David and Jonathan...

[eastcoast_bsc]

Projecting what? My weird and highly unusual culture's concept of homosexuality onto a culture that didn't see it the same way?

That would be too easy. I'd rather study the culture itself to see what kind of disconnects our culture has when reading about this topic.

Have you stripped off your Robe for any guys lately?

 

[phoenixgw]

You can't help but notice the gradual acceptance of homosexuality in our churches, theology, & literature. I suspect that it is only a matter of time before someone slips in the line, "I wish I knew how to quit you!" into the David/Jonathan dialogue. Can the Great Tribulation come soon enough?

If this happens in your church, I strongly suggest that you "come out of her," as is commanded in Revelation 18:4. I believe that time is running out for the Christian Church here on earth. There was no such acceptance of homosexuality in OT worship circles, only stoning.

Any intimation of David's character, if one feels the need, should be done in light of his entire life as recorded in Scripture. When David is described in the Bible as a man after God's own heart, does that indicate to you that God the Father was gay too? Wake up!!!

I pray that the Holy Spirit quickens the elect, lest they perish.

 

[lmnop9876]

You can't help but notice the gradual acceptance of homosexuality in our churches, theology, & literature. I suspect that it is only a matter of time before someone slips in the line, "I wish I knew how to quit you!" into the David/Jonathan dialogue. Can the Great Tribulation come soon enough?

If this happens in your church, I strongly suggest that you "come out of her," as is commanded in Revelation 18:4. I believe that time is running out for the Christian Church here on earth. There was no such acceptance of homosexuality in OT worship circles, only stoning.

Any intimation of David's character, if one feels the need, should be done in light of his entire life as recorded in Scripture. When David is described in the Bible as a man after God's own heart, does that indicate to you that God the Father was gay too? Wake up!!!

I pray that the Holy Spirit quickens the elect, lest they perish.

as far as I have always been taught and understand the Bible, God is neither gay nor straight. He is a Spirit with no gender nor sexuality.

for hundreds of years many (not all, but many) western Christians were taught and believed that slavery on the basis of skin colour was Biblical and not unethical, if not even good and necessary. it was not until people began to evaluate this belief in the light of Scripture, reason, and what is revealed of the character of Christ God that they realised their racially-based slavery was wrong (and even then deep-seated prejudices remained among many professing Christians). that is why we must continually re-evaluate our ethics and values in the light of the Will of God, particularly when they affect our attitudes towards millions of people who we are commanded to love as our own selves.

 

[intricatic]

Have you stripped off your Robe for any guys lately?

I haven't been in the position of meeting someone who was anointed to be the next king of Israel yet, so nope.

(Symbolic - Jonathan gives David his robe and weapons sort of to say "I proclaim that you are king over me", giving up his own position)

 

[intricatic]

as far as I have always been taught and understand the Bible, God is neither gay nor straight. He is a Spirit with no gender nor sexuality.

for hundreds of years many (not all, but many) western Christians were taught and believed that slavery on the basis of skin colour was Biblical and not unethical, if not even good and necessary. it was not until people began to evaluate this belief in the light of Scripture, reason, and what is revealed of the character of Christ God that they realised their racially-based slavery was wrong (and even then deep-seated prejudices remained among many professing Christians). that is why we must continually re-evaluate our ethics and values in the light of the Will of God, particularly when they affect our attitudes towards millions of people who we are commanded to love as our own selves.

I agree, to an extent. However, people will always use the Bible to justify things that give them some economic benefit. Slavery obviously enhanced the economic position of slave owners quite a bit, thus adding the layer of interpreting scripture to meet that end despite the obvious implications of why Christ was sent to mankind - to free slaves. There's also that whole tidbit about Israel in Babylonian captivity, the Exodus....etc....

But the bottom line is that homosexuality doesn't provide these same motivators. Either the people disagreeing with homosexuality are just doing so to be hard-headed, fearful of anything different, or they're doing it for a significant reason that's implicit in Biblical texts, and not out of any spite or condemnation of homosexuals as people. In that, there's obviously going to be some of both; people who do it out of reverence for sacred texts and the theology presented therein, and those who do it out of spite and fear, but that doesn't justify simply black-listing the whole lot of them just because some people agree with the Biblical condemnation of homosexuality out of their own spite and hatred of gay people.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

"I proclaim that you are king over me", giving up his own position

Has a gay-er phrase ever apeared on CF?

 

[intricatic]

Has a gay-er phrase ever apeared on CF?

Ah the eyes of Western culture. My cat even thinks that's ironic....

 

[david_x]

ANE cultures commonly saw this as a display of affection between two men, nothing sexual, but our culture sees a sexual connotation on the terms involved simply because it's what we see as common in our society. I think we have a weird phobia of one another in our culture now that hasn't historically existed in other cultures due to this pseudo-acceptance of homosexuality - people are afraid of being seen as 'gay' for doing something commonly held to be within the realm of 'gayness'.

In the dominican republic women hold hands (laced) and walk down the street. Kids in my own school get very close. I actually question some of this but it is mostly straight stuff.

 

[intricatic]

In the dominican republic women hold hands (laced) and walk down the street. Kids in my own school get very close. I actually question some of this but it is mostly straight stuff.

Well, that's the ironic part. Women are socially permitted to display affection to eachother, and to men without it being too much of a taboo action, but men are discouraged from doing so out of fear of being seen as too feminine. That's not how it's historically been.

 

[david_x]

Well, that's the ironic part. Women are socially permitted to display affection to eachother, and to men without it being too much of a taboo action, but men are discouraged from doing so out of fear of being seen as too feminine. That's not how it's historically been.

And yet if two guys do somthing afectionate you can't help but wander can you.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Ah the eyes of Western culture. My cat even thinks that's ironic....

Your Cat is a big sinner, it is obvious that he has been doing a lot of Coke. ha ha hoo hoo, I kill myself

 

[intricatic]

Your Cat is a big sinner, it is obvious that he has been doing a lot of Coke. ha ha hoo hoo, I kill myself

She's a coke-head, what can I say?

And yet if two guys do somthing afectionate you can't help but wander can you.

It's a cultural stereotype. It's probably one of the more novel cultural stereotypes in the history of the world, to boot.

 

[Rion]

They were best friends. Jesus had the same friendship with John. Modern day showings of this is Suikoden II. Riou and Jowy are best friends, willing to die for each other, but they're definitely not gay.

 

[Rion]

as far as I have always been taught and understand the Bible, God is neither gay nor straight. He is a Spirit with no gender nor sexuality.

God refers to Himself as He, and to Israel and the Church as His Bride. Just saying...

 

[PinkTulip]

[FONT=&quot]Why is it so difficult for us to believe that a man can love another man without it being sexual. Why do we always equate sex with love too? Look at monks, they commit themselves to their brothers and Christ forever. I am sure most of them love their brothers (and hopefully Christ)! What is the obsession with sex on CF? [/FONT]

 

[intricatic]

[FONT=&quot]Why is it so difficult for us to believe that a man can love another man without it being sexual. Why do we always equate sex with love too? Look at monks, they commit themselves to their brothers and Christ forever. I am sure most of them love their brothers (and hopefully Christ)! What is the obsession with sex on CF? [/FONT]

What is the obsession the world has with sex anymore?

It's like you can't leave the house without being bombarded with images of it everywhere.

 

[david_x]

What is the obsession with sex on CF?

We're human

 

[DMagoh]

There was no such acceptance of homosexuality in OT worship circles, only stoning.

Can anyone point out ONE male Biblical character that the Bible says "lay with", "knew", or "had intercourse with" another male Biblical cahracter?

Hmmmm, ....either homosexuality is sin, or God must discriminate against holy gay people since He didnt call any of them to be an important person in the Bible. God must not be politially correct!

 

[intricatic]

Can anyone point out ONE male Biblical character that the Bible says "lay with", "knew", or "had intercourse with" another male Biblical cahracter?

Hmmmm, ....either homosexuality is sin, or God must discriminate against holy gay people since He didnt call any of them to be an important person in the Bible. God must not be politially correct!

No, by all available evidence, God does not support democracy either.

 

[Joykins]

I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women


I find this statement really intriguing.

I don't think it identifies David as gay or straight, but it says a lot about the strength of his love for Jonathan and also the way David feels about women. Their love is inferior. We are talking here about a man with a harem and a lot of family rivalries causing him political problems later in life.