffer!

Ridiculous....and "It's OF GOD" they say........No, it isn't.
Read the word man, you'll see.....This Babylonian harlot mixture system has got to go!

Stefos

 

[BeatingTracksOutOfBabylon]

This Babylonian harlot mixture system has got to go!

Stefos

Nearly ALL churches in America are incorporated as/ or run their major ministries as 501(c)3 non-profit corporations.

5+0+1(c)3
6(c)3
Six See Three
666

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast"

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

 

[phydaux]

"Furthermore, true discipleship & true oversight cannot be done on a large mega-church scale as well."

As one who comes from a mega-church background, I can tell you that I agree 100%. Furthermore, every Pastor, Elder & Deacon in every mega-church I have been involved in would tell you up front that they agree with you 100%.

That's why nearly every American mega-church, and certainly every mega-church I have been involved with, has embraced the Cell Group concept. It is seen as a return to "primitivism," a return to the first century church model, or as you might put it a return to the biblical church model.

The senior pastor (Gr. episcopos Tit 1:5,7) appoints, trains & disciples the teaching elders (Gr. presbureros 1 Pe 5:1,2). The majority of the work done by the mega-church is in building up and training the teaching elders, and equipping them to minster to the saints.

The teaching elders organize & lead the Cell Groups. It is in the Cell Groups that the Body of Christ meets for prayer, fellowship, teaching, discipleship and accountability. There is where the Body is built up. Men who have the capacity to become teaching elders are identified & trained, and given the opportunity to teach under the oversight of a more senior teaching elder.

As the Cell Groups grow a new host home is sought out, and the Cell Group can multiply with the new teaching elder leading the new fellowship.

All believers are called to be "deacons" or "servants" (Gr. diákonos) and to serve one another. It is through the Cell Groups that the saints minster to each other.

One example I remember came from a small group of men who loved cars. They wanted to take their love of working on cars and give it to the Lord, to use for His glory. So they sent out a message through the Cell Group network that they would meet every other Saturday in the church parking lot, and any single mother could come to the church and they would give her car a free oil change and rotate the tires. If the car needed a simple adjustment then they would do it right there for free. They would look and see if there were any small problems, and tell her before they became big problems. And if any auto shop had had tried to sell her some big, expensive repair then they would look over the car and make sure it actually needed the work.

I always thought that was a beautiful example of the saints ministering to the needs of one another by using the gifts God had given them, and giving those gifts back to God. You wouldn't think that "auto mechanic" was a spiritual gift, but God used it as one. And it was through the network of Cell Groups that was part of a mega-church that this ministry was facilitated.

 

[phydaux]

Also, in my experience christian television is a wasteland. If you're looking for anything worthwhile there, then you're wasting your time.

I enjoy christian radio, although I find that anyone on christian radio also has their sermons & bible studies available as MP3 downloads. I have a few favorite bible teachers and I have collections of their teaching on MP3 CDs.

Odds are your favorite teachers have their stuff available on MP3 as well. Who are some of your favorites?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Its because Gods people are okay with the system. Being in a church where pastor does it all removes the responsibility from me to have to do it! Thats okay, Father has looked into every heart and told me and others He is preparing those who love him for what ministry was always meant to be. He will straighten out his house and it starts with us, the church.

 

[phydaux]

I've watching Daystar for some time now to see where it's coming from... A lot of the stuff preached out of there is solid... I also see that ALL ministries on Daystar are pastor driven... Where is Biblical Christianity? Why OH Why are God's people not speaking up?

One of the things I learned in my southern California mega-church was that the way great things happen for God is God's people, lead by Him, go where He is leading and do what He has called them to do. If He indeed has called and ordained the work, then He will bless.

So I would say that if you believe that God wants a TV program that shows the Home Church perspective, then my advice to you would be to go to Best Buy and get a camera.

Now I may sound like I'm being snarky. Please believe me when I say that I am not. If this is something you want to see happen, and you believe this is a calling from God, then simply go and do it, and be prepared for God to bless you beyond your ability to receive.

You may say that you will need editing equipment, and a studio, and some people with AV experience. That's probably true, although you can get a LOT done with an iMac and a digital camcorder.

But say you don't have access to even the most basic equipment. Well, what city do you live in, and are there any mega-churches in that town?

Many people will never go to a mega-church. The pastors and elders already know that. For example, most American mega-churches are lily white. Most major American cities aren't. So every mega-church I've ever been part of has quietly provided financial support to "ethnic" ministries that serve the inner city.

I am sure that if you went to one of the larger churches in your area and said "God has placed in our heard a calling for a TV ministry, and we know your AV equipment is sitting untouched six days a week." I would not be the least bit surprised if they let you use their equipment & studio.

Consider it Moses and the Israelites plundering the house of the Egyptians.

After that, it's just a matter of working out a format that showcases your perspective & teaching in a manner that is palatable to a television viewer.

Odds are that you won't get on Daystar right away. That's OK. Public Access Cable will gladly give you some time each week. That will give you the chance to fine tune until your are ready for prime time.

God bless.

BTW, what city are you in? I may know people.

 

[Stefos]

Hey Players,

The biblical pattern is set in a home predominantly but anyone can gather anywhere as long as the biblical pattern is kept!

Furthermore, Insofar as TV is concerned....Why do a production number with God's body?

IF what I say or others like me say is true, then God will vindicate me and others.

Forget the camcorder & other things.

Be disciples and follow the Lamb, love the Lamb, Eat the entire Passover Lamb.....After all, you ARE what you eat...And make ZERO provision for the fallen nature.....Now let's go live it by HIS grace.

Amen

Stefos

 

[phydaux]

So this thread wasn't about how to use a resource like Christian TV to the further glory of God and the edification of His people, but rather just to criticize other people who are attempting to use Christian TV to the further glory of God and the edification of His people, but who you happen not to agree with?

OK, bro. Whatever. Jesus loves you, and so do I.

 

[Stefos]

Hi Phy,

No sir, you're misunderstanding me YET again.

I never said these brothers and sisters DIDN'T love the Lord...Never.

The point is this:

WHAT is being pushed on t.v.?
Is it the biblical model or not?

Exclusively it's the "Pastor" (Single Charismatic person) shindig happening on t.v. with his wife and a few over the top women pastors as well! LOL

Why is America enamored with Pastors?
What happened to Apostles? Prophets? Teachers? Evangelists?
The other gifts of the Holy Spirit?

Why the Charismatic Pastor elevation at the expense of the entire body properly ministering to one another?

Tell me Phydaux and we'll talk some more.

Finally, the "cell church model" as is touted today with people going out and coming back again to the main building with the single Pastor and sub-Pastors is not biblical.

The believers in the N.T. walked with the Lord daily and the Lord gifted people and caused Elders & deacons to rise up. Every believer ministered to every believer...ministry in Greek means "work" not something abstract...which is to say "work" via the Holy Spirit in each person & through each person.
All of it was natural and not forced......No seminaries because the local body IS the "seminary."
There was no modern day concept of "Leadership" as Jesus was the Leader by the Holy Spirit.
The modern concept of "Leadership" isn't biblical but is based on the Corporate America model.
Elders were overseers, overseeing what was going on in each local body of believers.
There wasn't a Pastor overseeing what was going on in each cell.
That's the difference!

Do you understand?
I don't care about the "modern" church because it's about a single Pastor and the entire burden is on his (usually a male's) shoulders and it's about being "Positive, Happy and fulfilled" but not finding that in God via the Holy Spirit.....no, it's a new form of Humanism with a Christian "veneer."

Do a survey of what you see on Christian T.V. and tell me what's up
Stefos

The Lord Jesus bless you as you follow what his word (His spirit & the written word) say

I really do love you or else I wouldn't bother typing! Really...ya' know?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The modern church, at least in the west is run like a business. Even though it is "non-profit".

Pastors are the CEOs. If you ever want a promotion you need to have proven yourself some how. If you make a mistake the forgiveness may be there but you have a heavy price to pay. I can't imagine Paul & Peter being leaders in the church today. People would hear about the sins they committed and not allow them anywhere near a pulpit or leadership position until they had done MASSIVE counseling and paid their dues.

I actually had a Pastor tell me that once, that in order to be a successful minister a person has to rough it for a while, pay their dues, and come up from the bottom.. Its not about hating on Christians, its about THE TRUTH. Jesus did not want His church to be run by His sheep, He is to be in control. I wager that Jesus could walk into a service today and if he is not wearing a three piece suit or whatever He would not be welcome.

 

[tturt]

Thankful for the tv ministries and give consideration to what's said. Disregard what I don't need and learn what's needed. "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16:15

 

[ezeric]

You don't hear "preachers" too often (if ever) talk like Paul here to the people/saints in Corinth.:

"Look, I am ready this third time to come and visit you; and I will not be a burden to you; for it is not what you own that I want, but you! Children are not supposed to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. 15 And as for me, I will most gladly spend everything I have and be spent myself too for your sakes. If I love you more, am I to be loved less?"

Wow!

There are other times when Paul refers to himself as their 'father'.
He acts like his (FATHER/GOD) when he talks like this!

Who, dares has the 'guts' (is that faith??) to serve (love) his brothers and sisters this way??

This is the true pastor - like JESUS the Great Shepherd.
Pastor means Shepherd.
The Good Shepherd that lays down his life for the sheep…opposed to the
"hired hand", that only takes from the sheep, and runs when trouble comes.

-eric

 

[Stefos]

Thankful for the tv ministries and give consideration to what's said. Disregard what I don't need and learn what's needed. "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16:15

Hi,

I understand your perspective completely but disagree.

Why?

The world is looking at us believers daily and when I see the sum total of teaching on t.v. I'm disgusted:

It's the wrong governmental model & It's "Pastor centric."

Furthermore, Everyone on t.v. is a "solo artist."
It's wrong to put the same person (Typically a Charismatic individual) on a stage with a podium and say "Teach and Preach every week" at every believers expense. Every believer has a ministry and I will fight this false model and expose it until I die.

A great book to read is "Pagan Christianity?" by Frank Viola & George Barna, the well known Evangelical Christian statistician. These 2 brothers did a LOT of work and I find no fault in it!
It will strip away your false teachings and get you past denominational & non-denominational brainwashing and back to the way things were Pre-Constantine & Pre-Church fathers (Desert & Non-Desert "Fathers").
In other words, back to God's word as the pattern.

God bless you as you follow the biblical Jesus in the biblical manner.
Stefos

 

[phydaux]

when I see the sum total of teaching on t.v. I'm disgusted:

It's the wrong governmental model & It's "Pastor centric."

Don't point out problems. Any fool can do that, and most fools so. Provide solutions.

Don't like what you see on Christian TV? Start a TV ministry that showcases your perspective.

If you're right and the Holy Spirit is moving Christ's Body toward a more "primitive" model (and there is good reason to believe that IS happening) then it seems like a TV ministry that shows the Home Church model is something that could be used of God is a great way to bless a lot of His people.

Heck, if Public Access TV is too big (actually, I think Public Access is too SMALL) then start a You Tube channel.

 

[Stefos]

Don't point out problems. Any fool can do that, and most fools so. Provide solutions.

Don't like what you see on Christian TV? Start a TV ministry that showcases your perspective.

If you're right and the Holy Spirit is moving Christ's Body toward a more "primitive" model (and there is good reason to believe that IS happening) then it seems like a TV ministry that shows the Home Church model is something that could be used of God is a great way to bless a lot of His people.

Heck, if Public Access TV is too big (actually, I think Public Access is too SMALL) then start a You Tube channel.

Hi Phy,

Be careful! The Lord said not to call anyone "Fool."
Particularly in anger.......which anyone can do. Right?

We point out the wrong model because that is what must be addressed.
No oversight is being short sighted = Modern day Christianity

We then point to the right model who is "Christ IN you the hope of Glory" and him sovereignly moving in & through his people according to the patterrn.

Noah had a pattern to build after
Moses had a pattern to build after
David had a pattern to build after
Ezekiel had a pattern he pointed to

Jesus IS the pattern for us who are blood bought.

Insofar as t.v. goes "Nope"

There has been far too much stupidity going on there...Remember the 80's?

Besides, the things of the Lord are NOT for sale. $20 for a teaching? Right....Sure......LOL

Stefos

 

[ezeric]

Hey Stef and Phy (and the other Saints here).

The problem in ANY house church/fellowship/prayer group/small group is

Legalism vs. Grace.

This is the ENTIRE problem throughout the Bible and today's world.

All the religions (including the christian one) is one one side and JESUS (full of Grace and Truth) on the other!

We've seen MANY (sad to say) house churches that are legalistic…and some of them don't
have pastors or pews but are still legalistic. It is NOT until we (and I am not
saying none here have or haven't) but its not until we see things through GRACE (and Grace alone)
and see that Grace is the Kingdom…and we are to see with a single eye, not
seeing 'good and evil' but we see JESUS…then we don't get so easily offended,
and can 'speak the truth in love'.

We have to humble ourselves and esteem others better than ourselves. (Phil 2:3)
But we CANT do this (be humble) if we try, we get there when we die.

"I die daily" - Paul writes. 1 Corinthians 15:31-33

And Paul reminds us that the vail is only removed when JESUS is preached.
As long as Moses is taught (law/commandments) everyone is under the vail (can't see).
2 Corinthians 3:12-15

Also that as long as 'do this' and 'don't do that' is preached (law) then
trespasses increases! (we get MORE sin, if we teach rules and laws). Romans 5:20

The only house church/small group etc… is the one that serves one another.

-eric

 

[Stefos]

Hi Ezeric,

No sir....Legalism vs. Grace is not THE problem, par excellence.

We have laid before us in the word a pattern.

Over & Over again....A pattern....An ORDERLY pattern and not a haphazard one.

Adam & Eve were given a "pattern" to follow by the Lord
Noah was given the ark pattern.
Moses & Aaron were given the roles of "God" and "God's prophet" pattern by the Lord!
(Read the word, you'll see what I say is true)
Moses was given the Tabernacle pattern.
David, the Temple Solomon built
Daniel, The Messiah's government whose pattern would know no end.
Ezekiel, The pattern of the Temple.

Jesus, the pattern of all the above I just mentioned.

The Church, patterned after the Lord and his relationship to the father AND
Ancient Israel.

The 2 problems are:
Biiblical model vs. Non-Biblical model
Legalism vs. Grace

I think, sir, that is the best way of stating it.
Stefos