Dashed in pieces

[Timmothy]

If God is omnipotent, as claimed, Timmothy, He could have achieved that end in countless less violent ways.Why didn't He?

God did achieve this in a less violent way. I explained it in my last post
Gods rules were just getting Ironed out. People weren't really taking the rules seriously. God gave warnings. People keep sinning. God would not be mocked by his creation. So he orders them to death because of the corruption that could be passed on to the others. Yes God is omnipotent. God created us with Freewill, but he also created the law. Which in this case those people kept breaking.
Here is a question for everyone on this thread. What would you do if you had this power? Would you let these rapest, killers, lairs, and ect go free? These people were warned repeatly to stop. But they loved their sin so much that they would not stop.

 

[Gott]

Well here is a theory, If God was to let those people live they could of Corrupt man at the time, and Gods word would of not made it this far. So killing a small group of people that rebelled against God is better than killing millions of people that could of rebelled against God.

In other words Gods word was dependent on "man" and not God.
God "couldn't" have his preserved his word if God hadn't performed genocide on a small group of people.
Sorry but do you know how funny this sounds?

 

[Gott]

If they claimed what was spoken by Allah? If they claimed it was ok for 2 million women a year to rip their baby from their womb and destory it?

The question is, what lines up with the Bible and what contradicts the Bible. The Bible is the final authority, no matter what you are looking at. The Bible is the standard that we use to measure the truth.

The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. So if people sin, then they can expect that the result of that is going to be death.

C'mon John, you keep avoiding answering the question of "Yes" or "No"
Why is that John?
I think you know the reason why.
Since you "claim" the bible is final authority, no matter what your looking at, why can't you answer the question
If the muslims claimed this was spoken by Allah, would you condone such acts Yes or No.

 

[Timmothy]

In other words Gods word was dependent on "man" and not God.
God "couldn't" have his preserved his word if God hadn't performed genocide on a small group of people.
Sorry but do you know how funny this sounds?

I could sit here and give you scriptures you and I dont understand, and just twist and mold your question into nothing. But I think I gave a reasonable answer. It is plan and simple. I think God works in simple and plan ways. I think people makes God choices to be more complicated than they really are. So what God uses his creation to get a job done. That would not make God anyless of a God. I am pretty sure God is pretty straight forward. I mean hell he gave us the Bible. It tells you what happen, what is going to happen, and what laws to obey by. What more do you need?

 

[Lanakila]

I think the simple answer is that people mould their deities after themselves. Warlike people have warlike deities. The Hebrews were warlike people, who called on their deity to utterly destroy their enemies. Trying to blend that with the love your enemies of the NT is not only a contradiction, but proves to many of us that the founders of the Christian Religion just picked and chose the things from the OT and it is really not the consistant belief system that many have been led to believe.

 

[Silent Enigma]

Here is a question for everyone on this thread. What would you do if you had this power? Would you let these rapest, killers, lairs, and ect go free? These people were warned repeatly to stop. But they loved their sin so much that they would not stop.

Rapists and killers are one thing, little children are another. I'm in favor of the death penalty for rapists and such, but kids - no way.

 

[Silent Enigma]

If the muslims claimed this was spoken by Allah, would you condone such acts Yes or No.

I say no. What about the rest of the Christians on this thread?

 

[Timmothy]

I think the simple answer is that people mould their deities after themselves. Warlike people have warlike deities. The Hebrews were warlike people, who called on their deity to utterly destroy their enemies. Trying to blend that with the love your enemies of the NT is not only a contradiction, but proves to many of us that the founders of the Christian Religion just picked and chose the things from the OT and it is really not the consistant belief system that many have been led to believe.

It took me a long time to make up my answer, and you come in and make one that makes sense.

 

[Timmothy]

I say no. What about the rest of the Christians on this thread?

I say no also. Just because Allah didn't say it. I dont know really how I would judge it if he did. If that makes any sense.

 

[Stinker]

I too was taught that I must accept everything written in the Bible canon as 100% true. As most have had 2Tim.2:16 drilled into us for so long, we feel that we have no other choice than to try to rationalize the Old Testament's rapes, and slaughter of men, women, children and infants, by the Israelites.

Many Bible scholars are finally getting through to people that the reason these atrocities have been so out of harmony with the New Testament is due to how the Old Testament writings came about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Lanakila
I think the simple answer is that people mould their deities after themselves. Warlike people have warlike deities. The Hebrews were warlike people, who called on their deity to utterly destroy their enemies. Trying to blend that with the love your enemies of the NT is not only a contradiction, but proves to many of us that the founders of the Christian Religion just picked and chose the things from the OT and it is really not the consistant belief system that many have been led to believe.

I don't think it is a matter of picking and choosing, but more of harmonizing. For Christ-ians, the NT reveals what was "hidden" in the OT so to speak.

Exodus 7:1 So Y@hovah said to Moses: "See, I have made you 'elohiym to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.

Matthew 26:57 And those who had laid hold of Jesus led [Him] away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.

(ISA) 1 Corinthians 15:22 for even as in the Adam [Law/Flesh/Death] all are dying, so also in the Christ [Spirit/Life] all shall be being made alive,

 

[JohnR7]

C'mon John, you keep avoiding answering the question of "Yes" or "No"

Actually, you are the one that is avoiding the question. Is it ok for over 2 million women a year to rip the baby out of their womb and destory it? If so then why would it be ok to destory their baby before it is born but not ok to destory it after it is born? Is there anything we can do to stop these women from destorying their baby in this way? Does the Bible not say to choose life?

Deut. 30:19
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

 

[Prince Lucianus]

Abortion is not a topic in the bible.

Paul thought it more important to describe what women wear in church than what to do in case of abortion. Jesus never mentions it either. God has no problem with ripping pregnant women open.
This shows how important this topic was in Jesus' time. The fact that the NT doesn't mention it means:
Jesus didn't care.
It was something personal, not really something you discussed.

Lucy

 

[Bombila]

Little Lamb, I don't understand what you mean by this:

"I don't think it is a matter of picking and choosing, but more of harmonizing. For Christ-ians, the NT reveals what was "hidden" in the OT so to speak." - LittleLambofJesus

(I apologise for not using the quote feature:my computer freezes every time I try.)

In what way does the New Testament harmonise the violence of the Old Testament? Do you mean by replacing the message of violence with the more peaceful and cheek-turning message of Jesus? If so, is that an admission (or suggestion) that the Old Testament can be held to be history as written by the (rather bloodthirsty) victors, and so for the most part not the word of God, but an interpretation of events that includes what the men of the day considered (or wanted) to be God's desires?

 

[Gott]

Actually, you are the one that is avoiding the question. Is it ok for over 2 million women a year to rip the baby out of their womb and destory it? If so then why would it be ok to destory their baby before it is born but not ok to destory it after it is born? Is there anything we can do to stop these women from destorying their baby in this way? Does the Bible not say to choose life?

Deut. 30:19
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

Avoiding what question John?
I simply have asked about four times and you have failed to say "yes" or "No"
This is a yes, or no question for you John.
If the muslims claimed this was spoken by Allah, would you condone such acts Yes or No.
Which one will you choose.
Yes, or No.

 

[JohnR7]

I simply have asked about four times and you have failed to say "yes" or "No"

You need to answer my question first. Does God approve of abortion or not? You keep trying to have this both way and you can not. You have to choose.

God is life, health and healing. He wants to bless us and He wants what is best for us. Satan is the one that is out to kill and destory. God offers us a choice, and He does all He can to get us to choose life.

How can you twist this whole thing to think that God would ever want anyone to choose pain, misery, suffering sickness, disease or death? That is the future that satan wants for you, not God.

Genesis 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

 

[JohnR7]

Abortion is not a topic in the bible.

It is a topic in my Bible and even the pro death people admit that it is a choice. My Bible says that we should choose life.

If your "goth" then the choice you have made is for death. You have made the wrong choice. But it is not to late. In fact you most likely would not even be here if God were not pulling for you. So at some point you will most likely turn back to God and choose life. Otherwise you would run and hide and would not even want as much light as there is here on this site.

 

[Prince Lucianus]

Although the bible is pro life in a few verses, god is pro slaying in more verses. That you pick the few verses concerning life (from the OT no less) is your right, but that doesn't mean that god's message in the OT is pro life. God has no problem with slaying innocent fetusses in the mothers womb in the OT. He didn't state "Don't do this at home. I do this one time, but nobody should ever, ever have an abortion."
Again, Jesus and Paul couldn't be bothered with this subject as well and neither could the gospel writers. How long your hair should be was definitely more important (to Paul at least).
Jesus thought castration is a good thing, (I believe Philo castrated himself, because Jesus apparently said it was a good thing) did you practise this as well.

BtW, your knowledge of goths is incorrect, so let's not try to indulge in this subject.

Lucy

 

[Gott]

You need to answer my question first. Does God approve of abortion or not? You keep trying to have this both way and you can not. You have to choose.

God is life, health and healing. He wants to bless us and He wants what is best for us. Satan is the one that is out to kill and destory. God offers us a choice, and He does all He can to get us to choose life.

How can you twist this whole thing to think that God would ever want anyone to choose pain, misery, suffering sickness, disease or death? That is the future that satan wants for you, not God.

Genesis 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Well since you "still won't answer the question" I'll answer yours.

Yes God condones and has ordered abortions by using other nations as his means of expressing his wrath and anger towards others, as is expressed in the verse.

How can you twist this whole thing to think that God would ever want anyone to choose pain, misery, suffering sickness, disease or death?

Well let's see what your own bible has to say about "God wanting someone to choose pain, misery, suffering, sickness, disease or death"

“It is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it” (Concorant Old Testament).

Here then are some Biblical examples of what God “allows”[Gk: ‘approved’]

PLAGUES AND DISEASE :
“The LORD shall smite you with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue you until you perish” (Deut. 28:22).

POVERTY :
“The LORD makes poor…” (I Sam. 2:7).
“The rich and poor meet together: the Lord is the maker of all” (Prov. 22:2).



FAMINE :
“Moreover He [God] called for a famine upon the land: He broke the whole staff of bread” (Psalm 105:16).

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“And I [God] will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from the land…” (Jer. 24:10).


AFFLICTIONS :
“…the Lord has testified against me, and the Almighty has afflicted [Heb: ‘to make good for nothing’] me” (Ruth 1:21).

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“And the Lord rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them [Heb: ‘hurt and weakened’]” (II Kings 17:20).

THE SWORD :
“I [God] will consume them by the sword…” (Jer. 14:12).


“I [God] will scatter them also among the heathen, whom neither they nor their father have known: and I will send a sword after them, till I have consumed them” (Jer. 9:16).

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WAR :
“The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is His name” (Ex. 15:3).

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“And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse, and He that sat upon Him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war” (Rev. 19:11).


DESTRUCTION :
“Howl! Ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty” (Isa. 13:6).

​

“Alas for the day! For the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come” (Joel 1:15).


“PESTILENCE:
“And I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast: they shall DIE of a great pestilence” (Jer. 21:6).

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“If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people…” (II Chron. 7:13).


KILLING :
"And My wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless” (Ex. 22:24).

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“To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven… a time to kill…” (Ecc. 3:1 & 3).


SLAUGHTER :
“And the Lord discomfited them before Israel; and slew them with a great slaughter…” (Joshua 10:10).

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“For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He has utterly destroyed them, he has delivered them to the slaughter” ( Isa. 34:2).


GRIEF :
“You did say, Woe is me now! For the Lord has added grief to my sorrow; I fainted in my sighing, and I find no rest” (Jer. 45:3).

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“But though He [God] cause grief, yet will He have compassion according to the multitude of His mercies” (Lam. 3:32).


EVIL :
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil” (Isa. 45:7).


“And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow… the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Gen. 2:9).


“It is an experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it” (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Literal Old Testament).


“Out of the mouth of the most High proceeds not evil and good?” (Lam. 3:38).


“I will raise up evil against you out of your own house…” (II Sam. 12:11).


“…I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction” (Jer. 4:6).


“…Hear, O earth; behold, I will bring evil upon this people…” (Jer. 6:19).


“…Thus says the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you…” (Jer. 18:11).


“…so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until He have destroyed you from off this good land…” (Josh. 23:15)


“What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil?” (Job 2:10).


“…shall thee be evil in a city, and the Lord has not done it?” (Amos 3:6).

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Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera!


Do you comprehend what you have read? Do you really? Well if you haven’t gotten it yet, let me make it clear: Things don’t just happen on this earth or in the universe according to the christian bible; rather God makes them happen, He causes them to happen, He brings them about.
“…according to the purpose of Him [God] Who works [Greek aiorist tense: past, present, and future] all things after the counsel of His Own will” (Eph. 1:11).


How can you twist this whole thing to think that God doesn't cause pain, misery, suffering sickness, disease or death?

“It is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it” (Concorant Old Testament).


Now John, since I answered your question, and showed you from your own bible just who cases what, maybe you can answer this question.


How did the little infants deserve this, and why would God rip pregnant women up for simply rebelling?
Would we condone such acts coming from Muslims who declared that Allah had spoken this?
The Lord is the one who brings destruction upon his people using other nations as his means of destruction.
So If the muslims claimed this was spoken by Allah, would you condone such acts?

 

[suzybeezy]

Due to subject matter, this thread has been moved to Ethics & Morality

3.5 Controversial Topics to Be Discussed Only in Certain Forums

A. You will not post content regarding the following subjects anywhere on CF except in Ethics & Morality, Liberal Theology, Christian Philosophy, or any subforums in the Congregation or Recovery* categories:

drug use
gambling
polygamy
extramarital or premarital sexual activity
homosexuality
transsexuality
abortion