Days after Trump takes over, US has first mid-air collision in 16 years

[ThatRobGuy]

As for the rest, surely its just really badly timed coincidence. And the buyout was an offer, not a demand.

Correct, it sounds like it one of those things that likely would've happened no matter who got elected because all of the systems in place aren't perfect. If you listen to the audio (they've released some of it), it sounds like the standard procedures were followed and the Air Traffic Controllers made multiple attempts to reach out to both the airline and helicopter pilots.

"Hey we see this situation that's likely going to be a problem, notify the pilots" is about all they can do. They monitored like they should, and they made multiple attempts to notify and rectify.

Oh... except for Trump blaming DEI for this. No coincidence. Thats just him winding up his MAGA people. It will probably work.

This one's an interesting aspect. The Young Turks (notoriously left-leaning, and obviously not Trump fans) actually did a surprising editorial about it where they actually deep dived into the particular policy he was referring to, and that there was a lowering of standards done in the name of promoting diversity.

However, all that being said, there's no evidence to suggest that the concerning policies in question had any direct correlation to this incident.
(same goes for the "DOGE" efforts, people seem to be blaming that a lot as well, it's not as if an entire organization falls apart because one link the upper management chain -- on the human resources side -- goes away, especially with regards to the minutia of the standard daily operations. It'd be like if my company laid off the HR Director tomorrow, and then two days later, someone made a major screw up on the Database team, the two events would have nothing to do with each other)

The concerning policies in question were actually phased out in 2016 during Trump's first term, and there's really no way to know how many of the the current FAA controllers were hired under the lowered standards (or whether they would've passed the normal test), and how many of them are still employed there.

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm sorry you feel that tragic deaths aren't important.

I'm sorry that you use tragic deaths as opportunities for political arguments.

 

[NxNW]

I'm sorry that you use tragic deaths as opportunities for political arguments.

That was Trump claiming they were due to DEI hiring.

 

[Aldebaran]

That was Trump claiming they were due to DEI hiring.

Nope. That was you.

 

[rturner76]

In this thread, I'm mainly seeing this incident being used as an opportunity to attack Trump, even while most of the bodies are still within the fuselage of the plane submerged in the water.
The sensitivity that used to be so important to the anti-Trump crowd seems to have become more calloused these days.

I have not been appraised on the social media reaction. Regarding social media 90% of what I look at is on Christian forums with a monthly check-in on Facebook. Even on there I have never really clicked on banners by one group or another. I have however noticed the overwhelming majority of Christian forum members are White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. So I guess I don't understand how a person would decide to blame the previous administration for a mistake made under the current administration. Having said that, I don't think it is the fault of Trump or Biden. It was most likely a human or a computer error. So whatever side one is on, I don't think it's realistic to blame any individual besides possibly the specific ATC that directed someone to go to the wrong height. It could have also been pilot error but I don't see it as the fault of the President. At least on this site, I see many more people backing Trump and whatever comes out of his mouth. It has always puzzled me how Conservatives hold up personal freedom when they are the ones who desire to limit freedom based on religious beliefs which is completely opposed to what the Constitution is based on. Sorry for the dig but it's something I can't quite wrap my brain around.

 

[rturner76]

Nope. That was you.

I listened to Trup's press conference and I am 99% sure I heard/saw him blaming Biden for allowing unqualified "psycologiclt inferior people instead of people with superior psychological abilities" (paraphrase). Did you happen to miss that? I'm only asking because I detect that you feel you have the conservative answers but missing that part of his speech or ignoring it is likely an uninformed opinion or Consertive brainwashing which seems to me so common.

 

[durangodawood]

Correct, it sounds like it one of those things that likely would've happened no matter who got elected because all of the systems in place aren't perfect. If you listen to the audio (they've released some of it), it sounds like the standard procedures were followed and the Air Traffic Controllers made multiple attempts to reach out to both the airline and helicopter pilots.

"Hey we see this situation that's likely going to be a problem, notify the pilots" is about all they can do. They monitored like they should, and they made multiple attempts to notify and rectify.



This one's an interesting aspect. The Young Turks (notoriously left-leaning, and obviously not Trump fans) actually did a surprising editorial about it where they actually deep dived into the particular policy he was referring to, and that there was a lowering of standards done in the name of promoting diversity.

However, all that being said, there's no evidence to suggest that the concerning policies in question had any direct correlation to this incident.
(same goes for the "DOGE" efforts, people seem to be blaming that a lot as well, it's not as if an entire organization falls apart because one link the upper management chain -- on the human resources side -- goes away, especially with regards to the minutia of the standard daily operations. It'd be like if my company laid off the HR Director tomorrow, and then two days later, someone made a major screw up on the Database team, the two events would have nothing to do with each other)

The concerning policies in question were actually phased out in 2016 during Trump's first term, and there's really no way to know how many of the the current FAA controllers were hired under the lowered standards (or whether they would've passed the normal test), and how many of them are still employed there.

Interesting video. Seems believable. But so do a lot of one sided presentation - until you hear the other side. But as for now, believable.

Of course theres a case to be made against various DEI practices. But un-evidenced next-day blame for a plane wreck is probably the wrong format for this.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Interesting video. Seems believable. But so do a lot of one sided presentation - until you hear the other side. But as for now, believable.

Of course theres a case to be made against various DEI practices. But un-evidenced next-day blame for a plane wreck is probably the wrong format for this.

The Young Turks certainly weren't blaming the DEI policy for this crash, they noted that one didn't have anything do to with the other. They were just pointing out that the DEI policies Trump mentioned weren't something he just randomly pulled out of his rear end.

Even though I'm not "of their ilk" on every issue, they're pretty far left on almost everything, I'm not, but I'm still listen to their program 2-3 times a week, Cenk and Ana are straight shooters (and Ana is nothing if not meticulous in her research and coverage of certain stories...she's one of the few debaters from the progressive left who can do a 2-hour long form debate with the likes of a Ben Shapiro or Charlie Kirk and hold her own and aggressively argue for the progressive position without falling into their rhetorical traps)

 

[durangodawood]

The Young Turks certainly weren't blaming the DEI policy for this crash, they noted that one didn't have anything do to with the other. They were just pointing out that the DEI policies Trump mentioned weren't something he just randomly pulled out of his rear end.

Re blame I was talking about Trumps behavior in the day or so following the wreck.

Even though I'm not "of their ilk" on every issue, they're pretty far left on almost everything, I'm not, but I'm still listen to their program 2-3 times a week, Cenk and Ana are straight shooters (and Ana is nothing if not meticulous in her research and coverage of certain stories...she's one of the few debaters from the progressive left who can do a 2-hour long form debate with the likes of a Ben Shapiro or Charlie Kirk and hold her own and aggressively argue for the progressive position without falling into their rhetorical traps)

Interesting. Maybe I'll give them a try. I dont do a lot of quick reaction politics stuff. Maybe some Sam Harris, who despises Trump for good reason, but also rejects the whole "woke " movement.

In debates tho, I'd prefer the "conservative" position to be represented by people more thoughtful and less bunkered than Shapiro and Kirk.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Interesting. Maybe I'll give them a try. I dont do a lot of quick reaction politics stuff. Maybe some Sam Harris, who despises Trump for good reason, but also rejects the whole "woke " movement.

In debates tho, I'd prefer the "conservative" position to be represented by people more thoughtful and less bunkered than Shapiro and Kirk.

The reason why those guys have so much success in debates is precisely because they practice it, and do enough homework to "own" the other side.

The dirty little secret about a lot of those guys, the ones who are particularly polarizing, and who people from their opposition tend to hate the most, yeah...they're all actually pretty chummy with each other.

What you're seeing here is a dinner photo of Jordan Peterson, Weinstein, Shapiro, Dave Rubin, Joe Rogan, and Sam Harris having a "bro night" lol.

The reason guys like Shapiro and Harris are so good at "destroying" (as the youtube video titles would label it) their opposition is because they've spent enough hanging out with each other, that they've debated the "steelman" version of the other sides argument, so getting up on a campus stage and "owning" a nervous college kid is "light work".

 

[durangodawood]

The reason why those guys have so much success in debates is precisely because they practice it, and do enough homework to "own" the other side.

The dirty little secret about a lot of those guys, the ones who are particularly polarizing, and who people from their opposition tend to hate the most, yeah...they're all actually pretty chummy with each other.


View attachment 360549

What you're seeing here is a dinner photo of Jordan Peterson, Weinstein, Shapiro, Dave Rubin, Joe Rogan, and Sam Harris having a "bro night" lol.

The reason guys like Shapiro and Harris are so good at "destroying" (as the youtube video titles would label it) their opposition is because they've spent enough hanging out with each other, that they've debated the "steelman" version of the other sides argument, so getting up on a campus stage and "owning" a nervous college kid is "light work".

I dont think this means they are disingenuous. Peterson looks like hes dying inside. Harris is being his zen master self.

If D'Souza was there, then I'd flip out.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I dont think this means they are disingenuous. Peterson looks like hes dying inside. Harris is being his zen master self.

If D'Souza was there, then I'd flip out.

I wasn't claiming they were disingenuous about their viewpoints. Quite the opposite. Shapiro and Harris are both made better at their craft by interacting with each other. If Shapiro's only debate opponent was a freshmen philosophy major, and Harris's only debate opponent was Marjorie Taylor Greene, do you think either of them would be that skilled at their craft?

To "break down the 4th wall", I do know one of the people in that picture on more than just a "casual meet & greet" level through a cousin who's a personal friend of one of them and I have talked with them numerous times at multiple social gatherings, I won't say which one it is, but the only hint I'll give is that it's not Joe Rogan lol. (but I've had a couple of beers and now I've said too much lol)

There's an art behind being able to "own" people in debates.

 

[Aldebaran]

I listened to Trup's press conference and I am 99% sure I heard/saw him blaming Biden for allowing unqualified "psycologiclt inferior people instead of people with superior psychological abilities" (paraphrase). Did you happen to miss that? I'm only asking because I detect that you feel you have the conservative answers but missing that part of his speech or ignoring it is likely an uninformed opinion or Consertive brainwashing which seems to me so common.

DEI has led to the shortages of air traffic controllers:

"A major class-action lawsuit has been filed against the federal agency over claims that applications for air traffic controllers were rejected based on race.

The original lawsuit was filed on behalf of Andrew Brigida, who claimed the FAA under the Obama administration dropped a skill-based system for hiring air traffic controllers (ATCs) and replaced it with a "biographical assessment," which was allegedly used to attract more minority applicants.

Brigida, who is white and scored 100 percent on his training exam, said he was discriminated against because of his race when his application was rejected.

In January 2014, Brigida received an email informing him that the FAA was "implementing changes to improve and streamline" the hiring process for air traffic controllers and that his application was "impacted" by these changes, according to William Perry Pendley, an attorney and president of the Mountain States Legal Foundation, the firm handling the lawsuit.

The Mountain States Legal Foundation is representing hundreds of people from different racial backgrounds who say they were discriminated against under the FAA's hiring policy."

Did FAA reject air traffic controllers based on race? What we know

The federal agency is facing a major class action lawsuit of alleged discriminatory hiring polices during the Obama administration.

www.newsweek.com

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Why are you talking about biden's term in office?


Only according to biden. The voters decided otherwise.
MAGA baby! Yeeeeaaahhh! Woo hooooo!

The people that voted for Trump, decided to vote for à criminal. They're trying to make excuses. Or , they don't care.

 

[stevil]

What happens when "alternate fact" , imaginative lies and incorrect information hits reality? And a large part of the country cannot acknowledge it?

Well, USA has had at least 8 years of that. So you guys should already know the outcome.

 

[stevil]

This one's an interesting aspect. The Young Turks (notoriously left-leaning, and obviously not Trump fans) actually did a surprising editorial about it where they actually deep dived into the particular policy he was referring to, and that there was a lowering of standards done in the name of promoting diversity.

Cenk and Anna have gone really weird since the election. Those two are now blaming Democrats for everything and doing a both sides false equivalence.
There are a lot of inaccuracies coming from them at the moment.

However, all that being said, there's no evidence to suggest that the concerning policies in question had any direct correlation to this incident.

The crash is obviously a tragedy and warrants a through investigation.
All this speculation pinning it on either handicapped or DEI hires or on Trump's office firing people from FAA is pure speculation.
Both these things should be investigated, but no one should be claiming either of these as the cause, at least until the investigation is done and a report made public.

Sensible people truly concerned about flight safety, should not be spreading unfounded rumours. Leave the trolling and baiting and politicising of this incident to the fools of the world, they are best ignored.

 

[Pommer]

DEI has led to the shortages of air traffic controllers:

"A major class-action lawsuit has been filed against the federal agency over claims that applications for air traffic controllers were rejected based on race.

The original lawsuit was filed on behalf of Andrew Brigida, who claimed the FAA under the Obama administration dropped a skill-based system for hiring air traffic controllers (ATCs) and replaced it with a "biographical assessment," which was allegedly used to attract more minority applicants.

Brigida, who is white and scored 100 percent on his training exam, said he was discriminated against because of his race when his application was rejected.

In January 2014, Brigida received an email informing him that the FAA was "implementing changes to improve and streamline" the hiring process for air traffic controllers and that his application was "impacted" by these changes, according to William Perry Pendley, an attorney and president of the Mountain States Legal Foundation, the firm handling the lawsuit.

The Mountain States Legal Foundation is representing hundreds of people from different racial backgrounds who say they were discriminated against under the FAA's hiring policy."

Did FAA reject air traffic controllers based on race? What we know

The federal agency is facing a major class action lawsuit of alleged discriminatory hiring polices during the Obama administration.

www.newsweek.com

I have only seen this case reported on from the right side of the media.
The defense hasn’t even replied yet.
The only thing that has happened, is that the class has been certified.

 

[rockytopva]

Best breakdown of the accident here...

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I just posted the facts.

If your intention wasnt to blame Trump, you posted milseading and irrelevant facts.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Cenk and Anna have gone really weird since the election. Those two are now blaming Democrats for everything and doing a both sides false equivalence.
There are a lot of inaccuracies coming from them at the moment.

Inaccuracies? or things you don't like?

In the video I linked, she does a pretty detailed overview of the policies in question, including which aspect of the tests and certification process were impacted by the previous rules. Nothing they said in that clip was inaccurate from what I can tell.

And they still weren't giving any support to Trump's statements claiming that DEI was to blame, they openly stated the DEI policies had nothing to do with this crash. They were just merely being honest about the fact that the "DEI lowered standards among air traffic controllers" wasn't some random conspiracy theory he pulled out of thin air.


I've not noticed any sort of "equivalence" attempts in their content. They still go after the GOP ten times more than they go after democrats (and more harshly in most cases)


But perhaps the perceptions you've gotten from them is symptomatic of a broader form of "denialism" that's that the Democrats experiencing.

If Progressive pundits using a fraction of their time to make critiques about their own party is being seen "both sides'ing", perhaps that's the problem.

That's very reminiscent of some of the discourse we see here on CF.

Where there seems to be this attitude of "The GOP/Trump is so uniquely bad, we shouldn't even spend any time talking about the Democrats until Trump is out of the way, therefore any critiques of democrats should just be immediately dismissed as both sides'ing or whataboutism"

...while that may be the dominate thought process in Democratic echo-chambers in coastal states, the 2024 election results would indicate that sentiment isn't as omnipresent among the rest of the country.