Dawn phenomenon help?

[ex-pat]

Recently diagnosed as diabetic, meds seem to be working all during the day except at night...I have a nice, normal blood glucose reading at night before bedtime, and by morning it has gone up quite high...even higher than some post-meal readings. Both my nurse and my dietician say this is common for dawn phenomenon, and that no one yet has a good way to deal with it.

Has anyone else encountered this, and, if so, how did you or your MD deal with it?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I am not sure, but do you know what insulin resistance is all about?

 

[freedom1234]

I actually get similar occurences when I loose track of my carbs intake - I control by diet at the moment. My dietician explained that around dawn the body releases sugar to start the wake up process. This then needs time to absorb hence the starvation figure is higher than the pre sleep figure.

 

[ex-pat]

Thanks for both replies. I know what causes it, but I don't know (nor can my docs or nurses tell me) how to get those numbers down lower.

 

[freedom1234]

You really need to watch the carbs in spite of what the medical profession state. Look at this book - Blood Sugar 101 - What they don't Tell you about Diabetes by Jenny Ruhl

It is available on Amazon certainly in UK and it is American authored. I found it helpful to look again at the level of carbs I take in. Any carbs after around 8pm always give me a spike the next day on the fasting test strip. Are you having to pay your own test strips? If so Amazon have a good cheap one with cheap strips called Codefree. It is certified on accuracy so good bet.

 

[ex-pat]

I'm usually way under my carb intake..by about 50%...I'll check and see about the book, thanks! And, no, I don't pay for my test strips...well, only 10% of cost. Insurance gets the rest. Thanks for your replies.

 

[freedom1234]

Ok

THings like pasta are highly recommended by medics but they do seem to give a spike some hours later but still a spike. I like to keep to around 100 gms carb per day and it is the hidden ones that are the real pain to count. Sugars are such a widespread additive to even savoury foods.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Thanks for both replies. I know what causes it, but I don't know (nor can my docs or nurses tell me) how to get those numbers down lower.

Well there are a couple of things you can do, some of which I am sure you know. The key is to keep your insulin levels as low as possible while feeding your pancreas and liver the nutrients they need to function better.

You keep your insulin levels low by staying away from simple sugars, artificial sweeteners, high fructose corn syrup and things like that. You want to also ensure that you are getting enough fibre in your food because the fibre controls the rate at which sugar is going to enter the bloodstream, and will prevent your blood sugar from spiking. This is why complex carbs are ok, because of the fibre it has. With anything you eat, just ensure you are getting fibre from it. Take note than animal products have no fibre so your meal should never consist of just animal products if any.

Next you want to feed your liver and pancreas proper nutrients. Your liver happens to live dark green leafy vegetables, and the more bitter the more your liver loves it unfortunately. Your liver loves Kale and Spinach. Your Pancreas loves them as well but particularly loves Lettuce. Pretty much any dark green leavy vegetable will help those organs operate at an improved level.

Finally, you should pay attention to stomach fat. I do not know your case, but if you have too much stomach fat you should really try to lose that. This type of fat known as visceral fat promotes insulin resistance by releasing chemicals that cause your insulin receptors on your cells to be incapacitated and this insulin do its job well, and it will take much more insulin to achieve its function, further wearing out your pancreas. So if stomach fat is an issue in your case, I would advise you to start an exercise program if you have not already done so.

 

[DaisyDay]

Ok

THings like pasta are highly recommended by medics but they do seem to give a spike some hours later but still a spike. I like to keep to around 100 gms carb per day and it is the hidden ones that are the real pain to count. Sugars are such a widespread additive to even savoury foods.

Things like pasta are strongly recommended against because of the simple carbohydrates it has.

 

[blackribbon]

http://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/blog/controlling-the-dawn-phenomenon/

This article suggests eating a green apple before bed or a cornstarch product or a vinegar product. Or maybe take your long-acting a bit later at night so it peaks later in the morning. It isn't necessarily about what you are or are not eating during the day time but rather some of the body's natural nighttime functions. If your sugars are getting too high while you sleep, then maybe you just set your alarm and do a before dawn blood glucose check and treat with a sliding scale..but talk to your doctor first because you don't want to bottom out before you wake up in the morning. Whatever you do, keep a diary so you know what worked and didn't work.

 

[JDude]

Just turn up your basal rate...

 

[DaisyDay]

Just turn up your basal rate...

What does that mean?

 

[JDude]

Are you type 2 or 1?

 

[DaisyDay]

2

I still don't know what "turn up your basal rate" means.

 

[blackribbon]

Don't adjust your insulin without consulting your doctor (turn up your basal rate involves increasing your insulin, I believe) Keep a food/blood glucose diary and go in for a check up. Record what you eat and when every day for something like a month Include what time you eat it (quantities included) and the resulting blood sugars at your normal check times. I would also include what time you go to bed so they see what your normal "cycle" is and where the issue might be.

 

[DaisyDay]

I don't take insulin - Metformin, instead. I know that the food/blood sugar diary is an excellent idea. I think getting my thyroid level up (got removed) has helped.

 

[Hopes]

I don't take insulin - Metformin, instead. I know that the food/blood sugar diary is an excellent idea. I think getting my thyroid level up (got removed) has helped.

It might be the metformin. Metformin worked for me for about two years before it crapped out on me and they tried to add a second medication then. When that put me in the hospital (pancreatitis) so I switched to insulin. I am now on both lantus and humalog and I have much better control over my blood sugar.

Metformin is good for some people but it was a nightmare for me. I pretty much stayed in the bathroom for the entire time I was on it. You may need a second medication or insulin. I would keep a log of what you eat and what your numbers are and give it to your endo.

 

[DaisyDay]

I pretty much stayed in the bathroom for the entire time I was on it.

Could that be the reason for the Immodium I need to take or else?

 

[Hopes]

Could that be the reason for the Immodium I need to take or else?

Yes it could. I will try not to be graphic but there were days I could not leave the house for fear of, well you understand. As soon as I was off that stuff I went back to normal so I know it was what caused the diarrhea.

My dr wanted to but me on some extended release metformin. She said it was better for the diarrhea but I said no and that I wanted to go on insulin instead so she sent me to an endo. I did not do well with the pills at all. Pancreatitis is not something you ever want to deal with, trust me.

Insulin is so much better. The shots hurt less than the finger sticks to take blood glucose if you ask me. Sometimes they burn a little but in all I like it much better than the pills.

 

[DaisyDay]

My dr wanted to but me on some extended release metformin.

Maybe I should try that.

Metformin, apart from that problem, has been fine. It seems to have some other benefits as well - people, non-diabetics, have started using it "recreationally" as it has proven to give flatworms a really long life.