Darkness falls ...

[Electric Sceptic]

What can I say to people who think porn & non-marital sex are ok? Nothing. I would personally urge you to repent & ask God's forgiveness and thats all the advice I have.

That's nice. Instead of dispensing unwanted advice, you COULD try actually supporting your beliefs by providing us with evidence to support them.

Nah, that'd be no fun, would it?

 

[nvxplorer]

I told you why I think prostitution is not ok and I got shot down in flames, what difference is any other reason going to make?

But you haven’t stated why pornography and sex outside of marriage are harmful.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

I told you why I think prostitution is not ok and I got shot down in flames, what difference is any other reason going to make?

You could try coming up with some GOOD reasons, or arguing (with support) as to why the reasons you gave are, in fact, good ones, instead of providing reasons based on no support whatsoever and then spitting the dummy when we don't accept them.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Would you like to speak on my behalf from now on as you seem to know me so well..?

Then prove me wrong. Say that, if you had your way, such things as prostitution would NOT be illegal. Do so and I'll readily apologise and retract my statement.

 

[TheListener]

Off the top of my head (there are probably more)

Porn exposes young minds to sex at early ages and as you would know young minds are like sponges at those ages. Anything you condition will stay. Thanks to porn now women have pretty high sexual levels men will expect. This is for normal porn. For the more twisted levels of porn then that can cause desensitisation to sex & can lead to dissatisfaction with normal sexual activity leading to perversion.

No wonder why men aren't satisfied with women anymore & they turn to other men for satisfaction in many cases.

Rape is another bi-product of porn. So is marriage breakdowns & premature [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] etc. Failure in school for teenagers who get distracted on the internet is another one. Porn is also known to cause low self esteem & anger issues.

Sex outside of marriage will pretty much bring in a level of intimacy you are not prepared for. God told us to respect each otehr & be friends first, then introduce sex in a commited relationship.

Having multiple sexual partners can also cause long term effects & issues within marriage & these are too deep to go into in one post.

Marriage breakdowns, STD's, abortions, unwanted pregnancies, teenage pregnancies etc are a bi-product of sex outside of marriage.

 

[Grengor]

What was the logical fallacy called, this before this, then after that?

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Porn exposes young minds to sex at early ages and as you would know young minds are like sponges at those ages. Anything you condition will stay.

Then the problem is not porn, but the exposure of porn to children.

Thanks to porn now women have pretty high sexual levels men will expect.

Firstly, what evidence is there that women have higher sexual expectations than they did previously? Secondly (assuming that they do) what evidence is there that porn is responsible for this?

No wonder why men aren't satisfied with women anymore & they turn to other men for satisfaction in many cases.

What evidence is there that men aren't satisfied with women any more? What evidence is there that the incidence of male homosexuality is increasing? Assuming there is evidence for the previous two, what evidence is there that porn is responsible?

Rape is another bi-product of porn.

What evidence is there of this?

So is marriage breakdowns & premature [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] etc.

What evidence is there of this?

Failure in school for teenagers who get distracted on the internet is another one.

What evidence is there that more teenagers are getting distracted by porn than previously got distracted by the many things teenagers were into?

Porn is also known to cause low self esteem & anger issues.

Known? By whom? Where is this evidenced?

Sex outside of marriage will pretty much bring in a level of intimacy you are not prepared for.

Who says?

God told us to respect each otehr & be friends first, then introduce sex.

Where does he say this? And, of course, even if he does, this does not preclude pre-marital sex.

Having multiple sexual partners can also cause long term effects & issues within marriage & these are too deep to go into in one post.

CAN cause. In which case the problem is with the people in the marriage.

Marriage breakdowns, STD's, abortions, unwanted pregnancies, teenage pregnancies etc are a bi-product of sex outside of marriage.

One could also say that they are a bi-product of UNPROTECTED sex outside of marriage - the solution, therefore, wuold be to make contraception readily available and ensure kids are educated.

Once again, you've provided a post making a lot of claims, but not provided any support for them at all. If everything you said above were true, then it might well be a good basis on which to reject sex before marriage. But you've provided nothing at all on which we can judge the truth of your claims. All we have is your word (from your personal experience, presumably). And that ain't enough.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

What was the logical fallacy called, this before this, then after that?

Do you mean "post hoc, ergo procter hoc" (which means, roughly, A followed B, therefore A was caused by B)?

 

[Edx]

Off the top of my head (there are probably more)

Porn exposes young minds to sex at early ages and as you would know young minds are like sponges at those ages. .

Its like when I you walk into a video store, any child can buy porn!

Hey i know its a bit radical, but I suggest they put age restrictions on dvds and videos that may not be suitable.

Ed

 

[nvxplorer]

Off the top of my head (there are probably more)

Porn exposes young minds to sex at early ages and as you would know young minds are like sponges at those ages. Anything you condition will stay. Thanks to porn now women have pretty high sexual levels men will expect. This is for normal porn. For the more twisted levels of porn then that can cause desensitisation to sex & can lead to dissatisfaction with normal sexual activity leading to perversion.

No wonder why men aren't satisfied with women anymore & they turn to other men for satisfaction in many cases.

Rape is another bi-product of porn. So is marriage breakdowns & premature [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] etc. Failure in school for teenagers who get distracted on the internet is another one. Porn is also known to cause low self esteem & anger issues.

Sex outside of marriage will pretty much bring in a level of intimacy you are not prepared for. God told us to respect each otehr & be friends first, then introduce sex in a commited relationship.

Having multiple sexual partners can also cause long term effects & issues within marriage & these are too deep to go into in one post.

Marriage breakdowns, STD's, abortions, unwanted pregnancies, teenage pregnancies etc are a bi-product of sex outside of marriage.

Where do you get this stuff? (Oh yeah, off the top of your head.)

This is nonsense, Listener. It doesn’t even make sense.

Porn causes women to become desensitized to sex, which in turn makes men become gay? Is that your claim? If porn desensitizes people to sex, why is it such a successful marital aid?

This is wild speculation on your part.

 

[Edx]

Basically the Listener is saying that before porn, the world was a happy place.

Ed

 

[nvxplorer]

Basically the Listener is saying that before porn, the world was a happy place.

Don’t tell that to Hugh Hefner. Of course, he’s probably so happy that it doesn’t matter what anyone says.

 

[TheListener]

Basically the Listener is saying that before porn, the world was a happy place.

Ed

No I am saying because of widespread porn on the internet available to everyone of every age group the world is going to be an even worse place.

Who wants evidence? Open your eyes, look around you. What are the most popular searches on the internet? http://www.xxxchurch.com/ has some good statistics.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

No I am saying because of widespread porn on the internet available to everyone of every age group the world is going to be an even worse place.

Who wants evidence? Open your eyes, look around you. What are the most popular searches on the internet? http://www.xxxchurch.com/ has some good statistics.

Man, that's not evidence. It's no good providing evidence of something we all know - that porn searches are very popular. Provide some evidence to support your claim that becuase of it, the world is going to be an even worse place.

Don't you get it? You make a claim, you support it. What's so hard to understand about that?

 

[TheListener]

Man, that's not evidence. It's no good providing evidence of something we all know - that porn searches are very popular. Provide some evidence to support your claim that becuase of it, the world is going to be an even worse place.

Don't you get it? You make a claim, you support it. What's so hard to understand about that?

Obviously you're too busy misquoting me & trying to discredit my link. Had you looked at it this is what you would have found. Read this & tell me porn is not a problem:

quoted from: http://www.xxxchurch.com/pornpatrol/facts.asp

• Generates approximately $1 billion annually with growth projections to $5-7 billion over the next 5 years, barring unforeseen change (NRC Report 2002)

• 74% of adult commercial sites display free teaser porn images on homepage (Child-proofing on the World Wide Web: A survey of adult web servers 2001, (NRC Report 2002)

• 345% increase in child pornography sites between 2/2001-7/2001 (N2H2, 8/01)

• 25 million Americans visit cybersex sites between 1-10 hours per week (MSNBC Survey 2000)

• The U.S. Customs Service estimates that there are more than 100,000 websites offering child pornography - which is illegal, worldwide (Red Herring Magazine, 1/18/02)

• 9 in 10 kids 8-16 yrs. have viewed porn online, mostly accidentally while doing homework (UK News Telegraph, NOP Research Group, 1/07/02)

• Study of 4 million children aged 7-17 who surf the net, 29% would freely give out their home address and 14% would freely give out their email address if asked (NOP Research Group, 2002)

• Adult industry says some traffic is 20-30% children (NRC Report, 2002)

• 26 popular children's characters, such as Pokemon, My Little Pony and Action Man, revealed thousands of links to porn sites. 30% were hard-core. (Envisional 2000)

• 89% of sexual solicitations of youth were made in either chat rooms or Instant Messages (Pew Study reported in JAMA, 2001)

• 1 in 5 youths received sexual solicitation or approach in last year (NCMEC, 2000)

• According to the Justice Department, in 1998 there were 28,000 X-rated websites, generating $925 million in revenue. Now, only three years later, there are 280,000 X- rated websites, generating over $10-20 billion in revenue (The Wall Street Journal 26 Nov. 2001).

• 30% of all unsolicited emails contain pornographic information (Choose Your Mail.com study, October, 1999).

• 53% of teens have encountered offensive web sites that include pornography, hate or violence. Of these, 91% unintentionally found the offensive sites while searching the Web (Yankelovich Partner survey, The Safe America Foundation; Sept. 30, 1999).

• 62% of parents of teenagers are unaware that their children have accessed objectionable websites (Yankelovich Partners study, Sept. 30, 1999).

• 60% of all web-site visits are sexual in nature (MSNBC /Stanford/Duquesne study, Washington Times Jan. 26, 2000).

• According to Christianity Today the percentage of pastors who visited a porn site. 57% Never, 21% A few times a year, 9% Once in past year, 7% More than a year ago, and 6% Couple times a month or more.

• At least 200,000 Internet users are hooked on porn sites, X-rated chat rooms or other sexual materials online (MSNBC/Stanford/Duquesne Study, Associated Press [Online], Feb. 29, 2000).

• 51% of pastors admit that looking at internet pornography is their biggest temptation. (Christianity Today, December 2002)

• According to a U.S. News and World Report article, the porn industry recently took in more than $8 billion in one year. More than all revenues generated by rock and country music, more than America spent on Broadway productions, theater, ballet, jazz and classical music combined.

• Estimates for the number of X-rated sites on the net range from 20,000 to 7 million (CNET.com, April 28, 1999).

• Forrester Research found that porn web-sites earned $1 billion in 1998 and will earn $1.5 billion in 1999.

• Every day, up to 30 million people log on to pornographic web-sites (CNET.com, April 28, 1999).

• Pornographers 'disguise' their sites with common brand names and misspellings designed to "entrap" people. Examples: ESPN, Disney, and White House (Surveillance study, March 1999).

• 51% of pastors say Internet pornography is a possible temptation. 37% say it is a current struggle and 4 out of 10 pastors have visited a porn web-site (Christianity Today, Dec 2001).

• A recent study (March 2000) shows 1 in 5 adults or 20% (which is nearly 40 million people), have visited a sexually oriented web site.

• The research company Relevant Knowledge found that in 1998, 9.6 million users (about 15 percent Web users) logged on to the 10 most popular cybersex sites during the month of April alone.

• Americans spend an estimated $8-10 billion annually on pornography. This exceeds the combined gross of ABC, CBS, and NBC, which is $6.2 billion.

• The average age at which men first see Playboy or a similar magazine is 11.

• A porn film can be made for $20,000-$125,000 and can make up to $2 million in profit from retail sales.

• Laboratory studies have showed that viewing violent pornographic films can increase aggression against women.

• A 1985 study of 256 non-incarcerated perpetrators of sexual offenses who were undergoing treatment showed that 56% of rapists and 42% of women said someone they knew that was into pornography had sexually abused them.

• A 1986 Women's Day survey of 6,000 readers found that 21% of women that were sexually abused knew the person who abused them was heavily into pornography.

• It is believed that 70% of women involved in pornography are survivors of incest or child sexual abuse.

• Nearly 900 theaters show X-rated films and more than 15,000 adult bookstores and video stores offer pornographic material, outnumbering McDonald's restaurants in the U.S. by a margin of at least 3 to 1.

• Each year, nearly 100 full-length pornographic films provide estimated annual box office sales of $50 million.

• Early sexual intercourse among American adolescents represents a major public health problem. According to the most recent data, 61% of all high school seniors have had sexual intercourse, about half are currently sexually active, and 21% have had 4 or more partners. (American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) statement, January 2001)

• Approximately one fourth of sexually active adolescents become infected with an STD each year, accounting for 3 million cases, and people under the age of 25 account for two thirds of all STDs in the United States. (AAP statement, January 2001)

• Although early sexual activity may be caused by a variety of factors, the media are believed to play a significant role. The media also represent the most easily remediable influence on young people and their sexual attitudes and behaviors. (AAP statement, January 2001)

• Adolescents have ranked the media second only to school sex education programs as a leading source of information about sex. (AAP statement, January 2001)

• The average American adolescent will view nearly 14 000 sexual references per year, yet only 165 of these references deal with birth control, self-control, abstinence, or the risk of pregnancy or STDs. (AAP statement, January 2001)

• In one content analysis, 75% of concept videos (videos that tell a story) involved sexual imagery, and more than half involved violence, usually against women. (AAP statement, January 2001)

• Research also shows that heavy exposure to media sex is associated with an increased perception of the frequency of sexual activity in the real world. As a result, television may function as a kind of "super-peer," normalizing these behaviors and, thus, encouraging them among teenagers. (AAP statement, January 2001)

• One recent study found that a child exploring the Internet may be trapped in an adult site by a new marketing technique that disables options such as the "back," "exit," or "close" navigation buttons. (AAP statement, January 2001)

• In fiscal year 1998, the FBI opened up roughly 700 cases dealing with online pedophilia, most of them for posting child pornography, and about a quarter dealing with online predators trying to get children under 18 to meet with them. By 2000 that figure had quadrupled to 2,856 cases. ("The Web's Dark Secret" Newsweek. 3/19/01)

• An estimated 325,000 U.S. children age 17 or younger are prostitutes, performers in pornographic videos or have otherwise fallen victim to "commercial sexual exploitation," University of Pennsylvania researchers will report today. (Memmott, Mark. "Sex Trade may lure 325,000 U.S. Kids; Report: Abused children, runaways typical victims." USA TODAY. 9/10/01)

• Based on interviews with a nationally representative sample of 1,501 youth ages 10 to 17 who use the Internet regularly, approximately one in five received a sexual solicitation or approach over the Internet in the last year. One in thirty-three received an aggressive sexual solicitation- a solicitor who asked to meet them somewhere; called them on the telephone; sent them regular mail, money or gifts. One in four had an unwanted exposure to pictures of naked people or people having sex in the last year. ("Report Statistical Highlights." from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, Crimes Against Children Research Center and Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention. 6/00)

• "The Industry Standard reports that 70% of porn traffic occurs between 9 and 5, and people in the Eastern time zone account for the largest number of porn-site hits-30.3%." (Retzlaff, Eric. "Pornography's Grip Tightens by Way of Internet." National Catholic Register. 6/13-6/19/00)

• According to NetValue, children spent 64.9 percent more time on pornography sites than they did on game sites in September 2000. Over one quarter (27.5%) of children age 17 and under visited an adult web site, which represents 3 million unique underage visitors. Of these minors, 21.2 percent were 14 or younger and 40.2 percent were female. ("The NetValue Report on Minors Online..." Business Wire. (taken from study by NetValue, Internet activity measurement service) December 19, 2000)

• "The National Council on Sexual Addiction Compulsivity estimated that 6%-8% of Americans are sex addicts, which is 16 million-21.5 million people." (Cooper, Alvin, Dana E. Putnam, Lynn A. Planchon, and Sylvain C. Boies. "Online Sexual Compulsivity: Getting Tangled in the Net." Sexual Addiction and Compulsivity, 6:79-104. (Taken from Amparano, J. "Sex addicts get help." The Arizona Republic, p. A1. 1999)

• "A recent study by researchers at Stanford and Duquesne universities claims at least 200,000 Americans are hopelessly addicted to E-porn." (Koerner, Brendan I. "A lust for profits." U.S. News online. www.usnew.com/usnews/issue/000327/eporn.htm. 3/27/00)

 

[David Gould]

So 20 per cent of adults have visited a porn sit, but 40 per cent of pastors? And this shows that Christianity keeps you on the straight and narrow how, exactly?

 

[David Gould]

4 out of 10 pastors have visited a porn web-site (Christianity Today, Dec 2001).

• A recent study (March 2000) shows 1 in 5 adults or 20% (which is nearly 40 million people), have visited a sexually oriented web site.

ROFLMAO

 

[TheListener]

So 20 per cent of adults have visited a porn sit, but 40 per cent of pastors? And this shows that Christianity keeps you on the straight and narrow how, exactly?

God is perfect, not Christians.

 

[David Gould]

God is perfect, not Christians.

But you are arguing that godlessness leads to immorality. This statistic seems to suggest that you are twice as likely to be an evil, immoral, porn watching person if you are a pastor.

Doesn't that strike you as kind of ... completely the opposite of what you are trying to convince us of? To protect our children from porn, we should be telling them, 'Whatever you do, don't go and be a pastor.'

 

[ebia]

Obviously you're too busy misquoting me & trying to discredit my link. Had you looked at it this is what you would have found. Read this & tell me porn is not a problem:

quoted from: http://www.xxxchurch.com/pornpatrol/facts.asp

Why don't you cut tht down to the bits that you think demontrate your point.