Date of the Resurrection

[SpiritPsalmist]

So then are you saying that God wants us to celebrate the resurrection on a specific date? Scripture please?

No. There is scripture though where HE says "I do not want you using the celebrations of the pagans to worship me". Not saying that "YOU" are but many do. My question was to everyone in general, not YOU personally.

Of course not.

But one of those things is not the date of the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I agree. However, HE does say "do not use the pagan ways of worship in worship of me". Maybe you personally are not, and my question was posed to all in general.

As I've already said earlier in this thread, if that is your conviction, then live it. I'm not begrudging your celebration of the resurrection on the date that you choose. However, you don't seem willing to extend the same courtesy to those of us who feel absolutely no conviction about celebrating the resurrection on Easter Sunday.

Easter is derived from the name Eshtar, a pagan goddess. Why does the church have a celebration of Jesus conquering death and not use HIS name?

I have not told you anywhere where you must stop and change to another date. On the other hand I've been told I'm in a foxhole and attacking people and not doing the will of God when all I've done is ask questions and pose my thoughts as to why I'm questioning. No one has yet given a reasonable answer as to why the church continues to observe their cause for celebration on the same day and with the same name as a pagan goddess. We are free to do whatever we want to. But we can't expect that everything we want, is the same as what God wants.

But you've not illustrated that at all. There is much debate over when the resurrection actually occurred. And IMO, it's complete frivolity to try and pinpoint the exact date of the resurrection.

However, if it is important to you, then by all means search it out, but what I am saying is that it's not right for you to impose your personal convictions on others concerning the date of the resurrection.

I simply asked a question and then gave the reasonings that I'm grappling with. I asked "why?". My illustration was what God brought to my attention when I posed the reasoning to Him that "that is not what it means to me God". I have imposed nothing on you or anyone else. Perhaps it's the Holy Spirit.

And I've already told you that Easter means nothing of the sort to me. It is a special day to remember the victorious resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The name Easter is derived from the name of a pagan goddess.

And as I've said, if that is your conviction, then don't celebrate it that way.

I have no such conviction. I find it far more important to rejoice that JESUS IS ALIVE than I do in worrying about the date on the calendar it happened.

I'm not worried at all about the date. I'm just wondering why the church is choosing to do it on the pagan date with the same pagan name. Why did they not choose the third Sunday in July, calling it Resurrection Day? Why did they choose Easter and why do they call it Easter when Easter is a pagan goddess? I don't care whatever other date could have been chosen but they chose Easter....why?

Why is asking a question so threatening? It's very tough reasoning with people here. I'm not wanting a particular date to be celebrated I'm wondering why the date we do is the date it is?

 

[probinson]

No. There is scripture though where HE says "I do not want you using the celebrations of the pagans to worship me". Not saying that "YOU" are but many do. My question was to everyone in general, not YOU personally.

OK, but as some discussion has illustrated in this thread, it's not been shown clearly that the date of the resurrection is founded in pagan roots.

I agree. However, HE does say "do not use the pagan ways of worship in worship of me". Maybe you personally are not, and my question was posed to all in general.

I understand that.

However, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that celebrating something completely different on a specific date is "us[ing] the pagan ways of Worship".

Easter is derived from the name Eshtar, a pagan goddess. Why does the church have a celebration of Jesus conquering death and not use HIS name?

"Passover" doesn't use HIS name either. What would you like to call the celebration of Jesus' resurrection?

I have not told you anywhere where you must stop and change to another date.

Not directly. But you've stated repeatedly that God doesn't want us (in general) to celebrate Easter.

On the other hand I've been told I'm in a foxhole and attacking people and not doing the will of God when all I've done is ask questions and pose my thoughts as to why I'm questioning.

True, but not by me.

No one has yet given a reasonable answer as to why the church continues to observe their cause for celebration on the same day and with the same name as a pagan goddess. We are free to do whatever we want to. But we can't expect that everything we want, is the same as what God wants.

See? There it is again; the implication is that our celebration of the resurrection is not "the same as what God wants". It's one thing to ask questions. It's quite another to imply one's worship of God is somehow inferior because it occurs on the wrong calendar date.

I simply asked a question and then gave the reasonings that I'm grappling with. I asked "why?". My illustration was what God brought to my attention when I posed the reasoning to Him that "that is not what it means to me God". I have imposed nothing on you or anyone else. Perhaps it's the Holy Spirit.

And there it is yet again! Now, perhaps we're displeasing God, or we're celebrating in a way that God doesn't want us to, or maybe the Holy Spirit is trying to correct you... but I'm not imposing anything on you.

The name Easter is derived from the name of a pagan goddess.

I know. You've said that a lot. That's the second time in this post even...

I'm not worried at all about the date. I'm just wondering why the church is choosing to do it on the pagan date with the same pagan name. Why did they not choose July 20th and call it Resurrection Day? Why did they choose Easter and why do they call it Easter when Easter is a pagan goddess? I don't care whatever other date could have been chosen but they chose Easter....why?

Why is asking a question so threatening? I'm not wanting a particular date to be celebrated I'm wondering why the date we do is the date it is?

But that's not all you're doing. If that's all you were doing, then I would probably stay out of the discussion entirely. It doesn't interest me, but I see absolutely no harm in asking those valid questions if that is your conviction.

But when comments start flying about how God is maybe displeased with people's sincere worship, and how maybe God doesn't like the date we're celebrating His Son's resurrection, then it becomes far more than simply asking a question, and that is what I am responding to.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

OK, but as some discussion has illustrated in this thread, it's not been shown clearly that the date of the resurrection is founded in pagan roots.

The resurrection isn't founded in pagan roots. Easter is.

I understand that.

However, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that celebrating something completely different on a specific date is "us[ing] the pagan ways of Worship".

Maybe it is maybe it isn't. What if it is?

"Passover" doesn't use HIS name either. What would you like to call the celebration of Jesus' resurrection?

Passover is not the name of a pagan goddess. Easter is.

Not directly. But you've stated repeatedly that God doesn't want us (in general) to celebrate Easter.

It's true. God does not want us to celebrate pagan holidays. The day Jesus resurrected has nothing to do with Easter.

True, but not by me.

True, but you are pretty defensive.

See? There it is again; the implication is that our celebration of the resurrection is not "the same as what God wants". It's one thing to ask questions. It's quite another to imply one's worship of God is somehow inferior because it occurs on the wrong calendar date.

Maybe it isn't what God wants. Maybe it is. What if it's not? What if He does not like HIS day being called by the name of another god. I don't think anyone's worship of God is inferior. It does not matter what I or anyone other than God thinks. What does God think about our calling His day by the name of another god?

And there it is yet again! Now, perhaps we're displeasing God, or we're celebrating in a way that God doesn't want us to, or maybe the Holy Spirit is trying to correct you... but I'm not imposing anything on you.

Is it wrong to pose questions and thoughts that cause others to check themselves before the Lord and ask HIM what HE thinks? If He gives the go ahead then by all means go ahead with what you're doing. I'm not forcing anyone to take my view.

But that's not all you're doing. If that's all you were doing, then I would probably stay out of the discussion entirely. It doesn't interest me, but I see absolutely no harm in asking those valid questions if that is your conviction.

But when comments start flying about how God is maybe displeased with people's sincere worship, and how maybe God doesn't like the date we're celebrating His Son's resurrection, then it becomes far more than simply asking a question, and that is what I am responding to.

I think you're seeing things in my comments that are not there. You've become defensive when there is no need to be.

 

[Svt4Him]

This is why I don't eat meat sacrificed to animals. Oh wait...

Preach the Bible, live your convictions. It's not mature to preach your convictions and have that assume you're holy, despite what some 'more mature christians' think. But if you feel that it is wrong, don't do it. Dr. Dobson use to talk about how he was brought up with the belief you couldn't do sports on Sundays. One day he did something that he felt conviction on, as he violated his conviction. Is it sin to play sports on Sunday? I don't think so. Was it sin to him? Probably because his conscience convicted him. If he told me that playing sports on Sunday is sin because pagans did it and actually killed Christians whille doing it, does it make me mature if I stop playing sports? What if the church preached against if for 300 years, does it make a difference? Nope.

And do I think God minds calling Venus Venus? Should we rename the planets?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

And do I think God minds calling Venus Venus? Should we rename the planets?

Ah, but what if you prayed in the name of Venus or called resurrection day Venus Sunday? Do you think God would have have an issue with that?

You've missed my question entirely.

 

[Svt4Him]

Oh, but who prays in the name of Easter? But you still miss my point then make a huge leap, although it does make me wonder how you can make such a correlation between calling something easter and praying to easter. Does God mind you calling a planet He created with His word Venus? Do you think God would have an issue with you if you did that? Because it's not that God has random issues or has insecurity issues, so the issue God would have is with you or me in your example. Do I think God has an issue with me saying easter? No I don't, and beleive it or not, we're going to play sports on Sunday, my son has a game. Is it sin to me? Nope. Then we can see if we can get a new venus fly trap, although I don't think they're out yet.

The amazing thing is Christ in me is my hope of glory, not the correct non-offensive names of the planets.

 

[Svt4Him]

Actually birthdays are of pagan origin also. Many in the early church refused to celebrate birthdays out of Christian conviction . It's public knowledge. Look it up.

This is a fallacy, called shifting the burdon of proof. Look it up.

 

[Yitzchak]

This is a fallacy, called shifting the burdon of proof. Look it up.

Some things are just what they seem at face value.

 

[Yitzchak]

And do I think God minds calling Venus Venus? Should we rename the planets?

Yes , you really should , if you are planning on using that planet as a corporate offering of worship to God over and over again.

That is the reason why we don't see churches vote to name their new church the center for worshiping Zeus. Names have a meaning and are important. The Bible teaches the importance of names from cover to cover. It even says we will be given a new name in heaven.

Would you like to mock Saul for changing his name to Paul ? Or perhaps Avram and Sarai . Or Jacob ?? Do you consider their name changes to be silly or frivolous ?

God's name is important too. It made it into one of the Ten Commandments.


There are hundreds of scriptures where names are important.

Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

We are not Baptised in the name of just anyone.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

People say in the name of Jesus when they pray.


It is not biblical to think that names are not important. Verses like this one are all over the place in the bible.

Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

How do planets and their moons get their names?

The official names of planets and their moons are governed by an organization called the International Astronomical Union (IAU). The IAU was established in 1919. Its mission is "to promote and safeguard the science of astronomy in all its aspects through international cooperation". Its individual members are professional astronomers from all over the World. The IAU is the internationally recognized authority for assigning names to celestial bodies and any surface features on them.

The IAU recognizes that astronomy is an old science and many of its names come from long-standing traditions and/or are founded in history. For many of the names of the objects in the solar system, this is especially so. Most of the objects in our solar system received names long ago based on Greek or Roman mythology. The IAU has therefore adopted this tradition in its rules for naming certain types of objects in the solar system.

Venus is the Roman goddess of love and beauty. The planet is aptly named since it makes a beautiful sight in the sky, with only the Sun and the Moon being brighter.

I for one , do not want to perform my worship to God in the name of the goddess Venus.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

This is a fallacy, called shifting the burdon of proof. Look it up.

After I read here that birthday celebrations were of pagan origin, I did look it up. I was surprised to find out that it's true that the early church did not celebrate birthdays.

Birthdays are mentioned only 3 times in the Bible and each time something terrible happened. The first time was when Pharaoh executed his chief baker at his birthday celebration in Gen 40:1-23.

The second time is in Job. In chap 1:4 the Bible says that Job’s seven sons “went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them” These parties were obviously not centered around any kind of celebration related to God, or Job would not have worried that his children may have sinned during these celebration feasts. He was not exactly sure what was going on in their minds, but the very celebration of their birthdays triggered great concern in him (1:5). Apparently, during the birthday party of Job’s oldest son, God allowed Satan to kill all ten of Job’s children through what appears to be a tornado (vs. 6-13, 18-19).

The third time was Herod when at his birthday celebration, he ordered the beheading of John the Baptist (Matt 14:3-11).

I thought, dang, I've always liked celebrating my birthday.

Now at this point in time I don't think it's wrong to recognize people on their birthdays, however, it's true that the early church did not....look at all those "begats", with no begattin' dates.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Oh, but who prays in the name of Easter? But you still miss my point then make a huge leap, although it does make me wonder how you can make such a correlation between calling something easter and praying to easter. Does God mind you calling a planet He created with His word Venus? Do you think God would have an issue with you if you did that? Because it's not that God has random issues or has insecurity issues, so the issue God would have is with you or me in your example. Do I think God has an issue with me saying easter? No I don't, and beleive it or not, we're going to play sports on Sunday, my son has a game. Is it sin to me? Nope. Then we can see if we can get a new venus fly trap, although I don't think they're out yet.

The amazing thing is Christ in me is my hope of glory, not the correct non-offensive names of the planets.

My question was regarding "why do the believers not blaze our own trail with Jesus at the head instead of all these lesser gods at the head"? The early church blazed their own trail. Rome came in and trampled on it, changed it, and we've settled with it ever since. We're free now yet continue to settle with the same dates. Why?

That's all I'm asking. We don't have an oppressor over us anymore telling us to do it his way or else. I'm only asking "why?". People are free to celebrate whatever, whenever. I'm just wanting to know why the particular dates it is done on were chosen and why they continue to be done on those dates .

I'm reminded of the time I worked in a small office. The owners wanted me to be able to make decisions they would make. In order for me to do this I always asked "why" they did something. What was their reasoning to come to that conclusion. My boss took those questions as a challenge and was upset at me. However, it was not a challenge. I merely wanted to understand how they came to their conclusions. With this topic here, I don't think most have even considered the question. We've just followed the crowd. Maybe to our own stumbling.

I don't know. That's why I'm asking the question.

 

[Markus6]

Maybe it isn't what God wants. Maybe it is. What if it's not? What if He does not like HIS day being called by the name of another god. I don't think anyone's worship of God is inferior. It does not matter what I or anyone other than God thinks. What does God think about our calling His day by the name of another god?

Every day is the Lord's day. Have you renamed the days of the week so as not to use the names of the Germanic gods Tiw, Wodan, Thor and Frige?

No one believes in Eostre anymore. In popular understanding the word Easter no longer has any connection to a goddess. So do I think God minds? Nope, I am convinced - after study, prayer and thought - that he is not. I continue to read your arguments but they do not sway me.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Every day is the Lord's day. Have you renamed the days of the week so as not to use the names of the Germanic gods Tiw, Wodan, Thor and Frige?

No one believes in Eostre anymore. In popular understanding the word Easter no longer has any connection to a goddess. So do I think God minds? Nope, I am convinced - after study, prayer and thought - that he is not. I continue to read your arguments but they do not sway me.

I'm not trying to sway you. I'm only asking why do we do what we do. Like in the math class when we are asked to write down how we came to our conclusion.

Thought: if no one believes in her anymore, why do we keep her name alive and use it in connection with Jesus? It's a sincere question. Why do we do that? What is the reasoning that brings us to that conclusion? Are believers unable to give a reasoning for why we do what we do?

 

[gratefulgrace]

Originally Posted by Svt4Him

And do I think God minds calling Venus Venus? Should we rename the planets?

Response by Yitzchak
​

Yes , you really should , if you are planning on using that planet as a corporate offering of worship to God over and over again.

That is the reason why we don't see churches vote to name their new church the center for worshiping Zeus. Names have a meaning and are important. The Bible teaches the importance of names from cover to cover. It even says we will be given a new name in heaven.

Would you like to mock Saul for changing his name to Paul ? Or perhaps Avram and Sarai . Or Jacob ?? Do you consider their name changes to be silly or frivolous ?

God's name is important too. It made it into one of the Ten Commandments.


There are hundreds of scriptures where names are important.

Well then using the name Jesus is suspect because it is A greek pagan languages idea of that name. And even Yaweh is wrong as strick Hebrews were forbidden from writing the name and had to manipulate it somehow so as not to offend God. We must use the tetragrammaton..

Tetragrammaton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No now what are we to do? Do you think God was using something such as emphasizing that His Holy Name is to be treated carefully to get the point across, I AM HOLY. Or is the tetragrammaton a man made idea? IS He simply saying Pay attention and listen to me.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

So, there are a lot of things we already know about our "christian" practices but have only chosen to go along with them instead of changing them. Hmmm. As the scripture says, we all are like sheep.

 

[psalms 91]

I question why once enlightened we continue with it. I also wonder why Passover and Feast of Tabrinacles which God commanded to be kept forever are considered Jewish? They are Gods feasts and are not exclusive to the Jewish but are for anyone desiring to please God.

 

[Yitzchak]

Originally Posted by Svt4Him

And do I think God minds calling Venus Venus? Should we rename the planets?

Response by Yitzchak
​

Yes , you really should , if you are planning on using that planet as a corporate offering of worship to God over and over again.

That is the reason why we don't see churches vote to name their new church the center for worshiping Zeus. Names have a meaning and are important. The Bible teaches the importance of names from cover to cover. It even says we will be given a new name in heaven.

Would you like to mock Saul for changing his name to Paul ? Or perhaps Avram and Sarai . Or Jacob ?? Do you consider their name changes to be silly or frivolous ?

God's name is important too. It made it into one of the Ten Commandments.


There are hundreds of scriptures where names are important.

Well then using the name Jesus is suspect because it is A greek pagan languages idea of that name. And even Yaweh is wrong as strick Hebrews were forbidden from writing the name and had to manipulate it somehow so as not to offend God. We must use the tetragrammaton..

Tetragrammaton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No now what are we to do? Do you think God was using something such as emphasizing that His Holy Name is to be treated carefully to get the point across, I AM HOLY. Or is the tetragrammaton a man made idea? IS He simply saying Pay attention and listen to me.

I'm just curious. What goes through your mind when you are typing these sarcastic responses ?


Should I be taking these as sincere questions or as rhetorical questions and sarcasm ? It seems to me that this is just tit for tat at this point and not even a real discussion anymore.

 

[Yitzchak]

Every day is the Lord's day. Have you renamed the days of the week so as not to use the names of the Germanic gods Tiw, Wodan, Thor and Frige?

No one believes in Eostre anymore. In popular understanding the word Easter no longer has any connection to a goddess. So do I think God minds? Nope, I am convinced - after study, prayer and thought - that he is not. I continue to read your arguments but they do not sway me.

When we speak about Easter , we are speaking about a corporate celebration that selects a specific day and sets it apart form the other days as a day when we emphasize Easter celebrations.


My question to you is how do you interpret or understand the phrase " everyday is The Lord's day ". Because in my thinking if I go with the everyday is The Lord's day option , that leaves no room for any holidays.

I mean what is different about Easter than any other day. Or what is different about your birthday from any other day. The scripture in Romans 14 says that some treat every day the same. To me that means every day is the same. Once we start setting up special days , we are no longer treating every day the same.

 

[gratefulgrace]

I'm just curious. What goes through your mind when you are typing these sarcastic responses ?


Should I be taking these as sincere questions or as rhetorical questions and sarcasm ? It seems to me that this is just tit for tat at this point and not even a real discussion anymore.

I am sorry they come across as sarcastic. They are not intended so. (the weakness of internet verses face to face) They are serious questions in my mind. You said names are important and we should rename the planets should we also rename the days of the week. What do you think. For me I am just taking your statements and progressing them forward to encompass all the situations that may displease God.
Of course you know I reject all of this and the reason I do is based on my understanding of grace vs works. The legalist will always find something wrong with anothers faith practise in my experience. And yes I have been in the role of legalist at times and have been corrected by the Holy Spirit about it. gg

 

[probinson]

I think you're seeing things in my comments that are not there. You've become defensive when there is no need to be.

I think you're seeing defensiveness where there is none.

Also, it's not only your comments in this thread, so I would say that some of my response (to you) was influenced by other's comments as well, and not by things you said directly.

The truth is, this issue doesn't bother me in the least. I'm quite assured that God has no issue with me getting up on Easter Sunday and, on that day especially, remembering His Love sacrifice. But I've run across people who feel unnecessarily condemned and made to feel inferior by others because they don't celebrate Passover, or because they color Easter eggs, or because they give their kids a chocolate bunny....

With all of that in mind, I remember this verse;

Romans 14:5 (AMP)
One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike [sacred]. Let everyone be fully convinced (satisfied) in his own mind.
​

This has long been my position on matters like this. This scripture seems to say pretty clearly that each person should be convinced or satisfied in his own mind. IOW, it's not really that big of a deal what days we esteem and which ones we don't. Each person is granted the grace and liberty to be fully convinced in their own mind of such matters.

Note that it's not wrong to esteem one day higher than another, nor is it wrong to esteem all days equally. But the key here is that each person should be convinced in their own mind, not that they push that conviction on someone else.

That's why I say that scripture is quite clear that there is some liberty in these matters. Some people would argue that it's wrong to observe Passover (because it's part of the "law''). I disagree. As long as you're convinced in your own mind that this is what God wants you to do, then do it for His glory. Some people would argue that it's wrong to observe Easter. I disagree. As long as you're convinced in your own mind that this is what God wants you to do, then do it for His glory.