David and Jonathan...

[catlover]

[FONT=&quot]Why is it so difficult for us to believe that a man can love another man without it being sexual. Why do we always equate sex with love too? Look at monks, they commit themselves to their brothers and Christ forever. I am sure most of them love their brothers (and hopefully Christ)! What is the obsession with sex on CF? [/FONT]

Sexual frustration!!!

 

[intricatic]

Sexual frustration!!!

Hmm.. I hope that's not all there is to it.

 

[PinkTulip]

Good answer!

 

[DMagoh]

That is HIGHLY inaccurate. I can say the same thing about masturbation. PROVE IT ISN'T A SIN!!!!!!!!!

There's NOTHING in the Bible about masturbation. I can prove it by there being nothing in the Bible even addressing it. Homosexuality, on the other hand, you have to try to explain away many verses.

 

[david_x]

There are things that can be taken vulgarly, but they're often taken by shock and then passed over as a result. If you study some of those things, you learn a lot about why they happened. Christianity is a very real religion in that it doesn't avoid those topics. We might, but the Bible doesn't.

Amen

There's NOTHING in the Bible about masturbation. I can prove it by there being nothing in the Bible even addressing it. Homosexuality, on the other hand, you have to try to explain away many verses

Umm actually...

"go outside the camp to relieve your self."

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Amen



Umm actually...

"go outside the camp to relieve your self."

Too much information

 

[DMagoh]

Amen



Umm actually...

"go outside the camp to relieve your self."

12 Designate a place outside the camp where you can go to relieve yourself. 13 As part of your equipment have something to dig with, and when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement. Deuteronomy 23:12-13

You should have included the next verse.

 

[davedjy]

There's NOTHING in the Bible about masturbation. I can prove it by there being nothing in the Bible even addressing it. Homosexuality, on the other hand, you have to try to explain away many verses.

There is no mention in the Bible about pornography, either. Do we need to 2nd guess it?

I didn't have to "explain away" any verses to arrive at my conclusions on homosexuality.

 

[gwdboi]

Look very carefully at the sentence structure. I know it might be difficult to miss, so I'll point it out.

41 As soon as the lad had gone, David arose from a place toward the south, fell on his face to the ground, and bowed down three times. And they kissed one another; and they wept together, but David more so.
(1 Samuel 20, NKJV)

41The youth hath gone, and David hath risen from Ezel, at the south, and falleth on his face to the earth, and boweth himself three times, and they kiss one another, and they weep one with another, till David exerted himself;
(1 Samuel 20, YLT)

41When the lad was gone, David rose from the south side and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed three times And they kissed each other and wept together, but David wept the more.
(1 Samuel 20, NASB)

The word itself I've already posted in Strong's. The sentence works like this;


1Sa 20:41 [And] as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of [a place] toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three time and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.

Listen, if you want to get sarcastic, that's your own prerogative, I'm actually trying to have a conversation here.
NOW, what I was referring to was the literal translation of the verse:

Then David kissed Jonathan until David became great.

WHERE IS THE CRYING THERE?????

Now, we can understand this to carry sexual connotations, even though it's an obvious anachronism to do so considering there are reasonable customs within the ANE culture that testify to the normative quality of the actions taking place here, but speaking hypothetically, we could do so. If we speculate this is the case, there needs to be a subject that "exceeded" refers to - which there needs to be, regardless of what kind of connotations this passage carries. As I pointed out, the word is This in Hebrew. The subject which takes value in the text is presented below. One from a western mindset might read "kissed" to be a sexual connotation, but that isn't how the original language would have understood it. I say this based on the clear evidence that this is not how the original language understood it.

Yet again... why should I take your word for it?

We're not braindead.

up for debate lol

What disturbs me is that so many people are willing to read western thoughts into the Bible so vulgarly.

BEWARE... the western thoughts are coming, the western thoughts are coming.

It's just thought in general, get over it.

 

[david_x]

There is no mention in the Bible about pornography, either. Do we need to 2nd guess it?

"do not look at a woman with lust."

 

[savedandhappy1]

"do not look at a woman with lust."

So can we look at a man with lust, or do we have to 2nd. guess it?​

 

[intricatic]

Listen, if you want to get sarcastic, that's your own prerogative, I'm actually trying to have a conversation here.
NOW, what I was referring to was the literal translation of the verse:

Then David kissed Jonathan until David became great.

WHERE IS THE CRYING THERE?????

I don't get sarcastic, but I get slightly irate when I'm presented with arguments like this. What is it talking about if not the exceeding quality of David's weeping? Seriously. Reason it out for a moment and think about it. There are no other alternatives but "David wept more" or "David kissed Jonathan more" or "...until David was exhausted.". If we take "...until David was exhausted.", what was exhausted?

Yet again... why should I take your word for it?

You shouldn't. You should do some actual critical research into the text instead of believing what some nut out there has to say about it because he's obsessed with human sexuality.

up for debate lol

Aww, you're too kind.

BEWARE... the western thoughts are coming, the western thoughts are coming.

It's just thought in general, get over it.

I'm not under it.

 

[gwdboi]

I don't get sarcastic, but I get slightly irate when I'm presented with arguments like this. What is it talking about if not the exceeding quality of David's weeping? Seriously. Reason it out for a moment and think about it. There are no other alternatives but "David wept more" or "David kissed Jonathan more" or "...until David was exhausted.". If we take "...until David was exhausted.", what was exhausted?




You shouldn't. You should do some actual critical research into the text instead of believing what some nut out there has to say about it because he's obsessed with human sexuality.




Aww, you're too kind.





I'm not under it.

Aye,

I'm weary of this... let's just agree to disagree.
Go with God.

 

[gwdboi]

There's NOTHING in the Bible about masturbation. I can prove it by there being nothing in the Bible even addressing it. Homosexuality, on the other hand, you have to try to explain away many verses.

Many verses? Lets make a reasonable guess at about 20 verses seemingly against homosexuality.

Time for some math:

20 verses out of 31,240 total verses in the Bible

that's 0.0006402 % of the total Bible... um... not "many" verses if you ask me.

 

[davedjy]

Aye,

I'm weary of this... let's just agree to disagree.
Go with God.

He is Babble Boy...he will "babble" till the end.

 

[david_x]

So can we look at a man with lust, or do we have to 2nd. guess it?

Yes yes your hilarious.

So.. that is porn right.

 

[intricatic]

Aye,

I'm weary of this... let's just agree to disagree.
Go with God.

I don't mean to sound obstinate about this topic, but it's blatantly obvious that the text isn't carrying a sexual connotation if you take some time to read about the culture, that helps to get your mind into the frame of reference needed to understand a lot of the weird things in the Bible. Judaism operated within the stream of block logic, not linear logic, so we tend to run into the text like a ton of bricks. Coupled with the fact that we don't view sexuality the same as we did even fifty years ago, it's hard to interpret something regarding sexuality in the Bible by our current understanding of it. In other words, if you start off looking for a certain thing in the Bible, the chances are, you'll find it even if it's not really there. The point of reading the Bible should be to understand it, not to prove some extrabiblical idea by the Biblical text.

 

[intricatic]

He is Babble Boy...he will "babble" till the end.

Hey now, I may babble, but babbling is a fun pasttime. You should try it sometime.

 

[ScottBot]

The tone of this thread is going downhill. Please remember that in your quest for truth and honesty, charity and respect are not suggestions, They are requirements.