Dark Bible?

[laureenoluv8]

Okay, I asked about the OT before on this site...but a few minutes ago I ran into a website (unintentionally) that blew my mind. I don't believe all of this stuff to be true, but...i don't know. here's the site:

I can't post the site..I don't have enough posts, but go on nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible4.htm


and I also heard about this guy who learned Hebrew and read the Un-translated Bible, and it appeared to be nothing like the one we read today. He said: "Jesus had said that anything he did, we could do and that salvation wasn't through him, but through the I Am, or the soul. In other words, Jesus wanted us to believe in ourselves to find eternal salvation. but evil men who sought power and control used him and exploited his story and message for their own means. and they twisted his message and life, and they created what we now know as the Christian religion."

I'm honestly not meaning to drown myself in this stuff so much, it's just that it's so hard to believe in God now with all of these proofs of the Bible and similar things to be false. I mean, God said "Thou shalt not kill," but yet in the OT he killed so many people. One verse I cringe at:
Isaiah 13:16....

I read an article about the validity of the Bible, and I came up with another negative backfire

"The Bible’s texts are divided into two parts, the Old and the New Testament. The Old Testament claims to tell the early history and religious myths of the Hebrew/Jewish people. Actually the Old Testament is a collection of propaganda texts, made by Jewish priests to give the Jewish people a great and glorious history they never had. Palestine, and the nomads living there, had up through history usually been occupied, ruled and influenced by the mighty civilisations surrounding them. By Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Greece and the Romans.

"The original petty state of Israel formed 884 BC existed for just a few decades until overtaken by the Assyrians. After being oppressed and ruled by their mighty neighbours for centuries the Jews developed a strong nationalism, and messianic prophecies and unrealistic dreams of political and military power flourished in the last centuries BC.

"In this atmosphere, the texts of the Old Testament emerged, and could suddenly 'prove' that the oppressed Jews once had had just as a glorious past as their mighty neighbours and occupants. The texts told the story of a powerful Israel and how they together with their tribal God Jehovah/Yahweh had won one glorious victory after victory against their many enemies.

"These megalomaniac fantasies, now told by the new written evidence, culminated in the presumptuous Jewish rebellions in the first century AD. The uprisings were swiftly crushed by the formidable Roman army, and after the last Jewish uprising in 70 AD, the Romans said enough is enough, and levelled Jerusalem and the Temple to the ground. It seem futile and strange that the Jews thought they could fight the mighty Romans, but fuelled by the stories of their glorious past and almighty God, and actually believing in the Messiah prophecies, counting on the warrior king Messiah should come from the skies with his divine army and wipe the Romans of the face of the earth. It was written that their God had given his chosen people glorious victories over superior enemies numerous times in the past, - pity that these stories were mere fiction. It must have been quite a disappointment for the survivors."

Is the Christian religion really just man's creation?

 

[ebia]

Okay, I asked about the OT before on this site...but a few minutes ago I ran into a website (unintentionally) that blew my mind. I don't believe all of this stuff to be true, but...i don't know. here's the site:

I can't post the site..I don't have enough posts, but go on nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible4.htm

There is an awful lot of drivel on the internet - be discerning about what you read, rather than thinking every outlandish bit of .... needs refuting.

and I also heard about this guy who learned Hebrew and read the Un-translated Bible, and it appeared to be nothing like the one we read today.

Then obviously he's in disagreement with the translators who translated all our modern translations from the hebrew, the many teachers and pastors who read it direct from the hebrew, etc.

He said: "Jesus had said that anything he did, we could do and that salvation wasn't through him, but through the I Am, or the soul. In other words, Jesus wanted us to believe in ourselves to find eternal salvation

If he claimed to have read that in hebrew he's talking out of his backside, the New Testament was written in Greek.

but evil men who sought power and control used him and exploited his story and message for their own means. and they twisted his message and life, and they created what we now know as the Christian religion."

Anyone can read the bible for themselves - even in the original languages. Christianity is completely open, much as conspiracy crackpots might wish otherwise.

I'm honestly not meaning to drown myself in this stuff so much, it's just that it's so hard to believe in God now with all of these proofs of the Bible and similar things to be false. I mean, God said "Thou shalt not kill," but yet in the OT he killed so many people. One verse I cringe at:
Isaiah 13:16....

Then don't read it in isolation like that - its not a statement that God wishes children to be hurt, but a statement about how dreadful things will get unless Israel stops being more of a problem than the problem they are supposed to be the solution to. It's supposed to horrify. Because when the light of the world acts worse than the darkness the world is plunged into horror.

I read an article about the validity of the Bible, and I came up with another negative backfire

Try reading good scholarship, for a start. The article cited doesn't represent even good sceptical scholarship. Getting random articles off the internet is not a good way of understanding anything.

 

[joey_downunder]

I mean, God said "Thou shalt not kill," but yet in the OT he killed so many people.

Here's an explanation: Exodus 20:13 "You shall not murder. Do not murder is a very different meaning. God commanded Israelites to kill some people because He knew that if they did not do that, then those cultures/peoples would lead the Israelites into even more sin e.g. idolatry, immorality, witchcraft.

One verse I cringe at: Isaiah 13:16....

God was being matter-of-fact about what would happen to Babylon as a result of their sin. Would the Holy God ever lie?

I read an article about the validity of the Bible, and I came up with another negative backfire.....

That entry is just rhetoric. This very good website with a great amount of authorative evidence compiled by a professional librarian - not mere opinion - will ease your mind. http://www.tektonics.org/mainhub.html

If you want a proper library to get reliable information for your searches,

e.g. for Bible, Google "bible site:.edu".

 

[ittarter]

Great advice for googling, Joey. I've never tried the "colon-dot-extension" formula before.

Unfortunately very few specifics about ancient Israel's history exist, apart from the biblical narratives. These very narratives, as laureenoluv8 points out, were written centuries after the events they report, and not merely to provide a written record of what had happened, but to provide a disenfranchised people with a clear picture of who they were, who they are and what keeps them separate from other ethnicities and nationalities.

However, the author of the darkbible site supposes he has access to some alternative history, when in fact no such thing exists. If we don't go along with the biblical stories, we're pretty much in the dark about the whole matter. Generally speaking, the archaeological record is on the Bible's side, against darkbible's position.

 

[nChrist]

I don't waste my time with garbage sites like the one listed. I'll just say no thanks. This is a good reminder why newbies can't or shouldn't post links. In this case, they did anyway.

 

[ittarter]

I don't waste my time with garbage sites like the one listed. I'll just say no thanks. This is a good reminder why newbies can't or shouldn't post links. In this case, they did anyway.

Hmm. Then the no-linking rule presumes that people don't know what they're talking about until they've been around here for 100 posts?

I doubt it. I didn't like the rule when I was new to CF, and I don't like it anymore now. Plus, as you say, people find ways around it, irrespective of the quality of the site -- more to do with how dearly they want to say what they're trying to say.

Sorry about meandering from the OP.

 

[nChrist]

Hmm. Then the no-linking rule presumes that people don't know what they're talking about until they've been around here for 100 posts?

I doubt it. I didn't like the rule when I was new to CF, and I don't like it anymore now. Plus, as you say, people find ways around it, irrespective of the quality of the site -- more to do with how dearly they want to say what they're trying to say.

Sorry about meandering from the OP.

I would imagine that it reduces hit and run garbage links that don't belong on a Christian forum - links like this one. It might also help to control trolls with an agenda other than Christian. Regardless, I can certainly see why this rule is only common sense, and I would agree with it completely. If you don't, we can agree to disagree. In the meantime, they still have the rule and it was violated here.

 

[joey_downunder]

Great advice for googling, Joey. I've never tried the "colon-dot-extension" formula before.

It was something I learned on a recent uni course. The same can be done to limit searches a lot .org, .biz, or limit to countries e.g. site:.au, uk, ir, nz and so on.

I hope schools are teaching their kids the same type of thing. There is an awful lot of trash online....

As for the limiting of links to brand new users, if it stops some troublemakers from wasting everyone's time then it is a good policy to have.

 

[ittarter]

I hope schools are teaching their kids the same type of thing. There is an awful lot of trash online....

You'll be glad to know that I teach high school and will most definitely incorporate this into my research unit in the Fall semester.

 

[Insubres]

You have to remember there is an awful lot of propaganda out there against the Jews and Christians. Many people in the world, including many leftists here in the west are rabidly against both for no reason at all other than hatred. They'll use anything to do it, including spouting lies to make people stop believing in Christianity. They have no shame about it.

 

[contango]

First of all it was for good reason that this verse was penned:

Pro 4:23 NIV Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.

There is a tendency these days for people to believe things they read, because it was on the internet. All the internet does is lets anyone publish whatever they fancy without the need to either convince a publisher it's worth reading or stumping up enough cash to print physical books.

Looking at some specific points he made they just don't add up. First of all the New Testament (including the four gospels) were written in Greek so reading them in Hebrew immediately damages this author's credibility. If he's really got something so truly damaging to Christianity I'm sure he could find someone willing to publish his work without too much trouble.

I'm intrigued at this idea of the "evil men who sought power and control". Would they be the same people who preferred death to disowning the Jesus they loved? I don't dispute some groups that position themselves under the Christian umbrella are into the so-called prosperity gospel (usually prosperity for themselves while their flock give, give, and give some more) but how does that reflect badly on true Christianity? Take a look through the Bible and look at what Jesus said about serving God and serving Mammon.

Taking individual verses out of context can be a dangerous game. It reminds me of the game known as "Bible roulette" where people looking for guidance simply open the Bible and point at the page with their eyes closed, and whatever verse they hit they take as being divine guidance. Which is all well and good, unless you get Matt 27:5 (Judas went and hanged himself) followed by Luke 10:37 (go and do likewise).

In your case of Isaiah it's simply God warning his people what will happen if they don't obey him. Would a parent be uncaring if they warned their children of what would happen if they put fingers in a lightbulb socket, or run into the busy road without looking?

So finally on to the whole Old Testament as history concept. If the Bible is historically accurate then archaeology will support what it says. If it is inaccurate then sooner or later archaeology will pull something out of the ground that renders it implausible at best. If that happens we can be sure it will be all over the international news. The fact it hasn't happened doesn't mean it never will, but it is interesting to see that archaeologists believe they have found evidence that the Exodus truly took place, the Ten Commandments on stone tablets were real, I believe they found what is understood to be Nehemiah's Temple, and so on.

 

[laureenoluv8]

Thanks guys. I know I shouldn't have posted links like that, I'm sorry. Like I said, I didn't fully believe those articles, but they still bothered me a lot since there are so many out there.

I know in Proverbs 4:23 says to guard your heart for it is the wellspring of life...but today I was reading Jeremiah and on 17:9 it says The heart is deceitful above all things. Contradiction? Or was he referring to Judah's wicked nature?

As I kept reading I kept finding things in there that I didn't understand. Things that made no sense. I didn't understand why in 19:9 God said He would cause the people to eat their sons and daughters flesh. I know it was because those people never listened to God when He warned them of the future outcome of their wickedness, but why couldn't He have punished them a different way? I took it like God was getting back at those people because they didn't do what He knew was best. Like revenge, almost. But I know my judgement is way beyond flawed in these scriptures. My doubts are so strong, I'm worse than Thomas...

Am I taking the Bible way too literally? Or not literally enough? I get so confused every time I try to read it, even when I pray before I read it. I'm not even sure if I can consider myself a Christian anymore if I continue to take the Bible out of context. I just don't understand it most of the time...and I live in a house where I'm the only Christian, I have so many non-christian friends, and what they say just seems so logical. I worry if I'm wrong, but I should actually think "what if they're wrong?"

 

[contango]

Remember to take the Bible in context. If God warned a city that it would be besieged it is only natural that the warning would include some pretty unpleasant descriptions of what happens to a city under siege.

Our hearts need to be guarded, because (in this context at least) they define who we are. I wouldn't think of our heart in this context as being the bit in our chest that pumps the blood, more the part of us that defines who we are and what we stand for. Left to our own devices we are deceitful, we are wicked, we will put ourselves before others, we will do all sorts of things to others in order to get ahead.

So it's not a contradiction, it's just saying that unless we do guard our hearts from impure things we will end up polluted, deceitful etc.

 

[ebia]

Thanks guys. I know I shouldn't have posted links like that, I'm sorry. Like I said, I didn't fully believe those articles, but they still bothered me a lot since there are so many out there.

It's alright to link to stuff that is worrying you, but there is no sense in taking seriously everything that is posted on the internet - much of it is crackpot or just plain wrong.

I know in Proverbs 4:23 says to guard your heart for it is the wellspring of life...but today I was reading Jeremiah and on 17:9 it says The heart is deceitful above all things. Contradiction? Or was he referring to Judah's wicked nature?

Nobody - not even scripture - can say everything all of the time. There is a tension between the intrinsic created-very-good nature of all creation, including us, and the current marred-by-sin situation of that nature. Different bits of scripture will be talking about different aspects of that at different times.

As I kept reading I kept finding things in there that I didn't understand. Things that made no sense. I didn't understand why in 19:9 God said He would cause the people to eat their sons and daughters flesh.

When people turn from the living God horrific things result from that as the inevitable consquence - "I will cause..." is scripture's way of expressing that. It doesn't mean the outcome is literally an arbitrary punishment dreamed up by God, but is describing in prophetic language the full horror of what happens when God is sidelined in favour of false objects of worship.

Am I taking the Bible way too literally? Or not literally enough?

Not so much either as not taking full account of the genre of literature you are reading.

I get so confused every time I try to read it, even when I pray before I read it. I'm not even sure if I can consider myself a Christian anymore if I continue to take the Bible out of context. I just don't understand it most of the time...and I live in a house where I'm the only Christian, I have so many non-christian friends, and what they say just seems so logical. I worry if I'm wrong, but I should actually think "what if they're wrong?"

Christianity, including reading scripture, needs to be done in a community of people doing the same

 

[brinny]

Okay, I asked about the OT before on this site...but a few minutes ago I ran into a website (unintentionally) that blew my mind. I don't believe all of this stuff to be true, but...i don't know. here's the site:

I can't post the site..I don't have enough posts, but go on nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible4.htm


and I also heard about this guy who learned Hebrew and read the Un-translated Bible, and it appeared to be nothing like the one we read today. He said: "Jesus had said that anything he did, we could do and that salvation wasn't through him, but through the I Am, or the soul. In other words, Jesus wanted us to believe in ourselves to find eternal salvation. but evil men who sought power and control used him and exploited his story and message for their own means. and they twisted his message and life, and they created what we now know as the Christian religion."

I'm honestly not meaning to drown myself in this stuff so much, it's just that it's so hard to believe in God now with all of these proofs of the Bible and similar things to be false. I mean, God said "Thou shalt not kill," but yet in the OT he killed so many people. One verse I cringe at:
Isaiah 13:16....

I read an article about the validity of the Bible, and I came up with another negative backfire

"The Bible’s texts are divided into two parts, the Old and the New Testament. The Old Testament claims to tell the early history and religious myths of the Hebrew/Jewish people. Actually the Old Testament is a collection of propaganda texts, made by Jewish priests to give the Jewish people a great and glorious history they never had. Palestine, and the nomads living there, had up through history usually been occupied, ruled and influenced by the mighty civilisations surrounding them. By Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Greece and the Romans.

"The original petty state of Israel formed 884 BC existed for just a few decades until overtaken by the Assyrians. After being oppressed and ruled by their mighty neighbours for centuries the Jews developed a strong nationalism, and messianic prophecies and unrealistic dreams of political and military power flourished in the last centuries BC.

"In this atmosphere, the texts of the Old Testament emerged, and could suddenly 'prove' that the oppressed Jews once had had just as a glorious past as their mighty neighbours and occupants. The texts told the story of a powerful Israel and how they together with their tribal God Jehovah/Yahweh had won one glorious victory after victory against their many enemies.

"These megalomaniac fantasies, now told by the new written evidence, culminated in the presumptuous Jewish rebellions in the first century AD. The uprisings were swiftly crushed by the formidable Roman army, and after the last Jewish uprising in 70 AD, the Romans said enough is enough, and levelled Jerusalem and the Temple to the ground. It seem futile and strange that the Jews thought they could fight the mighty Romans, but fuelled by the stories of their glorious past and almighty God, and actually believing in the Messiah prophecies, counting on the warrior king Messiah should come from the skies with his divine army and wipe the Romans of the face of the earth. It was written that their God had given his chosen people glorious victories over superior enemies numerous times in the past, - pity that these stories were mere fiction. It must have been quite a disappointment for the survivors."

Is the Christian religion really just man's creation?

What do you believe? What is your source for guidance?

 

[joey_downunder]

Thanks guys. I know I shouldn't have posted links like that, I'm sorry. Like I said, I didn't fully believe those articles, but they still bothered me a lot since there are so many out there.

I know in Proverbs 4:23 says to guard your heart for it is the wellspring of life...but today I was reading Jeremiah and on 17:9 it says The heart is deceitful above all things. Contradiction? Or was he referring to Judah's wicked nature?

As I kept reading I kept finding things in there that I didn't understand. Things that made no sense. I didn't understand why in 19:9 God said He would cause the people to eat their sons and daughters flesh. I know it was because those people never listened to God when He warned them of the future outcome of their wickedness, but why couldn't He have punished them a different way? I took it like God was getting back at those people because they didn't do what He knew was best. Like revenge, almost. But I know my judgement is way beyond flawed in these scriptures. My doubts are so strong, I'm worse than Thomas...

Am I taking the Bible way too literally? Or not literally enough? I get so confused every time I try to read it, even when I pray before I read it. I'm not even sure if I can consider myself a Christian anymore if I continue to take the Bible out of context. I just don't understand it most of the time...and I live in a house where I'm the only Christian, I have so many non-christian friends, and what they say just seems so logical. I worry if I'm wrong, but I should actually think "what if they're wrong?"

Like others have said you need to keep everything in context.

Yes we have to protect our heart - and yes our [flesh] heart is wicked. That is not a contradiction.
Analyse the verse - Q: why do we need to protect our heart?
A: because our heart is naturally wicked. We need God's forgiveness to cleanse us of our sins (1 John 1:8) and His Holy Spirit to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh (Romans 8:1-17).

Q:How do we protect our heart?
A: We need to walk in faith with Jesus and accept his forgiveness. We need to aim to please God by obeying His commandments (John 14:15) and -again - confess our sins and trust that He has forgiven us.

Q: What can we do to protect our heart?
A: We need to be transformed by the renewing of the mind (Romans 12:1-2) We need to identify our personal weaknesses and our pattern of sins. We need to avoid situations, people and any other factors that lead us into sin (Proverbs 4:14-19, 1 Corinthians 10:12-13), and confess our sins when we do sin against God.

e.g. for me - I have to watch what I see on TV and even what I read in the news. Negative stories affect me a lot because I have a very sensitive nature and they can really get to me.

It sounds like you need to keep away from those evangelising atheists
and get some good christian friends who are mature in their faith - have head knowledge as well as personal faith - ASAP.

Do you have the time to listen to or read good sermons online? If you have a difficult passage, then google it making sure you get a good christian website that takes the Bible study very seriously.

 

[nChrist]

Joey_Downunder gave you excellent advice, and I agree completely.

Human beings are much like a computer in terms of what you put in it - garbage in - garbage out. It's really just this simple - stay away from garbage, and don't allow garbage into your home. On the other side of the coin with the computer analogy - good information in - good information out - the computer can only be as good as the information you put in it.

Good News!
The Holy Bible is the WORD OF GOD!
God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit - The Creator Of All Things!
"GOD'S GRACE" and "OUR WORKS"
American Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1623 to 1863 )
American Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1961 to 2001 )
JESUS CHRIST - VERY GOD - LORD - SAVIOUR - MESSIAH - KING
Are You Lost?
Messianic Prophecy Fulfilled By Jesus Christ - Part 1 of 4
Messianic Prophecy Fulfilled By Jesus Christ - Part 2 of 4
Messianic Prophecy Fulfilled By Jesus Christ - Part 3 of 4
Messianic Prophecy Fulfilled By Jesus Christ - Part 4 of 4
The Word Of God​

 

[addo]

I'm honestly not meaning to drown myself in this stuff so much, it's just that it's so hard to believe in God now with all of these proofs of the Bible and similar things to be false. I mean, God said "Thou shalt not kill," but yet in the OT he killed so many people. One verse I cringe at:
Isaiah 13:16....

The commandment says "Thou shall not murder", and not "Thou shall no kill". To kill is to take someones or something's life. But to murder is to take someone's life (by the way, if I'm not mistaken, murder doesn't apply to animals, but just humans, so you cannot murder and animal... I think) in a specific way in specific circumstances. In other words, to murder is to kill, but killing is not always murder: it has a wider meaning. All murder is killing but not all killing is murder and not all killing is unlawful.

-

-

Hebraic Insight…

The Jewish sages note that the word “ratsakh” applies only to illegal killing (e.g., premeditated murder or manslaughter) — and is never used in the administration of justice or for killing in war. Hence the KJV translation as “thou shalt not kill” is too broad.

Since man is made in the image of God, his life is infinitely precious — only God Himself has the right to give and take life. In the Mishnah it is written, “Why was only one man (i.e., Adam) created by God? — to teach that whoever takes a single life destroys thereby a whole world.”

But murder can be figurative as well as literal. The Talmud notes that shaming another publicly is like murder, since the shame causes the blood to leave the face. Moreover, gossip or slander are considered murderous to the dignity of man. The Pirkei Avot (Ethics of the Fathers) states, “The evil tongue slays three persons: the utterer of the evil, the listener, and the one spoken about…” The Lord Jesus also linked the ideas of our words and attitudes with murder (see Matt. 15:19).

“Thou Shalt Not Kill”
— Ex. 20:13

Source

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

​

I hope it helps.
​

 

[Light_Bearer]

Hmm. Then the no-linking rule presumes that people don't know what they're talking about until they've been around here for 100 posts?

I doubt it. I didn't like the rule when I was new to CF, and I don't like it anymore now. Plus, as you say, people find ways around it, irrespective of the quality of the site -- more to do with how dearly they want to say what they're trying to say.

Sorry about meandering from the OP.

I have to agree with ittarter the rule is meaningless... besides if i really wanted to be able to do that id do what most of you do on here and start a post in one of the game rooms called the number game and post till my hearts content or go start a rep 1 thread and get unlimmited reps if thats not as dishonest as it gets im quite shocked at how some people bend rules to have thier OP worth more on this site.

 

[jonathonbyrd]

@Laureen, have a look at this website godandscience.org/apologetics/authenticity.html It should help set you straight on many things.

But let me answer all of your questions with a question. "If God created this infinite universe and tells us that He also sustains it, but He could not even sustain a finite book, then why would you care to serve Him anyway? If He's not capable of sustaining a book that He claimed to inspire."

What I'm asking is simple. God says that he's in control, He says that His Word is the Truth and the world is full of lies. The bible is at war with the world, so doesn't it make sense that the first thing the world is going to try and do is destroy the credibility of the Bible.

Here's what I encourage you to do. Go ask God yourself. Spend an hour a day for the next two months meditating in a quiet space praying to Him and pouring out your heart. He says that if you seek Him diligently, He will meet with you. So if He is a True God, then he will do what He says.

I will pray that He come and meet with you and not keep you waiting.

Understand that the bible is the Truth and gives such divine answers, not even today's scholars can understand them.