Darwinism is a Pseudo-Science

[Oncedeceived]

This is the lack of honesty I am talking about.

What???? Where in the world are you getting dishonesty out of this?

That is the feature that is unique to our universe. In universes with different constants, we could find features that were unique to that universe and not found in our universe. This would mean that the other universe is fine tuned for those unique features. Every universe would be fine tuned.

You continually leave out life in your speculation.

 

[Oncedeceived]

They are also critical for the development of the Face on Mars, as already shown.

I hate to break this to you LM but there is no face on Mars, it doesn't exist. There is a eroded butte or mesa, no different than any other part of the surrounding landscape.

 

[Loudmouth]

What???? Where in the world are you getting dishonesty out of this?

Read your own post. You claim that there is no wiggle room, and yet you spell out what the wiggle room is.

You continually leave out life in your speculation.

You leave out the rest of the universe in your speculations.

 

[Nithavela]

Here it is , all neatly laid out:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oaPcK-KCppBztIJmXUBXTvZTZ5lHV4Qg_pnzmvVL2Qw/edit
​

I see you are a catholic, so...

 

[Loudmouth]

I hate to break this to you LM but there is no face on Mars, it doesn't exist. There is a eroded butte or mesa, no different than any other part of the surrounding landscape.

If it is no different, then why don't we see the same face millions of times across the surface of Mars?

Also, I just showed you that the same constants needed for life are also needed for the geology on Mars that produces all of the other eroded buttes and mesas found on Mars.

 

[PsychoSarah]

To evolve there are 26 features that are critical to the existence of life on earth and those are only the ones we know about.


True but we are speaking about known properties and the requirements for life. We do know what it takes for life to exist and what the universe needs to supply it and how it does so precisely is known.

Only 26? Fewer than I was thinking actually, and that only applies to life as we know it too.

The universe is not that well known, honestly

 

[Oncedeceived]

Read your own post. You claim that there is no wiggle room, and yet you spell out what the wiggle room is.

How is only 0.07 the life permitting value give wiggle room? 0.06 no life. 0.08 no life. 0.07 life. Now where are you seeing wiggle room?

You leave out the rest of the universe in your speculations.

No, even though it is only speculation and nothing more to calculate other universes into the mix, even with millions and millions the fine tuning is still there.

0.06 = no life 0.07 = life 0.08 = no life = no wiggle room

 

[Oncedeceived]

Only 26? Fewer than I was thinking actually, and that only applies to life as we know it too.

The universe is not that well known, honestly

Well until you research it I don't see much happening in our debates on the subject. anyway.

 

[Loudmouth]

How is only 0.07 the life permitting value give wiggle room? 0.06 no life. 0.08 no life. 0.07 life. Now where are you seeing wiggle room?

How do you not see it? What about 0.071? Would that permit life? What about 0.077? 0.067?

No, even though it is only speculation and nothing more to calculate other universes into the mix, even with millions and millions the fine tuning is still there.

The fine tuning would be there in every universe since every universe would have rare or unique features.

 

[Oncedeceived]

How do you not see it? What about 0.071? Would that permit life? What about 0.077? 0.067?

If you want to call that wiggle room in a vast universe with infinite possibilities suit yourself. I just see someone grasping at anything to deny reality. But hey, if you are comfortable with that who am I to burst your bubble. Deny away.

The fine tuning would be there in every universe since every universe would have rare or unique features.

Prove it. What evidence do you have to show that? Scientists who have researched it claim that there could be other universes but they would not be life permitting unless there were infinite universes and even then out of all the universes there would still be only a few life permitting and the fine tuning of those would need to be explained as well.

 

[Loudmouth]

If you want to call that wiggle room in a vast universe with infinite possibilities suit yourself.

That is the dishonesty that I am talking about. A constant can vary by as much as 10%, and you refuse to accept that as wiggle room.

Prove it. What evidence do you have to show that? Scientists who have researched it claim that there could be other universes but they would not be life permitting unless there were infinite universes and even then out of all the universes there would still be only a few life permitting and the fine tuning of those would need to be explained as well.

I didn't say they would be life permitting. Did you read my post or not?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Well until you research it I don't see much happening in our debates on the subject. anyway.

So much is unknown about physics still that debating about it, when neither of us has that as our forte, is pretty silly

 

[lasthero]

If you want to call that wiggle room in a vast universe with infinite possibilities suit yourself. I just see someone grasping at anything to deny reality. But hey, if you are comfortable with that who am I to burst your bubble. Deny away.

You're not really providing any real argument against his line of reasoning, here. This is basically just an appeal to ridicule.

 

[HitchSlap]

You're not really providing any real argument against his line of reasoning, here. This is basically just an appeal to ridicule.

That's how she rolls.

 

[Oncedeceived]

So much is unknown about physics still that debating about it, when neither of us has that as our forte, is pretty silly

Well it may not be what I am trained in but I have spent close to a year researching it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Well it may not be what I am trained in but I have spent close to a year researching it.

Think on that, would a year of biology alone be enough to really be adequate talking about it to the degree we do?

 

[Oncedeceived]

That is the dishonesty that I am talking about. A constant can vary by as much as 10%, and you refuse to accept that as wiggle room.

At best I could be wrong about the significance of the range, to call my statement dishonest is just a common reaction with you. If we look at the ranges available which are infinite then is 0.01 significant? I am not a mathematician and so I would need to educate myself to determine if I am overlooking a significant factor that physicists more educated than I have called very precise and fine tuned for life in this instance.

I didn't say they would be life permitting. Did you read my post or not?

Which was my point.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Think on that, would a year of biology alone be enough to really be adequate talking about it to the degree we do?

Just as there are different areas of biology there are different areas of physics and the fine tuning issue is a very specific area of study.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Just as there are different areas of biology there are different areas of physics and the fine tuning issue is a very specific area of study.

I would think that purposely studying how the universe could be interpreted as designed would be opening the door for severe bias.

 

[Loudmouth]

At best I could be wrong about the significance of the range, to call my statement dishonest is just a common reaction with you.

Your statement was dishonest. Your own posts showed that there can be a +/- 10% change, and yet you claimed there was no wiggle room.

If we look at the ranges available which are infinite then is 0.01 significant?

10% is 10% whether it is an infinite range or not.

I am not a mathematician and so I would need to educate myself to determine if I am overlooking a significant factor that physicists more educated than I have called very precise and fine tuned for life in this instance.

They are saying that there is wiggle room.

Which was my point.

Your point was fine tuning, not the presence of life.