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"Day of the Lord" and "Great Tribulation"

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by ladylove, Oct 18, 2002.

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  1. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    I am interested to know as to who knows the difference between these two events, if any.  I happen to know and that has given me my understanding of the rapture of the church, but I am more interested in what YOU ALL think. Any ideas?
     
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  2. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

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    Protestant
    Day of the Lord--A decisive moment in which God acts in the midst of human history, making plain the choice between good and evil, blessing and curse, life and death. Confronted by the presence of God on the one hand and our own inner lawlessness on the other, we must choose on that Day whom we will follow: Christ or that which is opposed to Christ (antichrist).

    Great Tribulation--In the synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke), "the great tribulation" specifically refers to the period of intense suffering surrounding the fall of Jerusalem. This "tribulation," while inflicted primarily by pagan Rome, is to be understood as divine retribution against apostate Israel for its rejection of God's Messiah. However, Jesus makes clear to his disciples not to be caught unaware or they, too, will suffer the consequences of God's wrath. His advice to his disciples is to flee Jerusalem when they see certain things beginning to happen.

    In the Johannine tradition (John, Revelation), "tribulation" is used in a somewhat different context. Jesus tells his disciples, "In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world" (John 16:33b). John sees "tribulation" as something which the Church, both individually and corporately, must go through in order to be sanctified and perfected in the image of Christ. It is the inevitable consequence of the Church's engagement with a world already overcome by Christ, but nevertheless still determined to inflict suffering upon his disciples.

    The end result of the Church enduring "the great tribulation" is seen in Revelation 7:9-17.

    That the glorified saints are seen "coming out of the great tribulation" is significant. It would appear that, in Revelation, "the great tribulation" is a metaphor for the ordeal which all believers must endure in this world. This is consistent with the theme first introduced in John 16:33b. "The great tribulation" is not something these saints "have come out of" or "will come out of." Rather, it is something which they are "coming out of." This suggests that "the great tribulation," in this context, is not so much a specific event which can be be pointed to as having happened sometime in history, but the ongoing experience of the Church, individually and corporately, as it is prepared for the glory of eternal life.
     
  3. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    Patmo,

    I knew you would be the first to respond. You are partially correct, but not completely. The great tribulation is the greatest persecution that the Church will ever know since her founding, but it IS a specific period of time and is cut SHORT by the Lord Himself at His 2nd coming. This event is taught by Jesus Himself in Matt. 24:21-22. Everything else you posted regarding the great tribulation and the Day of the Lord, is patently false. Okay, other remarks, please...
     
  4. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    Whie I don't necessarily agree with everything Patmosman said, I affirm He hit the nail on the head about the "Day of the Lord".

    A Biblical "Day of the Lord" (There have been several throughout human history) encompasses exactly wat Patmosman said it does.

    The 2nd coming of Christ is a Day of the Lord event, the greatest in all human history, but not the only Day of the Lord event that ever was. Scripture confirms there have been several.

     
     
  5. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

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    Protestant
    Why do you ask questions and then cast aspersions on other people's answers? If you already know everything there is to know, why bother to ask what someone else thinks?
     
  6. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

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    Protestant
    . . .and each such "Day" has profound eschatological significance. The resurrection is the quintessential eschatological event. That is, it is an event within history which points to the end of history. The Church, being founded upon the Person who is that event (Christ said, "I am the resurrection"), thus becomes an eschatological community, existing within history while anticipating history's end; embodying in the present the values and dynamics of life in the coming kingdom of God.
     
  7. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    Patmo,

    I am teaching that is why...I am doing this for my readers and not necessarily you. You give me teaching opportunity and that is why I do this. Yes, eschaltology is difficult and you are entitled to your opinions, but I seek what is most consistently taught throughout Scripture and unfortunately your views are not consistent.
     
  8. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    No, Patmo did not hit the nail about anything, except the Church will endure the great tribulation.  That is about it. 

    All other statements are patently false and your agreement will put your statements in the same catagory as well. 

    There certainly is specific event that does indeed indicate the "Day of the Lord" has come as well as an event that earmarks the great tribulation for the church and the end of such persecution.  Apparently, at this point no one seems to know what those events are.  How surprising...anyone else care to try? 

     

     

     
     
  9. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

    375
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    Protestant
    So what are your credentials for teaching eschatology, other than your claim to know "what is most consistently taught throughout Scripture" and your presumptuous right to pass judgment on everybody else?

    From what I have read of your "teaching," you are precisely the type which Paul warned Timothy about:

     
  10. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    Well Patmo,

    It goes to show that those who quietly understand Scripture don't have to be defensive like yourself and can go quietly teaching without making false assumptions that are inconsistent with Scripture. I don't have to explain anything to you for I owe you nothing. Like I said, you are entitled to your opinions, but like them you talk a lot but say nothing especially as it relates to eschatologoy. It really is that simple.
     
  11. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

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    Protestant
    I don't have to be defensive because my own credentials are not in question here. I was ordained by a legitimate ecclesiastical authority and charged to preach and teach the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, and no other. As an elder in the Church, however, I have a responsibility to be on guard against presumptuous individuals who set themselves up as "teachers" and spread false doctrines based on myths while denouncing Apostolic teaching as somehow being in error.
     
  12. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    Patmo,

    It is a good thing I don't go to your church then. I would get nothing out of it and it would be a waste of my spiritual time. The Lord warns his true flock of churches and shepards like you who "pretend" to lead flocks but have not the "power thereof." You are certainly a prime example of Zech. 11:15-17.

    I will see if others will have the courage to understand the difficulty of my thread and if not I will give all the readers the right understanding of it. But until then...please just sit back and listen. Thanks.
     
  13. MARANATHA2002

    MARANATHA2002 Member

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    What I get out of my study of eschatology and prophetic events, which I have as a hobby, studied for 25 years now, along with other theories of pre-flood conditions of the earth and the physical causes, which were put in place by GOD that caused the flood to happen, from the scaring we can see on the earth’s surface and ocean floors, but that is another subject.

    The Day of THE LORD. I believe from scripture this is the day of CHRIST physical return. This 16 hour day (my belief), happens at the 6th seal, the 7th trumpet, and 7th bowl of wrath of Revelation. We can also read Matthew’s parallel in Chapter 24:29 & 30. This is the 2520th day of the 7-year period of the tribulation, the treaty or covenant with many that the anti-christ signs. All those who stand against CHRIST at this return are killed, all governments are disbanded, all armed forces that are opposing the armies of heaven are completely destroyed. This is a physical battle at the physical return of CHRIST.

    The phrase Day of THE LORD, also represents the thousand year day or kingdom of GOD, as we can read of in Revelation, I believe Peter and Psalms elude to a thousand year period also. We can read of many events and conditions during this thousand year period in the Old Testament prophecies. You will see the phase stated as “In that day”.

    There will be those who disagree here, but I believe that this is a known date. The very day CHRIST sets HIS feet on the ground, can and will be known by the tribulation saints. This day will be able to be calculated from two events, the signing of the covenant by the anti-christ, 2520 days, and the abomination of desolation, 1260 days. I will not go into the math here, but a study of Revelation along with Daniel does show this. Do we know this date now, absolutely NO. Will the people during the tribulation be able to know absolutely YES. And again, I know there are some that will not share this belief, and I do not have a problem, if you do not agree with me.

    As to the tribulation period, I believe this 7-year period starts when the anti-christ signs the covenant with many. The tribulation I believe is separated into halves, with the second half being described as the great tribulation. The first 1260 day period is the anti-christ setting up his kingdom, at the mid-point he kills the two witnesses and commits the abomination of desolation. Revelation is very specific that he has only 1260 days after these events.

    I also believe the current events in the world are setting the stage for Ezekiel 38 & 39. I believe this battle will be the first in the war of Armageddon. It will also be so terror-ible that it will bring about the world government, which will bring the anti-christ to power, and his signing of the 7-year treaty.

    I will say this, though these are my beliefs, I realize they may or may not be the beliefs of others. I also am not dogmatic on my beliefs, because I realize that it is possible to miss-interpret events, but to the best of my study this is what I believe and hopefully, I was able to explain why I believe what I believe. Peace, but not yet.
     
  14. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    Ladylove,

    With all due respect, that there have been several "Day of the Lord" events throughout Human History is a scriptural fact.

    To say that is "patently false", is to say scripture is patently false.

    For you to claim there is only one Day of the Lord spoken of in scripture, (That is your claim right?)shows your ignorance on the issue.

    The OT is full of descriptions of long since "past fulfilled events" (The Babylonian exile & Babylonian Destruction for example) that were called by the prophets, "The Day of the Lord"

    The Day of Chirst, (2nd coming) is indeed a Day of the Lord event, and make no mistake, it is the greatest of all, but not the only one that ever was or only one spoken of in scripture.

    To claim otherwise is a claim against the authority of scripture on the matter.
     
  15. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    Lastd,

    You seem to know as much about the Day of the Lord as Patmo. It really is telling. It just goes to show how much misinformation is out there about eschatology and you just esposed it. So sorry.
     
  16. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    Maranatha,

    At least you have studied to show that you have something worthwhile to "say." Tho' I do not agree, I do respect your diligent effort and for that I commend you. Will all of us be right 100%? More than likely not, but some will be very, very close possibly as much as 99.9%!!!

    This is what makes eschatology both fascinating and frustrating, is it not? It is hard for the ancient writers (like the Apostle John and the Prophet Daniel) to understand what they are seeing, absorb it and communicate to a far distant audience what may indeed be happening to them! What an awesome responsibility that God had entrusted to the ancients!

    Nevertheless, you have come the closest so far to what Scripture states, but I have disagreement with you about some issues in your statement.

    1) I think it is a "stretch" to state that the Day of the Lord relates to the Lord's 1000 year kingdom. In fact, the Day of the Lord as you correctly stated begins at the 6th seal just before the breaking of the 7th seal. Incidently, the rapture begins the Day of the Lord which will all happen in the same day tho' separate events. You also correctly stated it is God's unique, undiluted judgment which is directed at the unrepentent and why this event is unlike any other in the history of man. Lastd, is mistaken. There is no other Day of the Lord like this in history with the sole exception of possibly the flood of Genesis. Even the flood did not end the Satanic rule, but the Day of the Lord will indeed put it to an end and the rightful ruler will take His place...

    2) You are correct about the day of the Lord's return, I do not agree with you. Have you not read Matt. 24:36? The Lord Himself warns that NO ONE will know the day of His return except the Father. The Lord Himself, in his humanity did not know the day; so how can the tribulation saints know if the Lord did not? Please go back and rethink this statement, I think you will see this.

    Having said this; however, we will not be flying blind. The tribulation church saints will indeed KNOW the season of His return as the Matt. 24 parables state. In fact, I will submit to you that His return will be in the fall of the year between the high holy days....are you intrigued? This will be as the fall festivals proscribe...it is just fascinating research...remember this, if the Lord fulfilled the spring festivals He MUST by Jewish Law fulfill what is left upon His return. It is truly spooky...and compelling research.

    3) Tho' the tribulation "effects" start slowly after the signing of the covenant between Israel and anti-christ, the true chruch will have enough time to prepare herself for the last 3 1/2 years when she must endure what will be unyeilding persecution by the anti-christ. The first half is her time of preparation before the anti-christ declares himself "god" and demands the world's worship as such. God help us!!!

    Nice post, Maranatha!!
     
  17. jenlu

    jenlu Member

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    ladylove....

    You talk(type) or "teach" as if you are the first person to ever come up with this stuff...I've heard this for 20+ years, if not more...spooky and intriguing(sp) to you, maybe...but old news...

    Hard for the ancient writers???? Excuse me...you really believe God did not WRITE the Bible???You think it was hard for Him...This premise on why some of the Bible is "tough" to understand or why the writers could not accurately describe what God wanted them to write is obviously ridiculous...

    99.9% huh...treading on thin ice here...what do you say we go for (even tho' I believe this to be false) that .01% and get your prediction(you know, signs of the times) of when the end shall be...you may round if you like...2010?....2015?....2020?...I'll even let you get away with the "I don't think we'll see the year 2030" type prediciton...
     
  18. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    Is that your best shot?

    Again, The phrase "The Day of the Lord" was used often by the prophets to describe Real life Judgements of God that ocourred throughout History.

    The Day of Chirst is not the only "day of the Lord" that ever was. That is a scriptural fact.

    To deny this, as you are, is what is trulley telling, and goes to show how much disinformation you are spreading here.

    Why don't you put your money where your mouth is, and take a few of those OT Day of the Lord events, and explain for our readers, using scripture, why you are right and I am wrong? I'll give you an easy one:

    Zephaniah 1:1 - 1:7

    The word of Yahweh which came to Zephaniah, the son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hezekiah,<B> </B>in the days of Josiah, the son of Amon, king of Judah. I will utterly sweep away everything off of the surface of the earth, says Yahweh. I will sweep away man and animal. I will sweep away the birds of the sky, the fish of the sea, and the heaps of rubble with the wicked. I will cut off man from the surface of the earth, says Yahweh. I will stretch out my hand against Judah, and against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place: the name of the idolatrous and pagan priests, those who worship the host of the sky on the housetops, those who worship and swear by Yahweh and also swear by Malcam, those who have turned back from following Yahweh, and those who haven't sought Yahweh nor inquired after him. Be silent at the presence of the Lord Yahweh, for the day of&nbsp;The Lord&nbsp;is at hand. For Yahweh has prepared a sacrifice. He has consecrated his guests.

    Dear readers,
    The Prophet Zephaniah is fortelling the desolation of Jerusalem by the Babylonians, and calls it "The day of the Lord, thus,The desolation of Jerusalem by the Babylonians was a past "Day of the Lord." Event according to scripture.&nbsp;

    Now,&nbsp;since Ladylove disagrees, perhaps she'll actually prove her claim by showing us all, WITH SCRIPTURE,&nbsp;why&nbsp;she believes&nbsp;my claim to be&nbsp;wrong about this.&nbsp;
     
  19. LastDazed

    LastDazed New Member

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    Interesting take.

    First off, it is apparent you didn't read or understand my stance.
    as I said before:
    The Day of Chirst, is indeed a Day of the Lord event, and make no mistake, it is the greatest of all, but not the only one that ever was or only one spoken of in scripture.

    You seem to think I said the day of Christ is equivalent to the other "Day of the Lord" judgement events recorded in scripture. I actually said the Day of Christ is the greatest of all. Please don't misrepresent my views.

    Next, you seem to be saying Satan Rules the world today, and Christ does not. nothing could be further from the truth. The Cross put an end to Satans rule once and for all, and Jesus Christ alone rules the world today. To suggest otherwise is Blasphemey.

    Matt. 28:18
    "And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven AND ON EARTH."

    Thats all authority. not some, not most, but all.
    To suggest that Jesus has not yet assumed His position as King of the earth, is unbiblical.
    Who exactly are you claiming has power and authority above that which Christ now posesses?
    Satan?
    Better check who you serve.
     
  20. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    Well, if you "know" so much why did you state it first?&nbsp; Your statement is just not credible.&nbsp; Sorry.&nbsp; I expect opposition when you have proper biblical interpretation, and you are not the first in this thread either.&nbsp;


    Again, you don't know what I believe about&nbsp;the author of the Bible, your assumption makes your comment&nbsp;look, well, stupid.&nbsp;How would you like to be a 3rd century man before the birth of Christ and explain what will happen possibly&nbsp;2300&nbsp;years from now?&nbsp; Give them and me a break...I just don't think you could do any better.

    Your mockery makes you look ignorant and not one who has studied prophecy.&nbsp; I make no date predictions, but you foolishly can.
     
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