Dashed in pieces

[Gott]

In our own day and age we would think this to be a in-justice to human beings, so why do Christians assume that what God did is not an in-justice, but just, just because He is God.
God in his anger caused this "dashing' and "ripping" to take place simply because of their sin against their God.
How did the little infants deserve this, and why would God rip pregnant women up for simply rebelling?
Would we condone such acts coming from Muslims who declared that Allah had spoken this?

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

 

[Gott]

Bump:

 

[sc4s2cg]

Bump:

May we have the book, chapter, verse that that is found in please?

G-d bless,
sc

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

May we have the book, chapter, verse that that is found in please?

G-d bless,
sc

Hosea 13:16

Here is an easy way to find the verses using that word:

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

ratash (Strong's 07376) occurs 7 times in 6 verses:


1) to dash to pieces
a) (Piel) to dash in pieces b) (Pual) to be dashed in pieces

 

[JohnR7]

why do Christians assume that what God did is not an in-justice

Because we know that God is a God of Justice. You need to look at the very first verse in that passage: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in Me is thine help". (Hosea 13:9) It was actually Assyria that attacked them. They could have gotten help from God but they did not want His help. They brought it all on themselves, even though God warned them ahead of time. God gave them lots of warning, like He is warning people today. But they would not listen. You really need to look at this passage to see the message that God has in it for you.

Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

God wants to protect us. But some are not willing to accept or receive His protection. Even though He warns them ahead of time what is going to happen. They just go right on with what they are doing and they continue to ignore the warnings.

Isaiah 1:4-6
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
[5] Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. [6] From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

 

[sc4s2cg]

Hosea 13:16

Here is an easy way to find the verses using that word:

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

ratash (Strong's 07376) occurs 7 times in 6 verses:


1) to dash to pieces
a) (Piel) to dash in pieces b) (Pual) to be dashed in pieces

Thanks LittleLamb.

Gott: Here's a good thread on it

G-d bless,
sc

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Because we know that God is a God of Justice. You need to look at the very first verse in that passage: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in Me is thine help". (Hosea 13:9) It was actually Assyria that attacked them. They could have gotten help from God but they did not want His help. They brought it all on themselves, even though God warned them ahead of time. God gave them lots of warning, like He is warning people today. But they would not listen. You really need to look at this passage to see the message that God has in it for you.

Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

God wants to protect us. But some are not willing to accept or receive His protection. Even though He warns them ahead of time what is going to happen. They just go right on with what they are doing and they continue to ignore the warnings.

Isaiah 1:4-6
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
[5] Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. [6] From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

Jesus also had some rather somber words to the "daughters of Jerusalem.

The words daughters of jerusalem occur in 13 verses, including 8 exact phrase matches shown first: [used 7 times in Song of Songs and 1 time in gospels]

Luke 23:28 But Jesus, turning to them, said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 "For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, 'Blessed [are] the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!' 30 "Then they will begin 'to say to the mountains, "Fall on us!" and to the hills, "Cover us!" '

Reve 6:16

and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

 

[Gott]

Because we know that God is a God of Justice. You need to look at the very first verse in that passage: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in Me is thine help". (Hosea 13:9) It was actually Assyria that attacked them. They could have gotten help from God but they did not want His help. They brought it all on themselves, even though God warned them ahead of time. God gave them lots of warning, like He is warning people today. But they would not listen. You really need to look at this passage to see the message that God has in it for you.

Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

God wants to protect us. But some are not willing to accept or receive His protection. Even though He warns them ahead of time what is going to happen. They just go right on with what they are doing and they continue to ignore the warnings.

Isaiah 1:4-6
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
[5] Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. [6] From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

Maybe you should try and answer what was asked.
How did the little infants deserve this, and why would God rip pregnant women up for simply rebelling?
Would we condone such acts coming from Muslims who declared that Allah had spoken this?
The Lord is the one who brings destruction upon his people using other nations as his means of destruction.
So If the muslims claimed this was spoken by Allah, would you condone such acts?

 

[JohnR7]

How did the little infants deserve this, and why would God rip pregnant women up for simply rebelling?

You know I wondered about that. I wondered why God allows over 2 million infants to be riped from their mothers womb every years. Then I came to realize that the wages of sin are death. So you have to deal with the sin issue. You can stand outside of abortion clinics and beg women not to kill their baby. But it may be better to stand outside of the bars and dance halls and try and keep them from the sin that leads to death.

Deut. 30:19
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you,
that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;
therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

 

[Gott]

You know I wondered about that. I wondered why God allows over 2 million infants to be riped from their mothers womb every years. Then I came to realize that the wages of sin are death. So you have to deal with the sin issue. You can stand outside of abortion clinics and beg women not to kill their baby. But it may be better to try and keep them from the sin that leads to death.

Deut. 30:19
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you,
that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;
therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

So If the muslims claimed this was spoken by Allah, you would condone such acts?

 

[JohnR7]

So If the muslims claimed this was spoken by Allah, you would condone such acts?

The only think I know about muslims is that one group of muslims just set off a bomb in a flea market in Bagdad where there was a lot of perfume and glass bottles and they killed over 100 muslims that belonged to another muslim group. Perhaps you can explain that to me. Do you think that we should just let the various muslim groups fight it out among themselves and stay out of their way? Or should we try to keep them from killing each other?

 

[Timmothy]

FIRST THING I WANT TO SAY TO YOU GOTT is gears of war is a cool game. The second thing is, could you explain what you mean about dashing ripping? Are you trying to relate it to abortion? I just dont understand the question your asking. And I dont want to attempt to answer it if I dont understand it, because I will proplly end up looking like a jackass if I did.

 

[Silent Enigma]

I think Gott's point is that we often overlook/hide the atrocities in our own bible but are quick to point out the violence in other religions. It's true. I've done it many, many times. But to be honest, ancient cultures like the ones that produced our old testament didn't value human life like modern Christians have become accustomed to.

At any rate, Gott should be happy that Christians want to do this because it means we've moved beyond the barbarism inherent in many ancient faiths.

Three cheers for the modern, liberal, pro-life interpretation of Christianity.

 

[Prince Lucianus]

Actually, many things have changed in Christian understanding. Demons and Devils taking over human beings has been abandoned by most Christians. The concept of hell has been modified and changed as well.
Things which were described and seen as normal for 2000 years are totally unacceptable these days. Some of these ideas have melted with Christian thought.

So, old stories about killing and maiming, totally acceptable in a period were Israel was independent, have now been discarded as immoral. Some still defend the fact that god urging others to kill is actually morally justifiable (like a prophet killing children for making fun of him), but most (or many) Christians take these stories not at face value.

Lucy

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Actually, many things have changed in Christian understanding. Demons and Devils taking over human beings has been abandoned by most Christians. The concept of hell has been modified and changed as well.
Things which were described and seen as normal for 2000 years are totally unacceptable these days. Some of these ideas have melted with Christian thought.

So, old stories about killing and maiming, totally acceptable in a period were Israel was independent, have now been discarded as immoral. Some still defend the fact that god urging others to kill is actually morally justifiable (like a prophet killing children for making fun of him), but most (or many) Christians take these stories not at face value.

Lucy

Hi and thanks for bringing this up. I believe more Christ-ians may be delving back into the Bible to better harmonize the 2 Covenants the LORD spoke of to the Israelites, who I believe are symbolic as is much of the Bible.

For example, the LORD promised a Covenant of Peace with the Land while at the same time promising a "Sword" against the Land. This would make the LORD appear to be contradictory unless one looks at the hidden meanings behind the Words of the LORD.

The killing of any man or even beast is abhorring to me and it should also be that way to any righteous human being that takes a life in the name of "HATRED". Thoughts?

http://www.christianforums.com/t4559751-revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book.html
Revelation a Jewish polemic book?

(Young) Psalms 2:9 Thou dost rule them with a sceptre of iron, As a vessel of a potter Thou dost crush them.'

naphats (Strong's 05310) occurs 22 times in 17 verses: AV - break in pieces 9, scatter 3, break 3, dash 2, discharged 1,
dispersed 1, overspread 1, dash in pieces 1, sunder 1; 22

Reve 2:26 And the one conquering, and the one keeping, untill finish the acts of Me, I shall be giving to him authority over the Nations. 27 And he shall be sherpherding them in iron rod/staff as the vessels, the pottery, is being crushed, as also I have obtained beside the Father of Me.

Ezekiel 34:25 " I will make a covenant of peace with them, and cause wild beasts to cease from the land; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods....... 37:26 "Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore.

Ezekiel 38:21 "I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains," says the Lord GOD. "Every man's sword will be against his brother.

Reve 6:4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the land, and that [people] should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

 

[Gott]

The only think I know about muslims is that one group of muslims just set off a bomb in a flea market in Bagdad where there was a lot of perfume and glass bottles and they killed over 100 muslims that belonged to another muslim group. Perhaps you can explain that to me. Do you think that we should just let the various muslim groups fight it out among themselves and stay out of their way? Or should we try to keep them from killing each other?

It's a simple question that was never really answered.
So If the muslims claimed this was spoken by Allah, would you condone such acts?
Yes or No.
I think the rest should be apparent.

 

[Gott]

FIRST THING I WANT TO SAY TO YOU GOTT is gears of war is a cool game. The second thing is, could you explain what you mean about dashing ripping? Are you trying to relate it to abortion? I just dont understand the question your asking. And I dont want to attempt to answer it if I dont understand it, because I will proplly end up looking like a jackass if I did.

Dashing (to kill, to murder)
Ripping (basically a knife to the stomach ripping the children out, killing the children)

 

[Timmothy]

Well here is a theory, If God was to let those people live they could of Corrupt man at the time, and Gods word would of not made it this far. So killing a small group of people that rebelled against God is better than killing millions of people that could of rebelled against God.

 

[JohnR7]

So If the muslims claimed this was spoken by Allah, would you condone such acts Yes or No.

If they claimed what was spoken by Allah? If they claimed it was ok for 2 million women a year to rip their baby from their womb and destory it?

The question is, what lines up with the Bible and what contradicts the Bible. The Bible is the final authority, no matter what you are looking at. The Bible is the standard that we use to measure the truth.

The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. So if people sin, then they can expect that the result of that is going to be death.

 

[Bombila]

If God is omnipotent, as claimed, Timmothy, He could have achieved that end in countless less violent ways.Why didn't He?