Darwin Confesses evolution not being conceivable!

[ifriit]

Einstein believed that a God did exist, what exactly he believed about God I do not know. Einstein's theories were also not widely accepted by the scientific community, yet they were wrong and he was right. Because he believed in God it expanded his ability to think outside the box that atheist scientists live in. He believed God and science co-existed.

You're right, you don't know anything about what Einstein believed. Einstein believed that if there were anything to be called deity, it would be Spinoza's God: the universe. Even the most atheistic of scientists believe in said god, they just don't all show it the same reverence.

 

[Meatros]

You know that! I want you to go to heaven Meatros, I really do, but you know since I can't explain every little detail of the absolute proof that God exsist does not mean he doesn't!

You said you had evidence and now you say you don't? I'm not even looking for absolute proof I'm looking for evidence.

You know this Meatros the just shall live by Faith! The belief In God without the material evidence. The belief of having secure faith or trusting acceptance that God is who he really says he is!

Faith in which God? If it were just one, then it might be a little easier. In addition, that still doesn't absolve God from creating someone who doesn't believe in God and then sending that creation to hell. How is that a benevolent God?

I can't convince you, but God will make Himself known to you personally. Like the wind, you cannot see it, but you can fell its effects and its gentleness. That is the proof, Faith is the proof. Without it you will be lost.

No, without it I will be in Hell, a hell that God has sentenced me to because of his whim of creation. I suppose maybe if God had put a little more puddy into my creation that I would magically believe?

If you want material proof of Gods exsistence then you will slowly die suffering never knowing if he does or not.

So why did God create me to do this? You've ignored my question long enough-Is God omnipotent?

Confusion will be your epitaph, as you crawl and the crack the broken path, if you make it you can sit back and laugh but i'm afraid tomorrow you'll be crying. Why? Cause no one can prove He does exsis, except the effect he has on peoples lives, and no one can prove he doesn't exsist. You'll just have to wait till you die Meatros, then you'll see. but I'm truly afraid then you'll be crying.

I'm not confused blixation, I just see no reason to believe. Do you believe in gigantic purple smurfs? Probably not, right? Well that's how I feel about God.

The God you subscribe to isn't a benevolent God if he created me only to **** me. IF God is omnipotent then God would have known, before he created me, that I would require evidence to believe. God provides no evidence for me. Ergo God wants me to go to hell? Right? Where is my error?

 

[Arikay]

Yeah, maybe study up more on Einstein, as Einsteins beliefs kept him from going as far as he could have.

I said nothing of Einstein believing in a Christian God so get your facts straight. Einstein believed that a God did exist, what exactly he believed about God I do not know. Einstein's theories were also not widely accepted by the scientific community, yet they were wrong and he was right. Because he believed in God it expanded his ability to think outside the box that atheist scientists live in. He believed God and science co-existed.

 

[Meatros]

I said nothing of Einstein believing in a Christian God so get your facts straight. Einstein believed that a God did exist, what exactly he believed about God I do not know. Einstein's theories were also not widely accepted by the scientific community, yet they were wrong and he was right. Because he believed in God it expanded his ability to think outside the box that atheist scientists live in. He believed God and science co-existed.

Then your point about Einstein is totally meaningless. So why did you bring up Einstein?

He created you to go to Heaven. It is by choice you go to one place or the other. Even Einstein believed in God, but I suppose you are smarter and better informed than he. He realized that because of the immense scale and order of the universe, far too much precision was involved for it to arbitrarily evolve, hence, the universe was designed by something of a Higher order..

 

[blixation]

You said you had evidence and now you say you don't? I'm not even looking for absolute proof I'm looking for evidence.

What kind of evidence? the material kind? the logical kind? or the kind that you can't explain everything in the universe, which is evidence in of itself?

Faith in which God? If it were just one, then it might be a little easier. In addition, that still doesn't absolve God from creating someone who doesn't believe in God and then sending that creation to hell. How is that a benevolent God?

The only God that has proven Himself time and time again. The God of Isreal, the God of the Holy Scriptures, the God of abraham, Jacob, and Issac. The reason for you not believing is not God's fault, it's not his responcibility for your actions! God Is a merciful God, but He is also a God of justice and holiness. I'll give you an example; Lets say you killed someone raped them, slit their throat, burned their body. Obviously the cops are going to be after you cause you broke the law. They catch you, throw you in jail, and slap a 1 million dollar fine on you. Again obviosly you have to face the judge for your sentence that you will receive. When you face the judge, before he passes his sentence on you you stop him and say, "Hey judge I'm really sorry and I won't do it again." And you truly mean this in your heart Meatros. Do you honestly think the judge will let you go because you're sorry or you won't do it again? No! What he will say is that of course you should be sorry, cause you broke the law, and of course you shouldn't do it again. BUT, If someone pays that fine, Meatros, If someone pays that 1 million dollar fine then the judge can let you go. Just justice has been satisfied!

Now that is the same with God, He will not! once again he will not let you go just because you're sorry for your sins. But if someone take your punishment, if someone pays your fine. Then God can let you go. Now you know why Christ died on the cross of calvary. He paid that fine for all of those who choose to have faith, and to accept that payment; that gift of eternal life. the moment you place your faith in Christ for your eternal salvation your sins are washed away by the blood of Christ. No longer will you have to go to hell, cause Christ took your punishment upon himself so you didn't have to take it. Does this make sense in what i'm saying?

 

[Meatros]

What kind of evidence? the material kind? the logical kind? or the kind that you can't explain everything in the universe, which is evidence in of itself?

Anything other then anecdotal.

The only God that has proven Himself time and time again.

Zeus? Which God is this? Are you basing this off of a book or actual evidence?

The God of Isreal, the God of the Holy Scriptures, the God of abraham, Jacob, and Issac. The reason for you not believing is not God's fault, it's not his responcibility for your actions!

So God didn't know exactly what he was creating? God isn't all powerful then? That's what you are admitting to. If God isn't all powerful, then how am I supposed to be assured that God is good? That God will beat the devil? That God isn't just taking credit for creation?

Now that is the same with God, He will not! once again he will not let you go just because you're sorry for your sins.

Um...Actually, I thought he would-isn't that the whole point of Jesus's death? Aren't all sins equal in the eyes of the lord?

But if someone take your punishment, if someone pays your fine. Then God can let you go. Now you know why Christ died on the cross of calvary. He paid that fine for all of those who choose to have faith, and to accept that payment; that gift of eternal life. the moment you place your faith in Christ for your eternal salvation your sins are washed away by the blood of Christ. No longer will you have to go to hell, cause Christ took your punishment upon himself so you didn't have to take it. Does this make sense in what i'm saying?

So basically, if I believe in Jesus and accept that he died for my sins, I get out of it twice?

That's your justice?

 

[notto]

I said nothing of Einstein believing in a Christian God so get your facts straight. Einstein believed that a God did exist, what exactly he believed about God I do not know. Einstein's theories were also not widely accepted by the scientific community, yet they were wrong and he was right. Because he believed in God it expanded his ability to think outside the box that atheist scientists live in. He believed God and science co-existed.

Which atheist scientists are you referring to? Do you have some names? What makes you suggest that many of these scientists that disagreed with Eistein were atheists?

Eistein proved Newton "wrong". I thought that Newton was a creationist?

What about Darwin? Can we assume that his believing in a God expanded his ability to think outside the box and that this allowed him to come to his conclusion that science and God could co-exist and that evolution was a description of that coexistence?

 

[blixation]

sorry buddy I must be going, I have some things to attend to. Was nice posting with you all, including Meatros. Brother I'll be praying for your salvation. Any question you would like to me buddy, just e-mail me: _blix1@excite.com

Godspeed,
Will

 

[-Jae-]

I said nothing of Einstein believing in a Christian God so get your facts straight. Einstein believed that a God did exist, what exactly he believed about God I do not know. Einstein's theories were also not widely accepted by the scientific community, yet they were wrong and he was right. Because he believed in God it expanded his ability to think outside the box that atheist scientists live in. He believed God and science co-existed.

Yeah , I know that you didnt say anything about the christian god , but I just wanted to show how silly those appeals to authority are. You can use em to prove or disproof practically anything.

Also , as many others have pointed out , Einstein had a somewhat different idea of God then most theists. By the way , I suggest you read some things about Einstein before claiming that his belief in God gave him an edge over atheistic scientist. It makes little to no sense.

"According to the Jesuit priest , I am and will always be an atheist" -Einstein-

(or something like that)

 

[Vxer1000]

Boy, I sure must have touched a nerve with Einstein. You guys don't like that do you? By the way if you want to debate on the issue of creation use some of your own accumulated knowledge and theories derived from said knowledge rather than posting some information you found on a website. If you want a scientific debate I can give you that from my own knowledge base. I worked in the nuclear field for 6 years, worked as a machinist for 12 years, studied astronomy as a hobby for 20+ years, and currently work as a pump engineer so I think I have a decent physical science backround. Let the debate begin?

 

[ifriit]

By the way if you want to debate on the issue of creation use some of your own accumulated knowledge and theories derived from said knowledge rather than posting some information you found on a website.

What are you trying to say here? Are you suggesting that information found on the internet is automatically wrong? That information that derives from personal experience is the only valid form of information? Why someone could not post information from a reputable website seems nonintuitive, so please explain.

If you want a scientific debate I can give you that from my own knowledge base. I worked in the nuclear field for 6 years, worked as a machinist for 12 years, studied astronomy as a hobby for 20+ years, and currently work as a pump engineer so I think I have a decent physical science backround. Let the debate begin?

As an aside, engineers are somewhat notorious for being sources of scientific misinformation. I know I'd appreciate it if you'd try not to further that impression.

 

[revolutio]

Which affirms absolutely the statement in Psalms:
"The fool (or agnostic) hath said in his heart, there is no God."

Umm, what? Agnostics just don't know. Sure some might really be atheists in heart but others might be theists. And does the Bible really say agnostic or was that your addition?

 

[Vxer1000]

What are you trying to say here? Are you suggesting that information found on the internet is automatically wrong? That information that derives from personal experience is the only valid form of information? Why someone could not post information from a reputable website seems nonintuitive, so please explain.


As an aside, engineers are somewhat notorious for being sources of scientific misinformation. I know I'd appreciate it if you'd try not to further that impression.

Don't ever fly a plane or drive a car then, because guess what? They were designed by engineers.

 

[ifriit]

Don't ever fly a plane or drive a car then, because guess what? They were designed by engineers.

If you aren't careful, they might develop a notoriety for illiteracy, as well.

 

[Vxer1000]

If you aren't careful, they might develop a notoriety for illiteracy, as well.

That's not my field of expertise, so I am not overly concerned about being grammatically correct on a discussion board unless it would dissuade you from making preconceived judgements about engineers.

 

[Nathan Poe]

W When you face the judge, before he passes his sentence on you you stop him and say, "Hey judge I'm really sorry and I won't do it again." And you truly mean this in your heart Meatros. Do you honestly think the judge will let you go because you're sorry or you won't do it again? No! What he will say is that of course you should be sorry, cause you broke the law, and of course you shouldn't do it again. BUT, If someone pays that fine, Meatros, If someone pays that 1 million dollar fine then the judge can let you go. Just justice has been satisfied!

Agreed. If I am forced to pay a fine, and I cannot, someone else can pay the money for me. After all, it's only money, and it doesn't really matter where it came from, right?

of course, technically, I now owe a million dollars to whoever paid my fine, but if they decide to ignore the debt, I'm off the hook, and justice is served.

Now that is the same with God, He will not! once again he will not let you go just because you're sorry for your sins. But if someone take your punishment, if someone pays your fine. Then God can let you go. Now you know why Christ died on the cross of calvary. He paid that fine for all of those who choose to have faith, and to accept that payment; that gift of eternal life. the moment you place your faith in Christ for your eternal salvation your sins are washed away by the blood of Christ. No longer will you have to go to hell, cause Christ took your punishment upon himself so you didn't have to take it. Does this make sense in what i'm saying?

No, it is not the same, and here is where your analogy falls flat.

It is one thing to pay a fine; to hand over a sum of money. After all, it's only money. But if I commit some crime which can only be punishable by my death, is it justice for an innocent to die in my place, even willingly?

No. Unlike money, I would hope that God would care where the life came from. Or is this one of those things where somebody has to die, but God doesn't care who? One death is as good as another?

That's revenge.
That's bloodlust.
That's barbaric.
And that sure isn't "justice."

 

[Nathan Poe]

Which affirms absolutely the statement in Psalms:
"The fool (or agnostic) hath said in his heart, there is no God."

Funny, I read the Bible all the time, and I don't see the word "agnostic" in Psalms.

My Bible reads Psalms 14:1 as saying: "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God."

Could it be that you're adding words to your own sacred scripture in order to make it say what you want it to?

Now, it makes no difference to me if you want to re-write the Bible; I could even give you some suggestions. But isn't there some kind of divine warning against this?

Something that sounds a lot like Revelation 22:18 -- "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book."

 

[ifriit]

That's not my field of expertise, so I am not overly concerned about being grammatically correct on a discussion board unless it would dissuade you from making preconceived judgements about engineers.

The "illiteracy" reference was a bit tongue-in-cheek--you didn't appear to be reading what I wrote. I indicated that engineers were notorious for scientific misinformation. This does not mean that I don't think engineers can do a good job.

I know from personal experience that there are a number of engineers out there who can do what you tell them, just don't ask them to understand it.

 

[Vxer1000]

The "illiteracy" reference was a bit tongue-in-cheek--you didn't appear to be reading what I wrote. I indicated that engineers were notorious for scientific misinformation. This does not mean that I don't think engineers can do a good job.

I know from personal experience that there are a number of engineers out there who can do what you tell them, just don't ask them to understand it.

I am being a bit arrogant I suppose. I was just having a rough day. As far as what an engineer can and cannot do, you are correct. Many engineers are far from being practical or insightful when it comes to their jobs. However, I try to the utmost of my ability to be competent when it comes to my job and conjoining that knowledge to other scientific insights. I worked in the nuclear field for 6 years and the training and knowledge that came with it has been invaluable to other fields I have pursued. Too many people (and I am not trying to belittle anyone here) here have spent a little bit of their free time looking at websites, superficially skimming over information, and now speak and write as though they truly understand the concepts involved. I am very doubtful as to the credibility of their understanding of the scientific priciples involved, whether it be evolution, the Big Bang, dark matter, red light shift, non-linear time, etc.

Big Bang Nucleosynthesis
The Universe's light-element abundance is another important criterion by which the Big Bang hypothesis is verified. It is now known that the elements observed in the Universe were created in either of two ways. Light elements (namely deuterium, helium, and lithium) were produced in the first few minutes of the Big Bang, while elements heavier than helium are thought to have their origins in the interiors of stars which formed much later in the history of the Universe. Both theory and observation lead astronomers to believe this to be the case.

From my training in the nuclear field (and I fail to see why astronomers do not "see" this) the heaviest element that can be formed in the fusion process (stars are fusion reactors) is iron. Of course, according to the periodic table of elements there are many elements heavier than iron so this is in my opinion a fallacy. A supernova produces an extreme environment unlike any star which is conducive for the fusion process at the highest levels, yet fails to produce an element heavier than iron. Where could the heavier elements have come from and in such abundance as they currently exist without an "outside" influence?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

A supernova produces an extreme environment unlike any star which is conducive for the fusion process at the highest levels, yet fails to produce an element heavier than iron. Where could the heavier elements have come from and in such abundance as they currently exist without an "outside" influence?

What makes you think that supernovas can't produce elements heavier than iron?

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/nucsyn.html